Fiber Device Tx - Rx setup

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NFSBuff

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Fiber Device Tx - Rx setup

PostMon May 16, 2022 7:36 pm

Greetings.

I need a sanity check. Can anyone tell me if the attached diagram would function as drawn?

Assumptions
  • The correct SFPs are used
  • Only a single fiber (simplex) is connected to the end devices in the Tx / Rx port respectively

Fiber Tx-Rx Setup.jpg
Fiber Tx-Rx Setup.jpg (70.42 KiB) Viewed 1532 times


Known Variables Tested with Hardware in Hand
  • The Mini Converter has been tested and shown to accept incoming signals and send outgoing signals independent of each other.
  • The Teranex has been tested and shown it cannot send any optical signal other than a loop-out of whatever signal it receives on the fiber input.

Thanks!
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robertsmu

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Re: Fiber Device Tx - Rx setup

PostMon May 16, 2022 9:29 pm

The Mini Converter Optical Fiber 12G-SDI only has one SFP socket. How are diverting it to two devices?
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NFSBuff

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Re: Fiber Device Tx - Rx setup

PostMon May 16, 2022 11:08 pm

This is what I listed under assumptions. The single SFP with it's input / output is being connected via two simplex fiber cables.
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Jack Fairley

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Re: Fiber Device Tx - Rx setup

PostMon May 16, 2022 11:15 pm

I'm pretty sure this will work, based on the block diagram in the manual.
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NFSBuff

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Re: Fiber Device Tx - Rx setup

PostMon May 16, 2022 11:24 pm

Thanks Jack. I've not seen anything either that would prevent it, but that's why I'm checking!

Appreciate the feedback.
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Raphaël Jacquot

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Re: Fiber Device Tx - Rx setup

PostTue May 17, 2022 5:15 am

robertsmu wrote:The Mini Converter Optical Fiber 12G-SDI only has one SFP socket. How are diverting it to two devices?

the SFP has a transmit and receive side. there is no bidirectionnal communications in any of those, so you can split things with simplex fiber
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Fiber Device Tx - Rx setup

PostTue May 17, 2022 4:56 pm

Just out of wonders? Why do you want this setup with SDI and return on HDMI 4K ?
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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NFSBuff

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Re: Fiber Device Tx - Rx setup

PostWed May 18, 2022 3:38 pm

Xtreemtec wrote: .... Why do you want this setup with SDI and return on HDMI 4K ?

The technical answer is that the Teranex has an SDI input that does not function as one would expect. Ideally, the Teranex unit would provide Fiber to HDMI one way, and SDI to fiber the other way, as the unit does have an SDI input. But the Teranex SDI input does not get sent down the fiber. I've confirmed this both through calls to Black Magic and testing myself.

The "why" is that we have a TV in a remote control room we are feeding a copy of the mixer's multiview to, hence the HDMI need, along with XLR audio to studio monitors. The SDI return is for a camera in that room back to the mixer that we use as a "view of interest" during breaks and closing credits. Kind of a BTS camera to add interest after a show.

If the Teranex unit's fiber was source bi-directional -- like the mini converter is -- this solution wouldn't be needed.
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Raphaël Jacquot

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Re: Fiber Device Tx - Rx setup

PostWed May 18, 2022 4:35 pm

NFSBuff wrote:
Xtreemtec wrote: .... Why do you want this setup with SDI and return on HDMI 4K ?

The technical answer is that the Teranex has an SDI input that does not function as one would expect. Ideally, the Teranex unit would provide Fiber to HDMI one way, and SDI to fiber the other way, as the unit does have an SDI input. But the Teranex SDI input does not get sent down the fiber. I've confirmed this both through calls to Black Magic and testing myself.

The "why" is that we have a TV in a remote control room we are feeding a copy of the mixer's multiview to, hence the HDMI need, along with XLR audio to studio monitors. The SDI return is for a camera in that room back to the mixer that we use as a "view of interest" during breaks and closing credits. Kind of a BTS camera to add interest after a show.

If the Teranex unit's fiber was source bi-directional -- like the mini converter is -- this solution wouldn't be needed.


the teranex optical->hdmi allows you to select (either in the menu, or through a telnet to port 9993 or something, via the network protocol) which of the copper SDI or the fiber input goes to the hdmi.
what goes to the optical is unclear, but I suspect is identical to what goes out the hdmi.
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NFSBuff

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Re: Fiber Device Tx - Rx setup

PostWed May 18, 2022 5:00 pm

Raphaël, you are correct. The SDI input on the Teranex is only a local conversion to HDMI, and cannot be sent out via fiber. Which is sad, because it results in having to use two separate devices, as shown in the initial post.

The manual doesn't make this distinction clear. The fiber output of the unit is ONLY loop out. No option to send the SDI input out via fiber.
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: Fiber Device Tx - Rx setup

PostWed May 18, 2022 5:33 pm

NFSBuff wrote:The technical answer is that the Teranex has an SDI input that does not function as one would expect. Ideally, the Teranex unit would provide Fiber to HDMI one way, and SDI to fiber the other way, as the unit does have an SDI input. But the Teranex SDI input does not get sent down the fiber. I've confirmed this both through calls to Black Magic and testing myself. If the Teranex unit's fiber was source bi-directional -- like the mini converter is -- this solution wouldn't be needed.
I think the reason for this is that the Teranex Mini Optical to HDMI is based on the design Teranex Mini SDI to HDMI 12G converter. So it is essentially a single-directional SDI to HDMI converter, but with the option of using optical fiber as the video source instead of copper SDI. The video output (fiber in this case) is just a loop through output of the video input (like it is on the Teranex Mini SDI to HDMI converter).

So the end result is pretty different from the Mini Converter Optical Fiber 12G which is designed to be a bi-directional converter (as the older 3G Optical Fiber Mini Converters were).

Personally, I think it would be useful if Blackmagic came out with a Mini Converter Optical Fiber BiDirectional 12G, essentially combining the Micro Converter BiDirectional SDI/HDMI 12G with an Optical Fiber SFP port. This would allow input or output in HDMI, SDI, or fiber as well as bi-directional conversion allowing for use of whatever connection type is most convenient at either end.

This would also be useful for people trying to extend Blackmagic cameras or switchers with HDMI ports over fiber, as discussed in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=156292
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NFSBuff

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Re: Fiber Device Tx - Rx setup

PostWed May 18, 2022 6:11 pm

Dave Del Vecchio wrote:Personally, I think it would be useful if Blackmagic came out with a Mini Converter Optical Fiber BiDirectional 12G, essentially combining the Micro Converter BiDirectional SDI/HDMI 12G with an Optical Fiber SFP port. This would allow input or output in HDMI, SDI, or fiber as well as bi-directional conversion allowing for use of whatever connection type is most convenient at either end.
You encapsulated this whole thread in a nutshell. If a device like this existed, this thread wouldn't exist :D
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Raphaël Jacquot

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Re: Fiber Device Tx - Rx setup

PostWed May 18, 2022 9:54 pm

Dave Del Vecchio wrote:Personally, I think it would be useful if Blackmagic came out with a Mini Converter Optical Fiber BiDirectional 12G, essentially combining the Micro Converter BiDirectional SDI/HDMI 12G with an Optical Fiber SFP port. This would allow input or output in HDMI, SDI, or fiber as well as bi-directional conversion allowing for use of whatever connection type is most convenient at either end.


a simple FPGA firware update would easily allow to have a 2x2 matrix inside the device, I am pretty sure the logic resources are available.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Fiber Device Tx - Rx setup

PostThu May 19, 2022 8:03 am

It is that you need the XLR outputs too.. Otherwise i would suggest taking a 2 way 12G converter and just add a 12G > HDMI micro converter which is 120 bucks. ;)
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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NFSBuff

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Re: Fiber Device Tx - Rx setup

PostThu May 19, 2022 1:37 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:It is that you need the XLR outputs too..
The Teranex is SO close to perfection in this regard. Make it bi-directional and I could simplify a LOT of setups.

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