ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

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Thibaud

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ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostSun Apr 24, 2022 10:31 am

Congratulations (and many thanks :) !! ) to Blackmagic team for putting out an HD version of the great Constellation 8K switcher. There are so promising, I do have a few update requests that I hope will come one day to maximize their potential.

First, I disagree with people saying an HD switcher is useless in 2022. Cost is more important than 4K for many of us. And I have an idea for a hack that would make the HD version even better :

- ISO Recording : I'm not sure you designed the internal hardware to allow for a recording of all camera feeds on a hard drive, especially considering the number of inputs in the 2 M/E and 4 M/E versions. BUT, if only you could allow us to save the Resolve project with the cuts in a USB-C hard drive it would be INCREDIBLE. And the ATEM would just trigger the internal recording of all the cameras in Braw :) This would allow us to grab a 4K or even 6K / 12k DaVinci Resolve project .... with an HD Switcher ! This would be highly useful for high end concerts, theatre & artistic productions. I really hope this will be possible in the future.

- ATEM Constellation 8K still has issues with the Web Presenter , the web presenter reads the Constellation 8K signal as Rec2020, thus showing an over saturated image and making the Web Presenter not usable with the Constellation. Is it still the case on the ATEM Constellation HD models ?

- Some basic AUDIO ROUTING ! This is still hard to believe lol. We are dying to integrate Fairlight into our workflow but are limited by the fact that you can only have the PGM audio on all 24 SDI outputs. And you can't even mute an output, which means using decimators, etc ... We are losing huge potential of the Constellation.

- Unrelated : It would be great to see a Teranex size half rack unit that would have 4 SDI Inputs , 4 SDI Outputs and 4 HDMI Inputs and 4 HDMI outputs. Kind of a quad Bidirectional converter. This would be HUGE !

Does anyone in the Blackmagic team think these would be possible ?

Thanks !
Last edited by Thibaud on Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Roman Pytkin Pekarek

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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostSun Apr 24, 2022 10:35 am

USB port is not HOST .. So U cannot connect harddrive to it ..
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Thibaud

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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostSun Apr 24, 2022 10:43 am

Would be a bummer. Are you sure about that ?
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andisailer

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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostSun Apr 24, 2022 2:35 pm

They're only mentioning webcam USB, so I guess no built in encoder & recorder.

But it should be possible for BMD to build an 8x 3G SDI recorder for the price of a mini extreme, at least I would get one.

+1 for the rackmount quad bidirectional, I'd buy a few of those as well. ;)
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Raphaël Jacquot

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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostSun Apr 24, 2022 7:46 pm

Roman Pytkin Pekarek wrote:USB port is not HOST .. So U cannot connect harddrive to it ..


it's a software issue...
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jonathanrabanus

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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostSun Apr 24, 2022 10:52 pm

Can I control my BM Pocket cameras with the ne constellations or is it still ATEM mini only feature?
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Ben Doyle

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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostMon Apr 25, 2022 1:38 am

I have 2 Constellation 8K's and I would have bought HD versions had they been an option (and may buy more of these). I have no need for 4K+ end to end live show workflows...most of my shows go 1080P live stream. HOWEVER, I would be awfully tempted to do 4K if BMD (or Atomos) had a 4K quad recorder. I routinely run 2 or even 4 Atomos Shogun 7's in quad switch mode to record 1080P streams. So I second that request. I also second the need for color space fixing on the web presenter.

Anyway, here are my 5 biggest limitations on all constellations (unless they've changed this and I just don't know):

1. PSF support! Gotta have this. Most cameras do 23.98 or even 29.97 at PSF and this is so incredibly needed.
2. Timecode input!!!!!!
3. AUDIO ROUTING - need to be able to route any audio input to up to 8 (or even 14) SDI output channels.
4. AUDIO setting adjustments via the Advanced panel interface (what the hell is that audio button even for?)
5. Input data monitor screen for frame rate, format, etc. (need to be able to see what the inputs are on a status screen so I know what's mis-matched with a quick look see).
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Xtreemtec

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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostMon Apr 25, 2022 7:39 am

Timecode input and Audio routing is a REAL need!! But BMD seems to struggle to bring that to us..

ISO on the constellation.. NO!!! Buy a few hyperdecks or different recorders!!
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Volker Ansmann

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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostMon Apr 25, 2022 8:17 am

+1 for Timecode and Audio-Routing !
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Roman Pytkin Pekarek

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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostMon Apr 25, 2022 9:10 am

jonathanrabanus wrote:Can I control my BM Pocket cameras with the ne constellations or is it still ATEM mini only feature?

Why not ? I have Constelation 8K , and we control 3x BMD URSA and small BMD pocket studio on crane .. We have two BMD pocket cinema 6K for exterior recordings, but not tested it .. There was no BIDIR 4K converter about a year ago .. Now its available , so it must work .. Somebody tested it ?
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Raphaël Jacquot

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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostMon Apr 25, 2022 10:27 am

jonathanrabanus wrote:Can I control my BM Pocket cameras with the ne constellations or is it still ATEM mini only feature?


yes, use a bidirectionnal hdmi<->sdi converter, both 3G and 12G models support this functionnality.
use pgm out to the camera for the control signal, and the camera signal to the input
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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostMon Apr 25, 2022 2:35 pm

Disappointed

I was expecting a new lineup like this, but with recording and streaming capability. Buttons on the front, great. Video processing on each input, fantastic. But that’s it? HD only? No recording? No streaming?

If it had the recording and streaming I would overlook the HD only and purchase, but now I’m not sure it’s worth it. The price is great, but I think I’ll keep using my Mini Extreme iso for now.

Speaking of iso, in the future, can you add the ability to turn off unused inputs please.
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Thibaud

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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostMon Apr 25, 2022 4:31 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:ISO on the constellation.. NO!!! Buy a few hyperdecks or different recorders!!


Not really asking for true ISO recording for all 10 , 20 or 40 video streams, it would be a lot of engineering work I guess.

Just having the drp resolve project file with all the cuts, which we can feed with the Blackmagic Raw files from the cameras. Which would allow the Constellation HD to be used for Full HD streaming but 4K or 6K post production in Blackmagic Raw.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostMon Apr 25, 2022 6:53 pm

But that is not ISO, that is EDL logging ;) And yes the Mini's had some kind of BMD EDL.. Real EDL is there and works great for this kind of setups.

Just run this for free and you have EDL https://ianmorrish.wordpress.com/2019/0 ... -atem-mix/

Or use the paid Multicam Logger app to do it..
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Raphaël Jacquot

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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostMon Apr 25, 2022 8:25 pm

Thibaud wrote:
Xtreemtec wrote:ISO on the constellation.. NO!!! Buy a few hyperdecks or different recorders!!


Not really asking for true ISO recording for all 10 , 20 or 40 video streams, it would be a lot of engineering work I guess.

Just having the drp resolve project file with all the cuts, which we can feed with the Blackmagic Raw files from the cameras. Which would allow the Constellation HD to be used for Full HD streaming but 4K or 6K post production in Blackmagic Raw.


you wouldn't have the appropriate bandwidth on the USB for starters...
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Thibaud

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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostTue Apr 26, 2022 8:18 am

Xtreemtec wrote:But that is not ISO, that is EDL logging ;) And yes the Mini's had some kind of BMD EDL.. Real EDL is there and works great for this kind of setups.

Just run this for free and you have EDL https://ianmorrish.wordpress.com/2019/0 ... -atem-mix/

Or use the paid Multicam Logger app to do it..


- I had tried the first option but didn't manage to make it work. I'll try to have another go at it, but in any case, it cannot run on Mac and is not frame accurate, so I'm not sure I would use it on the field as it is today.

- The Multicam Logger is 1500€ (1600$) , quite pricey

- Came across this https://codecandy.com.au , looks like a great option but the trello dev board has not been updated for over a year so I don't know wether we'll see the light of it ...
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Xtreemtec

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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostTue Apr 26, 2022 11:14 am

Then develope your own. You are smart enough based on your Middle Things hardware ;)

Guess it wont be too difficult for you to tap into the BMD SDK to pull cut info and timecode from the atem. :)
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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostSat Apr 30, 2022 6:26 pm

Simple audio routing +1 !

For me it would be enough to have audio pass through when sending a camera signal to an SDI out. But I assume that's a hardware related limitation and we won't see improvements in form of a software update.
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Weston Woodbury

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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostSat May 14, 2022 3:29 am

Personally I'm pretty surprised about the Mini's Record+DRP workflow not being adopted in these HD equivalent bandwidth 3G switchers, thought for sure that'd be coming on new higher end Atem hardware going forward. I see it used quite a lot out in the wild and aside from engineer types super familiar with BMD ecosystem, crew and clients alike now just expect the much more expensive Atems to be able to do what the cheap tiny hdmi ones do.

They pulled it off for the 8-channel Iso Extreme -- and how often are shows really recording more than 9 channels even when doing ISOs.. not often. Just pick which of the inputs or outputs are recorded and call it good with one port, or have multiple ports, OR have the same .DRP USB-C workflow where it names your files for you but does it to Hyperdecks which we know is very possible protocol wise.

Strange. Had to have been thought about and tried in development. I like and use 3rd party options but they infinitely more complex to setup and maintain and the turnkey ones are very costly even just for HD.

Oh well! :geek: :ugeek: -W
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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostTue May 17, 2022 2:40 am

Adding to your list... VISCA-over-Ethernet support

The number of cameras that support Power and PTZ over Ethernet is huge, and growing.
The vendors supporting PTZ "heads" that work with VISCA/RS422 is shrinking. (at least two of the three "supported motorized heads" mentioned in the manual are no longer available...)

Adding support for VISCA-over-Ethernet should be an easy software lift that would add to the value of these switchers, without taking anything away from the SDI use cases used with BMD's own cameras.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostTue May 17, 2022 11:03 am

John Plocher wrote:Adding to your list... VISCA-over-Ethernet support

The number of cameras that support Power and PTZ over Ethernet is huge, and growing.
The vendors supporting PTZ "heads" that work with VISCA/RS422 is shrinking. (at least two of the three "supported motorized heads" mentioned in the manual are no longer available...)

Adding support for VISCA-over-Ethernet should be an easy software lift that would add to the value of these switchers, without taking anything away from the SDI use cases used with BMD's own cameras.

Your request is far from easy.. Consider that the Atem already has a limit towards the maximum connections allowed on the Switcher.

Adding IP based cameras to that will eat up slots like crazy.

Then what would you gain at all???? Because BMD only offers Pan Tilt and Zoom. No controls over Focus, Iris, Shutter, gain, Whitebalance etc.. The current PTZ implementation is already Very Very poor.. So why would you want to extend that to IP.

Better just buy a cheap Visca Ip enabled joystick. As there are plenty out there.. And offloading the task to another person to control cameras.
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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostTue May 17, 2022 11:32 am

Ben Doyle wrote:HOWEVER, I would be awfully tempted to do 4K if BMD (or Atomos) had a 4K quad recorder. I routinely run 2 or even 4 Atomos Shogun 7's in quad switch mode to record 1080P streams.


How about the Atomos Shogun Studio 2 ??
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Raphaël Jacquot

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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostTue May 17, 2022 1:06 pm

Xtreemtec wrote: Consider that the Atem already has a limit towards the maximum connections allowed on the Switcher.

Adding IP based cameras to that will eat up slots like crazy.



that's a software issue in the controller firmware (which probably runs on the arm hard cores).
there is no reason to have such limited network connection numbers.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostTue May 17, 2022 4:52 pm

Soft or Arm core in the Xillinx FPGA ;) Ethernet is direct connected to the main IO FPGA.

The limit is due to the nature of the UDP protocol they use. There are a lot of timers, session ID's etc in each of the connections that it does a pretty job sustaining 10 ethernet connections doing the Atem protocol.
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Raphaël Jacquot

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Re: ATEM Constellation HD - ISO Recording request & more

PostTue May 17, 2022 6:18 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:Soft or Arm core in the Xillinx FPGA ;) Ethernet is direct connected to the main IO FPGA.

The limit is due to the nature of the UDP protocol they use. There are a lot of timers, session ID's etc in each of the connections that it does a pretty job sustaining 10 ethernet connections doing the Atem protocol.


according to

https://odysee.com/@eevblog:7/2021-02-2 ... Teardown:f

atem minis use Xilinx XCZU5EV

atem mini pro.jpg
atem mini pro.jpg (290.51 KiB) Viewed 140 times


which contain:
  • Application Processor : Quad-core Arm® Cortex®-A53 MPCore™ up to 1.2GHz
  • Real-Time Processor : Dual-core Arm Cortex-R5 MPCore up to 500MHz
  • Graphics Processor : Mali™-400 MP2 up to 600MHz
as hard cores...

https://docs.xilinx.com/v/u/en-US/ds891 ... s-overview

somehow, I feel like more performance could be had on the application processor side...

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