Audio routing on ATEM Constellation 8K

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Thibaud

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Audio routing on ATEM Constellation 8K

PostTue Dec 15, 2020 9:19 pm

Hello,

I am considering the purchase of an ATEM Constellation but one important thing is holding me back. There is really no way to route audio from one single source ( such as a computer) to a dedicated output ? We can only have the PGM audio on all the outputs ?

If it is only possible to do PGM audio for now, do you know if more advanced audio routing functionality will be added by a software update ?

The switcher is amazing but for me this PGM audio on all outputs is quite limiting I must say.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Audio routing on ATEM Constellation 8K

PostWed Dec 16, 2020 9:21 am

Yes it is quite limited.. For the "Most advanced audio mixer to date inside the Atem" its is very limited that it has so much Audio IO on madi but still only can have a stereo mix down on all outputs.

NO Routing
NO Embedding of multiple channels on PGM out

Which is what a lot of people is holding back to buy it.. Also i heard from a source in direct contact with BMD product managers that there is NO plans in the upcoming months to change anything about the audio mixing / routing of the Constellation..

So much potential and unfortunately no solution on the horizon.. :roll: :(
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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Knut Bussian

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Re: Audio routing on ATEM Constellation 8K

PostWed Dec 16, 2020 10:42 am

Seems like BM rather develops another hardware for low budget streaming, than spending / communicating time with their "pro" products and users.

Disappointing...

Knut
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Thibaud

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Re: Audio routing on ATEM Constellation 8K

PostWed Dec 16, 2020 10:47 am

Ok I see ! If they told you they have no plans to do it, it could mean it is more of a hardware update than a software update that we should expect.

Will hold back from buying it in case they release a new switcher. It is such a fantastic switcher otherwise ! Too bad it's just missing this one thing.

I think they should have prioritized audio routing over working on 8K. Who actually use 8K ? Very few people broadcast or record in 4K already...
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Audio routing on ATEM Constellation 8K

PostWed Dec 16, 2020 11:51 am

8K was just to trow all other manufacturers at there back.. Look what we got!! ;)

BTW we pulled a constellation from a job this year and replaced it with an Atem 4ME.. Why?! Because we really really REALLY needed Analog Timecode input!! Because we NEEDED to sync to the house TC.

It's nice you can set the TC on the Atem now. But removing the option for External TC in / Out is really disappointing too..
As TC is just Audio i hope they will add support to at least switch the analog in / output of the atem into TC..

But Audio Routing / Multi channel embedding is crucial too!! I mean how hard can it be to add a few audio channels into the PGM feed.. While they quite easily managed to get channels 13/14/15/16 for intercom purposes..

I dont think it has to do with Hardware issues.. And i have a feeling that there is already some progress going on that they run multiple audio channels inside the FPGA.. The big problem might just be how to make a good interface in the control software to control this routing and coupling.. So users do understand what they are doing.. The Atem software has not changed a lot since 2012 when we started to use the first Atems.. And the Fairlight audio controls is some of the latest additions to the software which is also done about 2 years ago when the Atem TVS Pro 4K came to the market.. But since they added a button for the Atem mini to capture output to Media.. And that is about it... :?

So or they say nothing and there will be a HUGE update in April to unlock those features.. Or it will never come and a lot of production houses will be dis-apointed that this mixer is just not finished with the tools you need for the REALY BIG productions where you buy this mixer for..

I hope BMD will prove me wrong very soon!!!
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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Thibaud

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Re: Audio routing on ATEM Constellation 8K

PostWed Dec 16, 2020 12:00 pm

Ouch I didn't notice that Timecode input had disappeared ...

Well let's wait and see ! I can understand that during the heart of the initial pandemic strike, they were very busy dealing with remote productions and ATEM mini setups since that's where the demand was.

But let's hope they don't forget the rest completely... they must be working on it somehow, because they released 2 M/E and 4 M/E panels. So there doesn't seem to be a huge shift in terms of strategy.
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ettnoll

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Re: Audio routing on ATEM Constellation 8K

PostWed Dec 16, 2020 1:30 pm

I wouldn't say that the Constellation isn't a part of the "pandemic market", we have heavily used it to make productions with remote guests. It enables us to show up to 12 (or more correct, 13) inputs at the same time, using both supersources and all four DVE's, and nothing else can really compete with that.

With that being said: yes, the lack of audio routing is painful.
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Haakon Sundry

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Re: Audio routing on ATEM Constellation 8K

PostWed Dec 16, 2020 5:41 pm

Thibaud wrote:Too bad it's just missing this one thing.

It's also missing any kind of reasonable storage / media player, but who's counting? :P

The audio is a huge issue, and it's the same way on all of their switchers. There's a big mixing area, but what can you do with it? I need individual stems for post, so I have to lug around a separate audio rack anyway. Until there is any sort of routing available, the entire audio system in the ATEM is largely useless. In fact, we unfortunately just bypass it completely.
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David Hutchinson

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Re: Audio routing on ATEM Constellation 8K

PostWed Dec 16, 2020 11:29 pm

Yes the audio was a huge missed opportunity in the Constellation, we get around many of the routing issues by using a videohub 40x40 12G.
That said, for the price it's an amazing bit of kit especially when paired with the new 2me active panel.
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Roman Pytkin Pekarek

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Re: Audio routing on ATEM Constellation 8K

PostThu Dec 17, 2020 12:14 am

4 confogurable MVs are BIG advantage ,what I see on Constellation ..
http://tally.pytkin.sk
http://chucktv.eu
http://www.stonepp.tv
http://www.media-planet.sk
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Raphaël Jacquot

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Re: Audio routing on ATEM Constellation 8K

PostThu Dec 17, 2020 8:28 am

Thibaud wrote:Ouch I didn't notice that Timecode input had disappeared ...


they could use the audio in/out on those 1/4 inch jacks for that, not a big issue
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David Hutchinson

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Re: Audio routing on ATEM Constellation 8K

PostThu Dec 17, 2020 9:25 am

Roman Pytkin Pekarek wrote:4 confogurable MVs are BIG advantage ,what I see on Constellation ..

But also something that isn't mentioned often are the 4DVE which also makes a huge difference to program possibilities.
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Raphaël Jacquot

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Re: Audio routing on ATEM Constellation 8K

PostThu Dec 17, 2020 10:07 am

David Hutchinson wrote:
Roman Pytkin Pekarek wrote:4 confogurable MVs are BIG advantage ,what I see on Constellation ..

But also something that isn't mentioned often are the 4DVE which also makes a huge difference to program possibilities.


are those 3D DVEs ?
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David Hutchinson

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Re: Audio routing on ATEM Constellation 8K

PostThu Dec 17, 2020 11:01 am

Raphaël Jacquot wrote:
David Hutchinson wrote:
Roman Pytkin Pekarek wrote:4 confogurable MVs are BIG advantage ,what I see on Constellation ..

But also something that isn't mentioned often are the 4DVE which also makes a huge difference to program possibilities.


are those 3D DVEs ?


The specs described them as DVE with 3D Borders & Drop Shadow 4 x up to Ultra HD / 1 x in 8K

So my answer would be no. Also the Constellation DVE are missing Rotation, But they are pretty powerful with some nice touches.
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YAL_YAL

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Re: Audio routing on ATEM Constellation 8K

PostFri Feb 19, 2021 9:52 pm

Hi there Everyone.

Any news on the audio routing to sdi outs? I also didn't realized it before buying it. It's really annoying to see all audio meters on the 4 Multiview screens but actually no way to get them to the sdi outputs....just doesn't make any sense at all!! Because of that most of the time it's just a fancy and expensive paperweight!
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David Hutchinson

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Re: Audio routing on ATEM Constellation 8K

PostSat Feb 20, 2021 11:31 am

Don"t hold your breath. It is what it is and I don't believe it will ever change.

I use the the MADI out to an RME Digiface Dante which converts it to Dante then feeds it via Dante to an Allen & Heath SQ6 and back again. But even then the MADI output is hard programmed and missing some important audio outs, like the Media players. It would make much more sense to have the MADI out selectable.

To get over the Aux out issue I use a videohub 40x40 or Teranex AV.

These are all expensive solutions which would be much easier and cheaper to solve internally within the Constellation.

Putting it bluntly the Constellation is an amazing video switcher at an incredible price, but a 156 input audio mixer with one bus is not suitable for professional audio work. Just accept you have to do audio processing outwith the Mixer and you will learn to love 'STELLA'. :D
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Norm Clare

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Re: Audio routing on ATEM Constellation 8K

PostWed Apr 21, 2021 3:10 pm

Yes, it's a really frustrating limitation. We have the REM Digiface Dante to map Dante to MADI in/out and this could open up a world of opportunities IF we could route sources to busses and then to MEs and outputs. Mix multiple programs on separate MEs or easily add multiple language translations to a program. Seems a shame really.
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Daniel Binder

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Re: Audio routing on ATEM Constellation 8K

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 5:29 pm

Hi everyone,

We have an ATEM Constellation and are wondering if upgrading our Audio Mixer (Allen & Heath SQ5) with a MADI card will fix any of the limitations.

My main question would be, is there was a way to route any of the ATEM audio inputs to one specific MADI output channel or would all 32 MADI output channels just have the same stereo program audio mix?

i.E. We have a Hyperdeck used for playout, let's say on input 10 on the ATEM. Would it be possible to route the audio of just that input 10 to one of the MADI output channels?

From the previous discussion I read in this thread, it sounds like it's not possible, which is hard to believe, hence the question.

Thank you!
Cheers, Daniel
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Roman Pytkin Pekarek

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Re: Audio routing on ATEM Constellation 8K

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 10:48 pm

Hello Daniel !

U can read manual and everything is writed there ..

MADI 1 OUT sending channels 1-2 from inputs 1-30 .. and 60-63 have any outputs ..

MADI 2 OUT sending channels 3-4 from inputs 1-30 .. and 60-63 have any outputs ..

Its great ! U not need deembeders ..
http://tally.pytkin.sk
http://chucktv.eu
http://www.stonepp.tv
http://www.media-planet.sk
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David Hutchinson

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Re: Audio routing on ATEM Constellation 8K

PostThu Sep 23, 2021 7:13 am

Daniel Binder wrote:Hi everyone,

We have an ATEM Constellation and are wondering if upgrading our Audio Mixer (Allen & Heath SQ5) with a MADI card will fix any of the limitations.

My main question would be, is there was a way to route any of the ATEM audio inputs to one specific MADI output channel or would all 32 MADI output channels just have the same stereo program audio mix?

i.E. We have a Hyperdeck used for playout, let's say on input 10 on the ATEM. Would it be possible to route the audio of just that input 10 to one of the MADI output channels?

From the previous discussion I read in this thread, it sounds like it's not possible, which is hard to believe, hence the question.

Thank you!
Cheers, Daniel


I use an SQ6 and SQ5 to do exactly what you are asking. Rather than putting a MADI interface into the the Mixers I have Dante cards instead. This gives much more flexibility in show production than taking up the single expansion slot with MADI.

The Constellation MADI is fed to an RME Digiface Dante which converts the MADI to Dante and back again. This gives you 32 channels each way. Unfortunately the 32 channels out of the ATEM are hard wired, but about the only thing missing which I need are the Media 1-4 Audio outputs. Any of the first 30 SDI inputs are available on the audio mixer and I feed the output back to the ATEM on MADI channel 32 which is assigned using Dante controller. It also means I can bring in all my other Dante feeds such as commentators.

The return time is way less than 10ms and once setup I don’t often need to touch it.

The SQ6/5 gives me all the audio functionality I need for some quite complex shows.
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Daniel Binder

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Re: Audio routing on ATEM Constellation 8K

PostFri Sep 24, 2021 6:56 pm

Thank you both for the inputs. I bought the MADI card for the SQ5 as in our use case, there is no real need for Dante for this setup. (Our second SQ-5 in a permanent studio setup has the Dante card, so it's good to know there's a way to get there too. It will be useful once we replace the ATEM 4M/E Broadcast Studio there).

For now the MADI card at €400,- (vs. roughly 1600 for RME interface+ Dante card was the better option.

One thing that was a bit confusing in the beginning is the mapping of the MADI channels.

Inputs 1-30 on the ATEM Constellation translate into inputs 1-60 on MADI as it's 2 channels each. Might be obvious for some, took some head scratching on our end. ATEM manual wasn't super clear on that.

So MADI output from the ATEM translates like this:
ATEM Input 1 -> Channel 1+2 on MAD out 1
ATEM Input 2 -> Channel 3+4 on MADI out 1
ATEM Input 3 -> Channel 5+6 on MADI out 1
etc...
ATEM Input 30 -> Channel 59+60 on MADI out 1
ATEM Input 31-40 ... sorry, no output on MADI
Maybe this will help someone at some point.

Cheers, everyone.
Daniel
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Raphaël Jacquot

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Re: Audio routing on ATEM Constellation 8K

PostFri Sep 24, 2021 7:31 pm

Daniel Binder wrote:ATEM Input 31-40 ... sorry, no output on MADI


ok, so those are the channels where the key part of the key/fill dual links should go

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