ATEM Mini - USB-C Output Contrast and Delay

Questions about ATEM Switchers, Camera Converter and everything live!
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rstreber

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Re: ATEM Mini - USB-C Output Contrast and Delay

PostFri Feb 12, 2021 8:56 pm

Any input on whether this issue is a problem when recording Isos via USB C? I'm assuming not, but it would be great to hear from experience one way or other.
Ryan Streber
Oktaven Audio
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Steve Kanefsky

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Re: ATEM Mini - USB-C Output Contrast and Delay

PostFri Feb 12, 2021 9:23 pm

rstreber wrote:Any input on whether this issue is a problem when recording Isos via USB C? I'm assuming not, but it would be great to hear from experience one way or other.
I don't believe I've seen any reports of similar issues when recording directly to an attached disk via USB-C. Just unrelated issues of compatibility with some SSD drives which seem to have been resolved in the latest firmware updates.

There have been some issues with recording via USB-C to an app like QuickTime on the computer but I don't think that's what you were asking about.
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rstreber

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Re: ATEM Mini - USB-C Output Contrast and Delay

PostFri Feb 12, 2021 9:42 pm

Thanks! Yes, I'm just curious about Iso recording specifically, and it sounds like there wouldn't be an issue there from what I'm understanding.
Ryan Streber
Oktaven Audio
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Hindrik

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Re: ATEM Mini - USB-C Output Contrast and Delay

PostThu Feb 18, 2021 9:24 am

Working with the ATEM Television Studio HD has been a blast so far. It's way easier to rig everything up in a nice portable 19" rack.

does the Television Studio HD has two outputs?
one for the multiview and one for the clean pgm output?


As jrandom mentioned, yes it does. Additionally, all SDI outputs (5 to 8) send a PGM out as well. Plus the SDI Auxilary can be configured as you wish (which is obviously what an AUX is meant to do, but still).

Just keep in mind that you need to maintain the same resolution and framerate across ALL of your devices, including multiview. There are additional output settings for multiview, but they are very limited (e.g. 1080i, which hurt your eyes without a deinterlacer). I purchase an UpDownCross HD just to be able to convert signals when necessary.

BlackMagic just released the ATEM Mini Extreme series, and to me they are just a joke. Sure, they have another HDM output which allows for a clean HDMI output, but with that many HDMI inputs, you are never going to keep the thing flat on the table. Also, SDI is the way to go. HDMI is just way to vulnerable if you use the device on different locations.
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Hindrik

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Re: ATEM Mini - USB-C Output Contrast and Delay

PostThu Feb 18, 2021 9:26 am

rstreber wrote:Any input on whether this issue is a problem when recording Isos via USB C? I'm assuming not, but it would be great to hear from experience one way or other.


This is not an issue since the recording uses the H.264 encoder. Also, it's not really a problem of bandwith with the USB-C output. It's a problem concerning color range. Just like Atomos, BlackMagic should find a way to "Legalize" the color range.
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Steve Kanefsky

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Re: ATEM Mini - USB-C Output Contrast and Delay

PostThu Feb 18, 2021 9:36 am

Hindrik wrote:BlackMagic just released the ATEM Mini Extreme series, and to me they are just a joke. Sure, they have another HDM output which allows for a clean HDMI output, but with that many HDMI inputs, you are never going to keep the thing flat on the table. Also, SDI is the way to go. HDMI is just way to vulnerable if you use the device on different locations.
I would love to see an equivalent to the Extreme with SDI and that was rack-mountable, but still the Extreme is head and shoulders above the Television Studio HD which is pretty much completely obsolete now. The recording and streaming capabilities, ability to mix and match resolutions, two upstream keyers, SuperSource, etc. are much more important than the type of cabling you have to deal with or whether you can rack mount it or not. There are lots of slim and flexible HDMI cables available and if you're using BMPCC cameras you pretty much need HDMI anyway (but you can always use SDI converters if you need or want to).
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jrandom

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Re: ATEM Mini - USB-C Output Contrast and Delay

PostThu Feb 18, 2021 9:27 pm

I am no SDI evangelist (well maybe just a little) any "reliable" connector that doesn't lock in place is knocked down notches IMO. HDMI are fragile and xNum more likely (type a, what 19 wires?) to fail than a coaxial SDI, not to mention expensive by comparison, nor are they field repairable/buildable/chainable.

We have a modestly large video wall for presentations controlled by a Creston and it is all HDMI, it is terrible. People abuse cables/connectors, HDCP issues after updates, long HDMI runs, man I hate it, not just because of HDMI but it is a big part of it. We were blowing through so many user-to-system HDMI cables I ultimately ended up integrating a Barco Clickshare, seems people deal with USB an order of magnitude easier than HDMI.

Anyway... I really don't need or want another ATEM mini (see HDMI rant above), I would really just like the one I spent $1000 on to work a little more like a production switcher, that it loosely claims to be :) all it needs is a multi-view and a clean out to work at the same time, bunches of people here talk and have requested it.
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Steve Kanefsky

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Re: ATEM Mini - USB-C Output Contrast and Delay

PostThu Feb 18, 2021 9:36 pm

I agree completely about the superiority of SDI. Much better connectors (smaller, locking, etc.), easy to run very long lengths, no handshaking or copy protection issues to worry about, etc. The one downside is that they're unidirectional so you need two cables instead of one for every camera if you want to do camera control.

Still the advantages of SDI aren't even close to enough to make me choose something like the Television Studio HD over the ATEM Extreme ISO given all the awesome features in the latter. No doubt BMD will eventually come out with a Television Studio Extreme or something that provides all the capabilities of the ATEM Extreme ISO for SDI cameras but without requiring a whole rack full of ATEMs and Hyperdecks plus a 2nd mortgage, upgraded HVAC system, and a pair of earplugs :)
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jrandom

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Re: ATEM Mini - USB-C Output Contrast and Delay

PostFri Feb 19, 2021 2:42 am

I don't disagree! It is why I picked up a mini ISO Pro, it is sooo close it just doesn't quite get me there, I ended up and am waiting on a TV studio hd. The mini just seemed like a dreamy compact on the road solution that I could give to some of our less technical folks and get a quick and easy up and running, and it almost is.
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Hindrik

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Re: ATEM Mini - USB-C Output Contrast and Delay

PostFri Feb 19, 2021 7:40 am

I mean my experience wasn’t all bad. But since I do a lof of visual processing on a Mac, I need to capture the PGM. The mini has only been able to do this over USB-C, and that is just a terrible result, which is what this topic is about.

Still, I wouldn’t go for the ATEM Mini Extreme. Mini jacks and HDMI cables, no way.
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jrandom

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Re: ATEM Mini - USB-C Output Contrast and Delay

PostFri Feb 19, 2021 5:10 pm

I honestly thought I could utilize a Hyperdeck mini through USB-C. I actually thought I had read that somewhere. I probably misinterpreted what I read and just made the assumption based how connectable the existing BDM pipelines already are.
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RoboKap

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Re: ATEM Mini - USB-C Output Contrast and Delay

PostSun Feb 21, 2021 3:11 pm

Has anyone installed the 8.6 Update? Any difference? I hate that you have to uninstall and reinstall the software to do an update on PC.
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Kumapower

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Re: ATEM Mini - USB-C Output Contrast and Delay

PostMon Apr 19, 2021 7:23 pm

I just updated to 8.6.1 and tested, the problem is still not resolved
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Bill999

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Re: ATEM Mini - USB-C Output Contrast and Delay

PostSun Apr 25, 2021 2:32 pm

Does anyone know if this issue also applies to the ATEM Mini Extreme? I am trying to understand if I would need to buy a HDMI capture device like the UltraStudio 3G to get around this for streaming as a UVC webcam.

Thanks
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timfurnish

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Re: ATEM Mini - USB-C Output Contrast and Delay

PostTue May 11, 2021 6:53 pm

I just bought the ATEM Mini Pro ISO and am having the same issue with USB-C out having too high contrast compared to HDMI out. Has this been fixed yet in a firmware update or even possible to do so?
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ChrisSpiegl

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Re: ATEM Mini - USB-C Output Contrast and Delay

PostThu May 13, 2021 3:57 pm

I just received my ATEM Mini and I am blown away as to what it can do… but I am also disappointed that something as fundamental as the webcam output is this flawed! WHY? And no fix in sight?

I really hope that this form thread will be taken seriously sometime soon and this issue will be fixed!

The current state basically means one is forced to run the signal through OBS for the Full to Partial conversion before being able to use it in Skype, Zoom, or other applications.

Please BMD Team.
Creating Videos at youtube.com/ChrisSpiegl
Working on a 2017 MacBook Pro 15" with an LG Ultra-wide Monitor
Creating with the Canon EOS R · Atomos Ninja V · Zoom F6 · ATEM Mini
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Mike Wallis

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Re: ATEM Mini - USB-C Output Contrast and Delay

PostFri May 14, 2021 7:33 am

I'm having a slightly different problem but it may be related.

I've found that both the hdmi & streaming outputs on my Mini Pro suffer from crushed blacks & clipped whites when using external hdmi sources such a PC or external generic media player. I'm running the latest firmware 8.6.1

I have noticed that if you select "camera 1 direct" from the output menu drop down menu in the ATEM Software control the clipping disappears. I can only assume that this bypasses all the internal processing in the Mini. Also if you bring the calibration chart into the mini via the built in media player it's looks fine.

After a bit of research I'd say it's a color space issue between the devices: 0 - 255 vs 16 - 235.

For testing purposes I used this grey scale monitor calibration chart.

Below is the Input video being fed from my Mac or media player

input.png
input.png (299.88 KiB) Viewed 214 times


Below is the Output video from the Mini Pro

output.png
output.png (511.6 KiB) Viewed 214 times
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Howard Roll

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Re: ATEM Mini - USB-C Output Contrast and Delay

PostFri May 14, 2021 4:24 pm

It is expected that the output of the AMP would be 16-235. This is a video (YCrCb) switcher not a graphics (RGB) switcher. The amount of compatibility issues would be tenfold if the output were full range 0-255. Windows has a manual correction for 16-235/0-255, OSX is cross your fingers and hope.

What happens if you plug the Mac into input 2?

Good Luck
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