ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

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RyanJaffe

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ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostMon Jun 01, 2020 5:02 pm

Hello Forum,

Need to send A/V from ATEM Mini Pro over ethernet (through router), from one room to be viewed in another, without streaming out to a cloud service, keeping it on an internal LAN. Wondering if ATEM's RTMP stream can be sent directly to VLC app on an AppleTV gen 3 or 4, or if I'd need a computer to run a streaming server on the network.

FYI: plan is to use ATEM's HDMI for Multiview, and USB for disk recording, so that leaves the ethernet RTMP stream as my only other output.

I'd need help with:
-ATEM's Streaming.xml modifications
-How to configure the VLC app on the Apple TV.
-Recommendations on (Free?) streaming server software and setting it up (if it's even necessary) (probably for windows 10, maybe a MacMini.)

This is for a church that is going back into meeting live after COVID-19 quarantine, but with limited sanctuary capacity for social distancing, so they need an overflow room. There's hardly any budget for this so trying to cobble it together on the cheap using existing hardware at hand.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you.
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Andrew J

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostMon Jun 01, 2020 5:57 pm

This wouldn't be too awefully hard to setup. I don't know of any way to do it without a server in the middle though.

I use a "raspberry pi" computer for the server and it does fine for passing along the RTMP stream.
For setup I followed these instructions https://www.itsfullofstars.de/2020/01/n ... r-for-obs/

Instead of their portion on setting up obs, you would modify the streaming.xml file on the Atem mini pro.

the streaming.xml file is pretty easy to understand if you have a little background with xml to start with. Basically, you can just copy the section for facebook, for instance, and then you will add your local server address instead of the facebook address and change the name. (you could just overwrite the facebook section if you don't think you would start streaming to facebook)

VLC can then open the RTMP stream on the apple TV
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RyanJaffe

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostMon Jun 01, 2020 6:46 pm

Thanks Andrew.

Total Noob to this RTMP stream technology. Trying to find info on the difference between what the ATEM is outputting vs. a server that is rebroadcasting (if I even conceptualize that correctly?)

I was hoping someone would tell me it could be done simply, without a need for a Streaming Server since I'm only sending to the one location. I suppose it would be a bit more future proof if I had a server running and could receive the stream in multiple locations around the campus anyway.

Do you know, is the Raspberry Pi able to re-encode and send to multiple online services as well? (In case, in a week or two I'm... SURPRISE!...asked to do that as well?) Or is it simply passing the stream through?

I've come across Nginx stream server on windows and am looking into that now too.

Input much appreciated. Thanks again.
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Roman Pytkin Pekarek

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostMon Jun 01, 2020 11:16 pm

Just use OBS .. USB output of ATEM into computer with OBS .. Create unicast/multicast stream for computers with VLC and record onto komputer ..
http://www.media-planet.sk
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RyanJaffe

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostTue Jun 02, 2020 12:04 am

Roman,

Thanks for the input. I'm a little out of my league. Not sure how to do that in OBS and also don't know if there will be a computer in proximity to the ATEM to do that. But if there is one accessible, can you guide me on how to set up recording and Uni/Multicast streaming simultaneously. I'm a complete OBS and streaming noob.

I appreciate any help.
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostTue Jun 02, 2020 1:00 am

The RTMP protocol has two different modes of operation: RTMP Push and RTMP Pull.

RTMP Push is generally used for sending live streaming video to a streaming platform or content delivery network (CDN) for distribution to a large number of different viewers. This mode of operation requires a target server to receive the RTMP stream that is being pushed. RTMP push is what is supported by the ATEM Mini Pro's built-in streaming.

RTMP Pull is generally used by end user applications and devices to retrieve and view live streaming video (often delivered from a streaming platform or CDN as mentioned above). RTMP Pull had built-in support to the Flash player so it was more common for viewing streams when Flash-based video playback was more prevalent. With the switch to HTML5 based video playback support in the browser, RTMP Pull is not being used as much any more, although certain applications still support it. VLC supports playback of network video streams via RTMP Pull.

You can read more about the differences between RTMP Push and Pull here:
https://telvue.com/knowledgebase/add-an-rtmp-stream/

Since the ATEM Mini Pro only supports RTMP Push and VLC only supports RTMP Pull, it requires an intermediate server to receive incoming RTMP stream from the ATEM Mini and distribute it out to a client viewer application like VLC.

As suggested in the link Andrew mentioned, you can use something like the free Nginx server as the intermediate RTMP server (although it will require a bit of setup). It is possible to run Nginx on Windows and MacOS in addition to a Linux-based OS like on the Raspberry Pi.

A second option as Roman mentioned is to use the USB webcam output from the ATEM Mini into another streaming application like OBS. By using the custom ffmpeg output option in OBS it is possible to get OBS to stream using other protocols beyond RTMP push, so you can use a UDP-based protocol such as RTP for example, which doesn't require an intermediate server. More details on such a setup are described in this page:
https://obsproject.com/forum/resources/ ... g-obs.455/
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Andrew J

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostTue Jun 02, 2020 2:51 pm

I use a "Raspberry Pi 3B" at our church, which is fine for sending the stream from the ATEM mini pro to two different streaming services.

It does ok on re-encoding the stream to a lower bandwidth, but I would call it borderline and it will really depend on how how the bandwidth is coming in and what quality you want coming out.

It really struggles if you ask it to do anything to transform the stream, like changing resolution or applying effects.

The current version is "Raspberry Pi 4" which has a faster processor and more ram, but you are still looking at a system which costs about $50 to setup, and I don't know how much better it would be.

OBS is an option, especially to start a single stream and give it the resolution and bandwidth you might want, but you would probably be connecting by usb C to get the feed into the computer and would need to be close.

If you had another computer that could be somewhere on the network, you could use the same process of the raspberry pi with whatever hardware you wanted. The setup would be almost the same, except you would start by installing Debian or another linux type operating system. There are probably free versions available for windows, but I haven't searched that. Either way, you would need a server that can be booted up and ready the entire time you might run the stream. The Raspberry Pi I use it sitting under the desk and has no monitor or keyboard hooked up to it. It powers on and off from the same power strip the ATEM mini is on and hasn't had any problems that way.
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RyanJaffe

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostThu Jun 11, 2020 12:18 am

Thanks for everyone's help. Here's what I ended up getting going, in case it's helpful to anyone else.

I was able to procure a 5 year old Core i5 HP that we installed Ubuntu on, then I followed this tutorial to compile the nginx streaming server:

https://www.nginx.com/blog/video-stream ... ith-nginx/

I set it up to auto start the server when the box is booted up (it won't be on all the time.).

I also installed VLC on that same box.

In the ATEM streaming.xml I duped the YouTube chunk and renamed the copy "NginX restream", and set the IP address of the Ubuntu streaming server.

It's all on a private network and only needs to be played in one remote location on the church campus, so, that server is also the player which feeds a projector via HDMI and a sound system via analog audio connections to play in that room. VLC just looks to:

rtmp://localhost/live/(streamkey set up in the ATEM control software - I went with "tv" to keep it short.)

I did test this whole thing at home with VLC running on an Apple TV, my iPhone 6Plus (old, I know), various Macs and Windows PC, all at the same time. At one point I was watching 7 devices across my home Gigabit network. Because I'm not worried about outbound bandwidth to a streaming platform I actually chose the 35Mbps recording stream setting in the ATEM software, since I'll be recording to a harddrive locally from the MiniPro's USB-C capability.

Interestingly, if you follow the tutorial and accompanying video you'll see VLC receiving on RTMP, HLS, and DASH. For me, I only tried HLS and RTMP. HLS (HTTP) I experienced a 25 to 35 second delay across all the devices regardless of how many were pulling at the same time. However, when I switched over to RTMP (pull) the delay dropped to less than 2 seconds. I'm guessing it had something to do with the server's speed in rewrapping the stream into a new protocol.?

It wasn't as hard as I thought it was going to be, but thanks again to all the responders on this thread who got me going down this track.
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Roman Pytkin Pekarek

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostFri Jun 12, 2020 12:19 am

no .. HLS stream defaulty use 10 sec chunks and player need 3 chunks to start play .. So there is delay 20-30 sec ..
http://www.media-planet.sk
http://www.stonepp.tv
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RyanJaffe

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostFri Jun 12, 2020 11:44 pm

Roman Pytkin Pekarek wrote:no .. HLS stream defaulty use 10 sec chunks and player need 3 chunks to start play .. So there is delay 20-30 sec ..


Thanks Roman. I knew someone would explain the delay.

In VLC I'm opening a network stream and entering:

rtmp://[IP.address.of.server]/live/[ATEMstreamkey] and VLC is playing my stream with very short lag.

Any disadvantage to doing this over using hls/http MRL?
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Roman Pytkin Pekarek

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostFri Jun 12, 2020 11:51 pm

Ryan : yes . Because RTMP have not junks like HLS stream ..

HLS stream is compatible with more platforms .. WEb browsers, mobiles/tablets , etc .. RTMP stream is for flash or devices/softwares compatible ..
http://www.media-planet.sk
http://www.stonepp.tv
http://tally.pytkin.sk
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Wilfom

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostSat Jun 20, 2020 4:38 pm

Hi,

I am searching for a similar solution. But my idea is to use an Android tablet with HDMI-output.

Are there any apps which work as an RTSP-receiving server, which can also show the received stream as fullscreen video? This should be the most simple solution. Thanks!
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostMon Jun 22, 2020 10:31 pm

Wilfom wrote:Hi, I am searching for a similar solution. But my idea is to use an Android tablet with HDMI-output.

Are there any apps which work as an RTSP-receiving server, which can also show the received stream as fullscreen video? This should be the most simple solution. Thanks!
There is a VLC player for Android that should be able to play RTSP streams:
https://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-android.html

This won't help with direct connection to the RTMP Push output from ATEM Mini Pro, however, since for that you need an intermediate RTMP server.
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Wilfom

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostTue Jun 23, 2020 7:27 am

Dave Del Vecchio wrote:This won't help with direct connection to the RTMP Push output from ATEM Mini Pro, however, since for that you need an intermediate RTMP server.


Yes, this was my question. Is there any RTSP-server for Android?
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostTue Jun 23, 2020 10:23 pm

Wilfom wrote:
Dave Del Vecchio wrote:This won't help with direct connection to the RTMP Push output from ATEM Mini Pro, however, since for that you need an intermediate RTMP server.

Yes, this was my question. Is there any RTSP-server for Android?
Not entirely sure what you are asking. RTMP and RTSP are two different protocols. For RTSP, you can use VLC for Android as I mentioned.

For RTMP, things are less straightforward. There were some efforts to build an Nginx server for Android (Nginx includes an RTMP server module), but I'm not sure how far they got, or whether they are being actively maintained:
https://github.com/sam0x17/nginx-android-app
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Wilfom

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostWed Jun 24, 2020 7:44 am

OK, did not know the difference between RTSP and RTMP. So I am searching for an RTMP-server which runs on Android. Then my AMP could stream to my Android tablet and I don't have to build a RaspberryPi.

Is there any solution of this kind?
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostWed Jun 24, 2020 9:30 am

Wilfom wrote:OK, did not know the difference between RTSP and RTMP. So I am searching for an RTMP-server which runs on Android. Then my AMP could stream to my Android tablet and I don't have to build a RaspberryPi.

Is there any solution of this kind?
I'm not aware of any turnkey RTMP server implementations for Android. Nginx has an RTMP server module, but it is written in C and usually applications written in C require rooting the device to get them to run in Android.

I think probably using a Raspberry Pi is going to be easier to get working as it is a more open environment.
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Wilfom

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostWed Jun 24, 2020 9:52 am

Thanks. But building and maintaining a Pi would be a too large solution. As Android runs out of the box and is already in place as a tablet this would be the perfect solution.

Perhaps there is another way to get the things done?
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andyless

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostThu Nov 05, 2020 8:33 pm

Thanks to all for the good posts. I have a similar problem. I have the atem ProISO and need the USBC for recording the 5 ISO streams and the HDMI out for the preview. That leaves only the network port. For streaming to youtube no problem but if I want to use Teams or Webex this does not work. My hope was that I can grap the stream from the atem and my PC presents it as a webcam that Teams/Webex recognices.
If I understand correctly VLC is not able to deliver this, does anyone elso knows some other pice of software which can grab RTMP push and present it as webcam input?
The workaround would be the BM streambox with an elgato cam link (which is a very expensive workaround)
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RolfBirlenbach

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostFri Mar 19, 2021 6:09 am

Hello,

I use the atem mini iso for interal streaming to VLC.

I use the Mona Server as a wondows service under Win 10 and VLC.

Download Mona fro Github

Download VLC fom videolan



Configuration:

edit the streaming.xml

Add an entry like this and change to your IP of your PC

<service>
<name>Local Atem Streaming</name>
<servers>
<server>
<name>Default</name>
<url>rtmp://192.168.2.66/atem</url>
</server>
</servers>
<profiles>
<profile>
<name>Streaming High</name>
<config resolution="1080p" fps="60">
<bitrate>9000000</bitrate>
<audio-bitrate>128000</audio-bitrate>
<keyframe-interval>2</keyframe-interval>
</config>
<config resolution="1080p" fps="30">
<bitrate>6000000</bitrate>
<audio-bitrate>128000</audio-bitrate>
<keyframe-interval>2</keyframe-interval>
</config>
</profile>
<profile>
<name>Streaming Medium</name>
<config resolution="1080p" fps="60">
<bitrate>7000000</bitrate>
<audio-bitrate>128000</audio-bitrate>
<keyframe-interval>2</keyframe-interval>
</config>
<config resolution="1080p" fps="30">
<bitrate>4500000</bitrate>
<audio-bitrate>128000</audio-bitrate>
<keyframe-interval>2</keyframe-interval>
</config>
</profile>
<profile>
<name>Streaming Low</name>
<config resolution="1080p" fps="60">
<bitrate>4500000</bitrate>
<audio-bitrate>128000</audio-bitrate>
<keyframe-interval>2</keyframe-interval>
</config>
<config resolution="1080p" fps="30">
<bitrate>3000000</bitrate>
<audio-bitrate>128000</audio-bitrate>
<keyframe-interval>2</keyframe-interval>
</config>
</profile>
</profiles>
</service>


Make a 2 subdirectories (\atem\key) under ....\MonaServer_Win64\www\

like this
....\MonaServer_Win64\www\atem\key

Start the MonaServer as Administrator

Start in the BMC Atem mini control panel the Livestream OnAIR with the settings

Plattform: Local Atem Streaming
Server: default
Key: key (Name of the subdirectory unter ....\MonaServer_Win64\www\atem\key)
Quality: Streaminh High


Open VLC - Media - Network
rtmp://192.168.2.66/atem/key

You can use more than one VLC client.

Best regards

Rolf
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Wilfom

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostThu Mar 25, 2021 2:35 pm

RolfBirlenbach wrote:I use the Mona Server as a wondows service under Win 10 and VLC.
Hi, thanks, this works great.

I get a latency of 1s. Is there any option to reduce the latency?

And is there an Android App like Monaserver?
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Scott Ryan

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostThu Mar 25, 2021 5:20 pm

Seems like this could have been done way easier using OBS and outputting NDI with hardly any delay. There's even the NDI Monitor TV app for Apple TV, although it's $100. Alternative would be to just connect a laptop or similar PC and run the free NDI tools with NDI video monitor.
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Wilfom

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostThu Mar 25, 2021 8:17 pm

Scott Ryan wrote:Seems like this could have been done way easier using OBS and outputting NDI with hardly any delay.

Sure, but if I cannot use the USB-C port, because it is used for recording, this is not an option.
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Scott Ryan

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostThu Mar 25, 2021 9:44 pm

Wilfom wrote:
Scott Ryan wrote:Seems like this could have been done way easier using OBS and outputting NDI with hardly any delay.

Sure, but if I cannot use the USB-C port, because it is used for recording, this is not an option.
Usb-c hub?
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Wilfom

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostFri Mar 26, 2021 10:23 am

Scott Ryan wrote:Usb-c hub?

That does not work. You can only choose between webcam or USB-recording. Both at the same time is impossible.
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RolfBirlenbach

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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostSun Apr 04, 2021 6:26 am

I think the Mona2Server is quick and fast without any installation.

no other hardware is needed and runs on a small PC also.

I use this for streaming of a webinar to more to many users.
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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostTue Apr 13, 2021 11:23 pm

Andrew J wrote:I use a "Raspberry Pi 3B" at our church, which is fine for sending the stream from the ATEM mini pro to two different streaming services.

It does ok on re-encoding the stream to a lower bandwidth, but I would call it borderline and it will really depend on how how the bandwidth is coming in and what quality you want coming out.

It really struggles if you ask it to do anything to transform the stream, like changing resolution or applying effects.

The current version is "Raspberry Pi 4" which has a faster processor and more ram, but you are still looking at a system which costs about $50 to setup, and I don't know how much better it would be.

OBS is an option, especially to start a single stream and give it the resolution and bandwidth you might want, but you would probably be connecting by usb C to get the feed into the computer and would need to be close.

If you had another computer that could be somewhere on the network, you could use the same process of the raspberry pi with whatever hardware you wanted. The setup would be almost the same, except you would start by installing Debian or another linux type operating system. There are probably free versions available for windows, but I haven't searched that. Either way, you would need a server that can be booted up and ready the entire time you might run the stream. The Raspberry Pi I use it sitting under the desk and has no monitor or keyboard hooked up to it. It powers on and off from the same power strip the ATEM mini is on and hasn't had any problems that way.


Hello! Couple days ago, I've configured nginx and streamed from atem over local network, and then I've find this post about raspberry pi re-encoding stream. I want to use usb c of atem mini pro for recording stream in hiperdeck mid quality, but it is to high bitrate for streaming, so I need to re-encode it to lower bitrate and stream it on youtube. Also, as I've understood, both this steams will accessible from local network. Can raspberry pi do such encoding?
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Re: ATEM RTMP over LAN to AppleTV running VLC app?

PostSun May 16, 2021 6:52 am

Wilfom wrote:
Scott Ryan wrote:Seems like this could have been done way easier using OBS and outputting NDI with hardly any delay.

Sure, but if I cannot use the USB-C port, because it is used for recording, this is not an option.


Very useful thread, thanks all.

BirdDog Flex In looks like a neat HDMI->NDI option. Kiloview also make them Various tools to watch NDI or use it as source in. Also https://livemind.tv/recorder will rewrap the NDI as a growing mov for edit while ingest. Allegedly. I haven't tried any of this yet.
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