New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

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stephenwyker

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New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostSun Dec 05, 2021 6:19 pm

Hey All- Just got a pile of 4 new camera chains. Ursa G2 Broadcast, fiber converters, viewfinders, etc. Brand new 250ft SMPTE.

I am having a helluva time trying to get them to work. Never in my career have I found it so difficult to just "make things work"

2 cameras, out of the box, updated, worked properly (yesterday) with EVFs. 2 cameras, with studio VF worked yesterday but will not power on today (only red power light on fiber back). Tried with and without VFs connected thinking maybe VD.

Swapped fiber. Nothing. Tried fiber and studio converter on working cameras both work. Makes me think its the studio converter boxes. Come in today, those two studio boxes don't work, but 1 of the others now do? (I just powered everything off) -- Microscoped the fiber. Its clean.

All connected to an ATEM 4k. Returns hit a 12G 40x40 back. Followed all the guidance I found here with very little success. Cameras are on 7.5.1, fiber backs and converters on V1.3. ATEM, router, panel, etc all on newest SW.

I'll call support tomorrow, but trying to get a handle on what other peoples thoughts are here.
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RJImageParlor

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostSun Feb 27, 2022 5:52 pm

Hello Stephen,

Have you had any luck with this? I am in the middle of the same issues. Four brand new camera chains, new and old SMPTE cables and never seems to be a consistent reason as to why the we have the same issue you mentioned.

Thank you for any input you may have.

RJ
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thierrylaurencin

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostThu Mar 03, 2022 11:06 am

Hi Stephe, hi Rodney,

We have the same probleme.
Do you find a solution ?
Thierry
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jarihakkarainen

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostMon Mar 28, 2022 2:04 pm

Hi, the same problem here. The fiber converter + camera converter seem to establish a connection the first time around but if we switch power off and then back on, the connection does not get established anymore no matter how many power cycles we go through. Only if the units are off for an undetermined long time will they re-establish connection to one another.

I've been in touch with Blackmagic Design technical support and they have suggested I send the units to them so they can have a look.

Ursa G2s and up-to-date firmware on each device here too.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostThu Mar 31, 2022 3:03 pm

It aint your fault.. I hear these problems about once a week from different companies that all thoughed they now have a nice system with Smpte fiber.. Seems the G1 works fairly steady but not the G2..
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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coyutbm

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostMon Apr 04, 2022 6:34 am

Really looking forward to get this hopefully fixed by firmware.
Sometimes it takes a long time until they are conected sometimes we need to plugin them again again and restart to get recognized.

Once they run and are connected they run fine.
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Knut Bussian

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostWed Apr 06, 2022 9:28 am

It would also be nice to hear, if BMD is aware of this behaviour and is working on it.

I think there are a lot of G1 owners wanting to upgrade - but not for the worse...

- Knut
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MitchellNeth

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostThu Apr 07, 2022 4:43 pm

I've had this issue for years with the G1 and the CFC/SFC. What became our SOP for best results was to have both ends of the camera chain connected and then power the SFC.

If that still didn't yield results, plug a 4 pin DC 12v Power Supply into the camera body, it will power the CFC as well, then power the SFC and as it's not trying to complete the power handshake, the optical handshake will 9 times out of 10 take and allow the chain to operate. Then it's a matter of seeing if it decides to stay powered through the 311 cable after unplugging the 12v PS.
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jarihakkarainen

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostMon May 23, 2022 2:44 pm

It seems a way to make the connection work is to first have the camera power switch turned to the on position and the fiber cable connected on both ends before turning on power to the Studio Fiber Converter. This has seemed to work without failing lately. But... this works only the first time power is turned on. If you power down the SFC and soon turn it on again, connection will not re-establish. Only after having the SFC turned off for an undetermined time (an hour or two or three) will the units connect again.
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jim.chase

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostTue May 31, 2022 4:43 pm

Yep, it is a nightmare. I am also having this problem. Brand new studio fiber converter and camera fiber converter! All the firmware is up-to-date. Have yet to get the system working. I'm going to leave the studio fiber converters on for several hours and try it again.
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jim.chase

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 7:25 pm

Left it on overnight with same results. I have a theory that the "everything is OK" fiber handshaking between the Studio Converter and the Camera Converter are not reliably syncing making the connection boot-up sporadic even though all is well with the connection. I have tried multiple SMPTE fiber cables and scoped/cleaned them all, no change. Works great after both units agree that everything is ok. Makes me wonder if rolling back to a previous firmware would fix it. Has anyone tried that?
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Matt Certa

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostThu Jun 02, 2022 2:47 pm

Has anyone tried unplugging and replugging the return video signal from the CCU after seeing it not make a connection? That was a bug/feature a few years ago with the gen 1 cameras.
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coyutbm

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostThu Jun 02, 2022 5:19 pm

We can usally fix it with a couple of replugs/restarts.
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Mritter

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostFri Jun 03, 2022 10:29 pm

Following. We’re thinking of getting there of these cameras in the fall.


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videokadr

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostSat Jun 04, 2022 12:36 pm

I have 2 chains, in first chain startet after 5 s in second after 40 s. After switching again it is normaly working, 5 i 40 sec. Becouse the curent electricity goes on for a long time :lol: I think so. And it is not the fault of the converters but the fault of the camera, I noticed that the camera supply voltage matters, below a certain value the camera will not work. The power suply of BM gives a voltage of 12.26 V, directly conected to URSA is working well, but when I extend the low voltage cable by 20 m (2x 4 mm2) voltage drop by 0.01V then the camera does not turn on and then I have to use another power supply with 15V at the output.

I have oter bloblem I can't close the iris completely with the panel control, the indicator shows close, but the iris is not completely closed I tried to use the range knobs, nothing helps, is there any regulation?
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Mike Ambrose

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostSat Jun 04, 2022 2:19 pm

After boot try unplugging and plugging the lens back in. I've had iris problems with the UBG2 and that fixes it.
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Brian Scheffler

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostMon Jun 20, 2022 8:49 pm

We're a Blackmagic dealer and our client just purchased 5 URSA Broadcast G2 fiber chains. We've sold many of these cameras and previously owned the original Broadcast version ourselves. However, none of the 5 chains is actually powering up the cameras.

For those of you experiencing these issues in this thread, does the camera actually power on? Because these don't seem to be powering the camera. The Studio Converter successfully powers the Fiber Converter back (we can hear the fan) but it doesn't seem to pass power to the camera. Is that what others are experiencing as well?
Brian Scheffler
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justincastille

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostTue Jun 28, 2022 4:59 pm

Hey Y’all,

Have the issues been resolved with connectivity? I’m considering getting the fiber bundle for my 3 G2s and I don’t want to drop the money if the chain is still not working. Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
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jim.chase

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostTue Jun 28, 2022 10:23 pm

I just sent our Camera Fiber Convertors back a second time. I would say it is still a problem! Hoping this gets solved soon!!
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Xtreemtec

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostWed Jun 29, 2022 7:19 am

justincastille wrote:Hey Y’all,

Have the issues been resolved with connectivity? I’m considering getting the fiber bundle for my 3 G2s and I don’t want to drop the money if the chain is still not working. Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

I know of 2 companies that returned and sold the units as they were too unreliable at the moment and bought a different system.

As current issues are still there i can not recommend anyone the Studio Fiber system at the moment. :|
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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justincastille

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostTue Jul 05, 2022 2:46 pm

Thank you! Definitely saved me a headache! Do you have any recommendations on different fiber systems to use with the G2 broadcasts? I’m trying not to use power cables/batteries if possible. Having 1 cable for everything would be awesome!

Thanks!!

Justin
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Xtreemtec

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostTue Jul 05, 2022 3:10 pm

We use the Camback4K from BroadcastGear that is full 12G, Has network for IP based intercom systems.
And works on the same SMPTE fiber as BMD units do.


Or Multidyne or Erica but they are both more expensive then the BMD SMPTE system.
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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wgrenier

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostTue Jul 05, 2022 10:52 pm

Looking into new camera chains, FO backs....but going to hold off a bit.
As far as FO camera backs/ ccu units, we have ordered( backordered) the multidyne units for our Sony smpt chains. Still unknown delivery date. Was hoping better results with the BMD units. I hear the bluebell units perform well at less cost...anyone review?

Thanks,

Walt


***********************
Update::
********************
After waiting forever for a demo unit, Tech manager purchased a G2/ Fiber backs and base unit.
So far its working as advertised.
Just tied in the camera control unit...and its working.

Now the big question.

One of our annual gigs is 7 stages spread across a 90 ac festival park.
There is fiber infrastructure running to all stages.

I was in the forums asking about SHED's and Rowan Lee corrected some mis-understading I had about the IP based transport of control/tally/coms........and It got me thinking.....

Using the studio converter at the control base camp, would you recommend a 12G fiber convertor connected to the Fiber base unit or a BMD camera convertor to get the signals on to the existing fiber?

The base unit would be a source of "local" power with smpt out to the G2- either the 12G or camera convertor out to house fiber then the studio convertor to break out all SDI/ RET/Tally/COMS at base camp ......thoughts or recommendations?
Last edited by wgrenier on Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Elyeverton

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostFri Jul 08, 2022 1:53 pm

wgrenier wrote:Looking into new camera chains, FO backs....but going to hold off a bit.
As far as FO camera backs/ ccu units, we have ordered( backordered) the multidyne units for our Sony smpt chains. Still unknown delivery date. Was hoping better results with the BMD units. I hear the bluebell units perform well at less cost...anyone review?

Thanks,

Walt


Probably a problem with the camera.
I use 3 Ursa G2, 2 we work a 100%, but the 3rd doesn´t work 100%.
In the 3rd Ursa G2, addition to taking a while to turn on, when it turns on it appears as if it has no battery(The option [FIBER] does not appear, that is, powered by FIBER.), this message shows on the display above in the photo.
I have already changed the fiber and the problem persists.
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JoergCologne

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostSat Aug 06, 2022 1:20 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:
I know of 2 companies that returned and sold the units as they were too unreliable at the moment and bought a different system.

As current issues are still there i can not recommend anyone the Studio Fiber system at the moment. :|


I should have read this discussion earlier and I probably wouldn't have bought the G2 and the Fiber Converters.

2 x URSA Broadcast G2 - great

2 x Camera Converter - one was DOA. Mediatec in Cologne exchanged it immediately.

2 x Studio Converters - one was DOA and was also exchanged by Mediatec. The exchange device is DOA as well and will hopefully be exchanged again on Monday.

:(

I heard from Mediatec that there is a solution for the camera converter: a special beta software is available. Ask your dealer
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JoergCologne

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostTue Aug 09, 2022 6:48 pm

JoergCologne wrote:
2 x Studio Converters - one was DOA and was also exchanged by Mediatec. The exchange device is DOA as well and will hopefully be exchanged again on Monday.

..

I heard from Mediatec that there is a solution for the camera converter: a special beta software is available. Ask your dealer



the third Studio converter DOA and the fourth one? DOA ;)

but there is this Camera 7.9 SMPT/E Patch and with this patch the second converter works now.

what a nightmare!

The question now is: do I install the 7.91 from the website - does it contain this SMPT/E fix or do I have to wait?


EDIT: ist worked a few times and then it does not establish a connection anymore. Update to the newest firmware fixed the issue. Fiber converter updated from 1.3 to 2.0
Last edited by JoergCologne on Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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videokadr

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostTue Aug 23, 2022 9:38 am

I noticed that converters establish connection usually after 4-5 seconds, then URSA should be turned on and after another 4-5 seconds the image reaches the SFC.
But some CFCs with SFCs take a long time, even a few minutes, but they will always connect
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Matt Certa

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostThu Aug 25, 2022 1:58 pm

very curious if the camera patch released today fixes a lot of these issues!
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tedwards

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostMon Aug 29, 2022 6:14 pm

I am working with a similar setup. I managed to get the camera side updated to 2.03 but the studio side does register needing an update and is at 1.33. Once powered on, the fiber light on the camera side blinks red for a moment and then goes out, the power light stays red. No matter of turning off and back on yields different results. I have tries different SMTPE fibers and cleaning with no avail. At no point does the camera power on either. thoughts?
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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostWed Sep 28, 2022 2:34 pm

Similar stories to everyone here with quality control and connection issues.

We bought 6 complete chains, G1 cams, SMPTE backs, CCU's, Camera top Monitors and eyepiece viewfinders.
6 of everything. At this time, 2 years later,
2 of 6 cams have died, image went black and never came back.
4 of 6 Studio Fiber (CCU's) have died. They die by not powering on at all, no lights, no clicks inside nothing.
3 of 6 Eyepiece viewfinders died. No power, likely the flimsy power termination.
3 of 6 Cam top Monitors have died. Every time it's the HDSDI connection. You can wiggle it tog et picture for a sec..
3 of 6 SMPTE fiber camera backs have died. Their fatal flaw is the swivel SMPTE connection. Swivel up, lose connection, whole camera reboots.

The biggest issue we had regarding connecting the camera to the studio fiber successfully was, as reported here, intermittent lights and behaviors. My fix for almost every connection issue was to re-clock the 2nd SDI cable while powered on and connected. 9 times out of 10 that would push the green lights for video and power. If not, a reboot after doing so will usually fix it. Keep in mind that expensive Sony chains have SMPTE issues sometimes as well, so re-stabbing the SMPTE on both ends is necessary at times.

My conclusion is that these cameras are a cool cost solution where BM had great intent, however the quality control and quality overall missed the mark entirely. I believe that within 2 years from now, every item in our $90k order will be dead. BM should have a 5 year warranty on this stuff so as to keep us up and running without going elsewhere. The Sony FB80 seems to be where we will go with our cam chains next.
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Asgeir Hustad

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 6:53 am

FYI: Seems like there has been some research into the SMPTE-issues with the G2's and the Fiber Converters

https://www.reddit.com/r/VIDEOENGINEERI ... sa_camera/
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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostFri Sep 30, 2022 7:09 am

brianone20 wrote:My conclusion is that these cameras are a cool cost solution where BM had great intent, however the quality control and quality overall missed the mark entirely. I believe that within 2 years from now, every item in our $90k order will be dead. BM should have a 5 year warranty on this stuff so as to keep us up and running without going elsewhere.


It's all rather concerning Brian. Whilst my UBG2 has been good so far I did have a VF arrive DOA, the 2nd one has held up so far. I think the build quality is amazing for the price but QC, as you say is often a concern. Or rather I think, field testing to destruction at the factory, as Arri and other manufacturers do, rather than leave that to us. Studio use seems to be the toughest test and therefore, the highest point of fail with these products.

There's only so much you can do with QC on individual products leaving a factory, to ensure they work correctly, whereas subjecting samples to extreme conditions and laboratory ageing, will discover engineering and design fail points, much more surely - it would drive up the prices though through development costs.

I think what is needed is 3rd party approved extended warranties, that many of us would be prepared to pay for.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostFri Sep 30, 2022 11:19 am

DOA's on the VF are pretty common.. I had 2 out of 5 arrive DOA. And i know a buddy of mine that after returning several monitors several times. Then requested to get the Wire looms on spare so he could replace them himself.. :(
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jarihakkarainen

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostThu Oct 20, 2022 9:48 am

Has anyone tested yet whether the latest Camera Update 7.9.2 (including update for the Camera Fiber Converter) has fixed this issue?
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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostFri Feb 03, 2023 10:01 pm

Just came back here to see if anyone else had similar experiences and it appears so.
We just had another CCU and SMPTE back die. We physically BABY these units. I need 6 units running so I now drop another 7k on the CCU+SMPTE back. At this point I could have bough SONY FB80 chains and saved money. We rented the FB80's a month ago and my engineer's loved them. 4k, SMPTE integrated into the design. They have a strange voltage however so traditional shed/HDX box setup do not work with the FB80. Oh well, this whole experience has been very depressing to be honest. Could have put a down payment on a house with the replacement purchases by now....

Steve Fishwick wrote:
brianone20 wrote:My conclusion is that these cameras are a cool cost solution where BM had great intent, however the quality control and quality overall missed the mark entirely. I believe that within 2 years from now, every item in our $90k order will be dead. BM should have a 5 year warranty on this stuff so as to keep us up and running without going elsewhere.


It's all rather concerning Brian. Whilst my UBG2 has been good so far I did have a VF arrive DOA, the 2nd one has held up so far. I think the build quality is amazing for the price but QC, as you say is often a concern. Or rather I think, field testing to destruction at the factory, as Arri and other manufacturers do, rather than leave that to us. Studio use seems to be the toughest test and therefore, the highest point of fail with these products.

There's only so much you can do with QC on individual products leaving a factory, to ensure they work correctly, whereas subjecting samples to extreme conditions and laboratory ageing, will discover engineering and design fail points, much more surely - it would drive up the prices though through development costs.

I think what is needed is 3rd party approved extended warranties, that many of us would be prepared to pay for.
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mix effects

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostSat Feb 04, 2023 3:45 pm

Hello everyone!

I got very weird and annoying issues with ursa G2 and SFC and CFC…

Power is ok but fiber never goes green on the SFC even if the CFC il green both power and fiber.

So no image coming from the cam but data through return is ok…

After multiple power cycle and a night off it works…

Other issuer cams SFC CFC run well then after a wile we lost the image fiber goes red on the SFC and comes back to green with the image a minute later ?! I tested everything cable other SFC CFC cam… no clear solution…

Finally it works but I did not identify the issue

Other issue a cam is well connected we got the image everything green but after a wile red on air blinks and return program is blocked. it automatically switches even if I press the return button, PGM return feed switches automatically after a wile in the VF ( front SDI ) and on the LCD.

Does anyone have a clue it will be very appreciated!

Cheers
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Xtreemtec

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostMon Feb 06, 2023 8:19 am

Great product. :lol: Glad we switched them out for a different Fiber system which has been reliable for over a year now we run it now.
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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Raphaël Jacquot

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostMon Feb 06, 2023 9:43 am

from what I read it's mostly a problem related to incompatible SFP+ devices, which fs.com sell for $30 or so...
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Xtreemtec

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Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostMon Feb 06, 2023 10:03 am

Raphaël Jacquot wrote:from what I read it's mostly a problem related to incompatible SFP+ devices, which fs.com sell for $30 or so...

Not really true.. Yes there has been a couple of SFP issues which BMD will gladly fix for you by sending them RMA and get them back with other SFP's.

But it does not solve a whole lot of other issues.. Power not starting up is not an SFP issue.

Resetting and letting units power down overnight in the hope they will boot again is not an SFP issue.

Random weird behaviour in switching between PGM and video feeds is not an SFP issue.

Soft intercom is not an SFP issue. ;)

Sorry but seen so many issues on these already that we do not trust them anymore for field work.
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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videokadr

  • Posts: 150
  • Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:17 pm
  • Location: Poland
  • Real Name: Jacek Niewadzi

Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostWed Feb 08, 2023 12:44 pm

I reported this problem to Blackmagic after reading an article about replacing SFP modules. Very quickly Blackmagic sent me new recommended OptoMedia SFP modules. But before that I used modules from Serene Nexus and everything started to work properly. I have 4 full chains and each CFC works with each SFC.
8 cameras OBVAN HD/4K, low prices, working EU area, videokadr@wp.pl
Jacek Niewadzi
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wgrenier

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  • Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:55 pm
  • Real Name: Walt Grenier

Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostSat Jul 01, 2023 4:58 am

3 G2, SMPTe fiber backs and bases, 4k studio, 2ME surface, camera controller.....
everything worked fine since set....tonight, 1 chain would not connect. swapped everything around known camera & cables to different bases- some good, some not. Couldnt track suspects because everytime something else. powered everything down 1- 2 hrs. went back to trouble shooting...all cams and backs talk . Went through to check firmware. SMPTe backs ask for updates, but fail to connect. The cams all updated as expected, view finders same.... 2 bases are asking for new firmware, 1 was up to date....

Is there a trick I dont know about to force firmware updates?

Thanks.....
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Ben Harper

  • Posts: 36
  • Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:56 pm

Re: New URSA G2 + Fiber Bundle Nightmare

PostTue Jul 18, 2023 10:35 am

Once we upgraded the firmware and the SFPs to the OptoMedia all our issues seem to be resolved.

Are you connecting to the computer to update? When we plugged them in the windows software triggered the update.

Thanks,
Ben

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