4k Pocket Softer Than Studio 4k

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almo100

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4k Pocket Softer Than Studio 4k

PostFri Jun 04, 2021 6:36 pm

At our church we have 3 Studio 4k cameras that we use for live streaming the service. We also have a Pocket 4k center locked off camera for a wide shot. I noticed though that the Pocket was much softer than the Studio 4k cameras.

I swapped lenses to make sure that was not the issue, then I switched the Pocket from 1080 to 4k and turned on sharpening to high and it made a little difference but still softer than I would like. We have the Pocket 4k HDMI output going into a decimator converter to get a 1080i 59.94 signal that goes to an ATEM ME2 for switching.

So the question is, do I have an issue with that Pocket 4k or is this just the way the Pocket is designed, to have more of a "cinematic" look?

Thank you in advance.
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BennoZ

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Re: 4k Pocket Softer Than Studio 4k

PostSat Jun 12, 2021 10:46 pm

The Pocket is not softer, I think it’s because of your decimator. You can try to do it without, the Atem converts the signal. You can also try to set the Atem to P instead if i, so the studio camera’s will be converted to progressive.
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Sander Vreuls

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Re: 4k Pocket Softer Than Studio 4k

PostSun Jun 13, 2021 12:32 pm

Cinema camera's generally don't have sharpening in them, while video camera's do.. In cinema any sharpening is usually done in post.. That might be why..
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Howard Roll

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Re: 4k Pocket Softer Than Studio 4k

PostSun Jun 13, 2021 12:33 pm

It shouldn’t be the interlace, there’s no resolution loss going in this direction, the process is simply splitting frames into fields. If anything the Pocket should be sharper on anything other than a CRT.

The 2 ME doesn’t have scalers on the input so the Decimator is necessary for 1080i, which begs the question, why use interlaced when every source and destination is progressive?

Couple possibilities;

Is the P4k shooting 60 or 30? 30 will de-interlace perfectly, 60 will require interpolation. Likewise 30p to 59.94i will require scaling. Make sure it’s 29.97p to 59.94i or 30p to 60i to avoid interpolation, scaling, and softness.

The P4k is known for having inconsistent FFD which can drastically affect the performance of wide angle lenses.

“…….cinematic look”. The P4k should be using video gamma, or a LUT to normalize the footage into Rec709 space. The lack of contrast in log can create the appearance of softness.

The Studio cameras use a smaller sensor 13mm vs 19mm and are only using the center of the lens. Uncorrected MFT zooms will fare better on the smaller sensor.

Good Luck
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BennoZ

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Re: 4k Pocket Softer Than Studio 4k

PostSun Jun 13, 2021 1:36 pm

Sander Vreuls wrote:Cinema camera's generally don't have sharpening in them, while video camera's do.. In cinema any sharpening is usually done in post.. That might be why..

I think you don’t know the Pocket, it has three grades of sharpening settings in camera.
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Mark Foster

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Re: 4k Pocket Softer Than Studio 4k

PostSun Jun 13, 2021 3:04 pm

BennoZ wrote:I think you don’t know the Pocket, it has three grades of sharpening settings in camera.


this setting effects prores only
cMP 5.1 2x3,46/96GB/2x2TB 860pro/4x4TB HGST/SSD7101A 4x2TB 970evoplus/HP1344/BMD4k/Radeon VII
macOS 11.2.3

BMPCC 6k pro (7.3.1)
BMPCC 4k (7.3)+ MB speedbooster ultra 0.71 (3.60)
resolve studio 17.2.2
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Denny Smith

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Re: 4k Pocket Softer Than Studio 4k

PostMon Jun 14, 2021 12:18 am

You can use a ATEM Mini with the Pocket Camera to get full CCU camera control to set sharpening on the camera’s output. This will sharpen up the image to match the Micro Studio cameras, as well as the color settings. I had a Pocket 4K and a Micro Studio both on the ATEM Mini Pro, and got both images to match fairly close, using the CCU control on the Pocket 4K.
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Jim Simon

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Re: 4k Pocket Softer Than Studio 4k

PostTue Jun 15, 2021 2:28 pm

Were this my problem, I'd be looking to purchase a Mini Pro or Extreme to replace the ME2 so I could lose the Decimator.
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BennoZ

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Re: 4k Pocket Softer Than Studio 4k

PostTue Jun 15, 2021 3:49 pm

I would advise to buy the Extreme, much more options.
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Howard Roll

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Re: 4k Pocket Softer Than Studio 4k

PostTue Jun 15, 2021 10:32 pm

Jim Simon wrote:Were this my problem, I'd be looking to purchase a Mini Pro or Extreme to replace the ME2 so I could lose the Decimator.


BennoZ wrote:I would advise to buy the Extreme, much more options.


You guys are high. Buy a Micro4K if you want to solve the problem with money.

Enable the correct camera settings if you want to fix the problem with ability.

Good Luck

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