Please add the fiber socket back to the Studio cameras.

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Cole Hockenbury

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Please add the fiber socket back to the Studio cameras.

PostThu Jul 29, 2021 11:06 pm

This will be the one major thing holding our studio back from purchasing them. We use the fiber connections for every shoot. and it sucks to see it going away and the new cameras won't integrate nicely with the Talkback converter unit.
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Nick Lavigne

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Re: Please add the fiber socket back to the Studio cameras.

PostFri Jul 30, 2021 3:11 am

Too late for that. You will need the Mini Converter Optical Fiber 12G-SDI.
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MrHotter

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Re: Please add the fiber socket back to the Studio cameras.

PostFri Jul 30, 2021 2:18 pm

It does not seem that this is a product for a standard studio. I wonder if they plan on updating the URSA Broadcast at some point or if this new Studio Camera line is what they will have going forward.

From watching the release announcement it seems this is for a simplified mobile and affordable studio setup.

The new gear should fit in well for those who want to be able to throw their gear in their trunk and then go stream from a remote location with an ATEM Mini.

I do low-end mobile streaming, so this would be something that appeals to someone like me, but I already have the functionality I need in the ATEM Mini and the Pocket Cinema line.

The new Studio line does give me the option to afford to expand my business to include multiple camera operators and more large-scale mobile productions.
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Videobegin

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Re: Please add the fiber socket back to the Studio cameras.

PostSun Aug 01, 2021 6:50 pm

Nick Lavigne wrote:You will need the Mini Converter Optical Fiber 12G-SDI.
Do bi-directionnal fiber converter support new studio cams, video stream AND control stream ?
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Raphaël Jacquot

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Re: Please add the fiber socket back to the Studio cameras.

PostMon Aug 02, 2021 6:40 am

Videobegin wrote:
Nick Lavigne wrote:You will need the Mini Converter Optical Fiber 12G-SDI.
Do bi-directionnal fiber converter support new studio cams, video stream AND control stream ?

yes. they are mostly passive coax <-> fiber converters, they don't mess with the signal itself.
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Kevin McGrath

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Re: Please add the fiber socket back to the Studio cameras.

PostMon Aug 02, 2021 2:21 pm

My big problem with the new cameras is the viewfinder/screen does not TILT down

So if your camera is HIGH on your tripod and your vertically challenged you can see the viewfinder correctly
does this mean you have to bring a small ladder with you.or ask the concert people to SIT DOWN

they are alright if you are at eye level but if your trying to shoot over someone taller than you it could be a problem
just a minor point

the work around is a little monitor attached to the LEG of the tripod connected via HDMI

As for Fiber I already invested in having that around for a few years now they go and change it
that just not make me happy about the whole thing
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Please add the fiber socket back to the Studio cameras.

PostMon Aug 02, 2021 3:12 pm

@kevin, The old version had no tilt screen either.. So yeah i do get you but it's just the way BMD designed this product..

For the Fiber thing.. Also i get you.. But for new companies the treshold is lower now to get into this.. As a CAT6 cable is much MUCH cheaper and easier to repair.. As fiber is still a "thing"

So i see the vision from bmd in this one.. And it will still operate if you just get the 12G Fiber converter put the SFP in there and put 2 short SDI wires between the cam and converter.. ;)

Those boxes are around 130 bucks.. Not too expensive right..
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Raphaël Jacquot

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Re: Please add the fiber socket back to the Studio cameras.

PostMon Aug 02, 2021 9:55 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:Those boxes are around 130 bucks.. Not too expensive right..


the appropriate 12G SFPs are twice that though
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Videobegin

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Re: Please add the fiber socket back to the Studio cameras.

PostTue Aug 03, 2021 6:37 am

If fiber is a "thing", copper is usually underestimated. As transmission lines, lots of phenomens (diaphony, reflexions, complex impedance...) alter signals from errors to total loss. It's the same for all high frequency uses (sdi, netwoks).

Not sure about copper lower cost: Professionals will use corrects cable (cat6a or cat8) for speed with double shields (S-FTP) for RF, EMI noise. Comparing prices for 25m give fiber=21€ and copper=31€.
High speed infras also cost a lot (switches, rooters...).

Choice of cables must rely on study, not only on price screening.

BMD must include SFP expansion slot on studio camera allowing users to choose between fiber or copper tranceivers. 8-)
Last edited by Videobegin on Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Raphaël Jacquot

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Re: Please add the fiber socket back to the Studio cameras.

PostTue Aug 03, 2021 7:32 am

Videobegin wrote:If fiber is a "thing", copper is usually underestimated. As transmission lines, lots of phenomens (diaphony, reflexions, complex impedance...) alter signals from errors to total loss. It's the same for all high frequency uses (sdi, netwoks).

Not sure about copper lower cost: Professionals will use corrects cable (cat6a or cat8) for speed with double shields (S-FTP) for RF, EMI noise. Comparing prices for 25m give fiber=21€ and copper=31€.
High speed infras also cost a lot (switches, rooters...).

Choice of cables must rely on study, not only on price screening.

BMD must offer SFP expansion slot for studio camera allowing users to choose between fiber or copper tranceivers. 8-)


they do, here:

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... /W-CONM-29
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Videobegin

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Re: Please add the fiber socket back to the Studio cameras.

PostTue Aug 03, 2021 7:54 am

translating correction

BMD must include SFP expansion slot on studio camera allowing users to choose between fiber or copper tranceivers. 8-)
hyperdeck 12G - Teranex HDMI to SDI 12G - Teranex hdmi<>optical - ATEM Television Studio Pro 4K - Web presenter HD - BMPCC 4K - Studio Camera 4K Pro
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codedeltajames

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Re: Please add the fiber socket back to the Studio cameras.

PostTue Aug 03, 2021 8:03 am

Videobegin wrote:BMD must include SFP expansion slot on studio camera allowing users to choose between fiber or copper tranceivers. 8-)


The old fibre system and the new copper system are completely different. The route to the old fibre system is the addition of the fibre micro converter, which will plug straight into the new cameras. There is no equivalent of the copper system anywhere else in the BMD product range, especially the addition of PoE, analogue intercom and multiple return video feeds. Of course, you could use commercial media converters to convert the copper signal to fibre and get all those benefits (well, except PoE obviously) down your existing fibre cables.

IMHO, keeping the fibre connections would have placated a small number of existing customers, at the cost of a more expensive camera and retaining a feature that is unlikely to bring new customers to the studio camera range.

Incidentally, the built in fibre connector was one of the things that put me off the old cameras, particularly the choice of a standard LC connector. If they'd gone with something more industrial, like the Neutrik opticon (which maintains backwards compatibility with LC), to keep the pretty delicate LC connectors away from the camera head I'd have been more tempted. Unfortunately they've done the same again with the RJ45 for the copper connection, choosing not to use one of the standard industrial locking connector types and instead relying on that little plastic tab to keep your camera on air.
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robertsmu

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Re: Please add the fiber socket back to the Studio cameras.

PostTue Aug 03, 2021 3:06 pm

This may specific to my use case, but I find the new Cat6 connector intriguing. I currently use the fiber connection in my oral history studio and it works fantastic. I see no reason to upgrade the camera at this time.

In the field, however, I have used the Studio cameras, Ursa Broadcast, and Micro Studio cameras, often at the same event. Each has their own function.

When I joined this roadshow, the guys I worked with were kind of conservative - we connected all cameras via sdi. That meant two cables per camera. Run under carpets and rigged to sets. Long runs. When you have, like, 12 cameras up, that's a lot of copper and since we fly with everything, that is a lot of weight and cases to load at the airport!

Then we connected the Ursa Broadcast cameras with the SMPTE fiber. Of course that adds $6k to each camera for the hardware, PLUS the SMPTE fiber, which isn't cheap (and is also heavy). Had some issues, but generally worked well. But not really a weight saver (and the cable being expensive, we went to great lengths to protect).

Then we used the LC fiber for the Studio Cameras. The SFP fiber modules are affordable (we run 3G shows), the receivers are $150, and the armored cable was affordable and worked well on long runs under carpet (and it was light!). Never had a problem, worked flawlessly.

So now, with the advent of the cat6 connector on the studio camera, I could use one relatively inexpensive cable to get everything to the camera, including power, for the cost of an $895 Studio Convertor? Take my money!! Plus, we don't have to transport the cables! We bring in a network guy for every event to manage the internet connections, and he makes all our cables custom.

Now if only there were a m43-specific parfocal broadcast quality zoom lens, I could dump the Ursa Broadcasts!

Again, talking about my use case specifically, yours may (probably is different).

PS: Hey, Blackmagic... put an ethernet cable on the Micro Studio Camera, and the gaming live-streaming industry will buy all that you make for those POV shots.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Please add the fiber socket back to the Studio cameras.

PostTue Aug 03, 2021 3:32 pm

robertsmu wrote:PS: Hey, Blackmagic... put an ethernet cable on the Micro Studio Camera, and the gaming live-streaming industry will buy all that you make for those POV shots.


In case you didn't notice.. And i think a lot of people did not.. The Micro Studio is gone as well..
Only the Micro Cinema is still there.. https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... s/W-CIN-11


BTW buy those new cameras and sell me your Ursa Broadcasts :lol: Hard to get but HARD needed here..
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Raphaël Jacquot

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Re: Please add the fiber socket back to the Studio cameras.

PostTue Aug 03, 2021 8:23 pm

codedeltajames wrote:
Videobegin wrote:There is no equivalent of the copper system anywhere else in the BMD product range, especially the addition of PoE, analogue intercom and multiple return video feeds.


technically these features are identical and probably the same protocol as used in the ursa broadcast fiber converter devices
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Raphaël Jacquot

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Re: Please add the fiber socket back to the Studio cameras.

PostTue Aug 03, 2021 8:24 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:In case you didn't notice.. And i think a lot of people did not.. The Micro Studio is gone as well..
Only the Micro Cinema is still there.. https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... s/W-CIN-11


my guess is a new one is coming with the better sensor :D
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robertsmu

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Re: Please add the fiber socket back to the Studio cameras.

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robertsmu

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Re: Please add the fiber socket back to the Studio cameras.

PostTue Aug 03, 2021 10:31 pm

"BTW buy those new cameras and sell me your Ursa Broadcasts :lol: Hard to get but HARD needed here.."

Well the new Studio Cameras are not yet deliverable, and the Studio convertor is vaporware as far as I can tell, so we are both hurting! But mainly we still need the Ursas for the broadcast lens. Sometimes you need a parfocal zoom/constant aperture lens, and I don't really want to adapt a b4 lens to the m43 of the studio camera.

The camera ops we hire locally can operate the Ursa Broadcast competently, since it is similar to other broadcast cameras and we provide focus and zoom controls for the b4 lens.. However, they foam at the mouth if they have to operate a studio camera with a photographic lens. We tend to use those for lock off shots.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Please add the fiber socket back to the Studio cameras.

PostWed Aug 04, 2021 9:34 am

Raphaël Jacquot wrote:
Xtreemtec wrote:In case you didn't notice.. And i think a lot of people did not.. The Micro Studio is gone as well..
Only the Micro Cinema is still there.. https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... s/W-CIN-11


my guess is a new one is coming with the better sensor :D

Nope as reseller we got a notice that the sensor of the micro 4k. ( which is the same sensor as in the late Studio 4K ) is struggling to get sensors for. ( due to the chip market issues again ).

Therefore they "removed" it from the website. ( as in if you dont know the link you can not find the page anymore... )

And it is removed from resellers list. So we cant order it anymore. ;)

They will try to fullfill the current backorders of micro studio as soon as sensors come in. ;)
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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Raphaël Jacquot

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Re: Please add the fiber socket back to the Studio cameras.

PostWed Aug 04, 2021 6:43 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:Nope as reseller we got a notice that the sensor of the micro 4k. ( which is the same sensor as in the late Studio 4K ) is struggling to get sensors for. ( due to the chip market issues again ).


they should redesign it with the sensor in those new cameras they're coming out with, which they should have plenty of
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Denny Smith

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Re: Please add the fiber socket back to the Studio cameras.

PostThu Aug 05, 2021 6:14 pm

A new Micro Studio camera could be in the works, only BMD knows… :roll:
Cheers
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