Have I made an expensive mistake? 4K live setup

Questions about ATEM Switchers, Camera Converter and everything live!
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petaks01

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Have I made an expensive mistake? 4K live setup

PostThu Jun 30, 2022 12:23 pm

Putting together a setup for our lecture hall and have ordered a Television Studio Pro 4K as our switcher.

Cameras, Hyperdecks, Web Presenters and the other magic boxes have no issues but the
thing I may have missed was the specs on the SmartScope Duo 4K 2 that apparently DON'T
accept 12G SDI :o

My intentions were to route the preview to the AUX and feed the scopes with it for our PTZ camera guy
so he can adjust stuff on the fly. He has 5 cameras to play with and we would appreciate if we could
have them reasonably matched.

Am I screwed before the goodies even have arrived?
Sure, we could go down with the overall format to 2160p/25 but it feels like a massive waste of
money as the rest of the kit is good for 50 fps.

Any good ideas out there?
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rogersuski

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Re: Have I made an expensive mistake? 4K live setup

PostFri Jul 01, 2022 5:45 pm

Perhaps it is a blessing in disguise, dropping to 25p - you will reduce your storage requirements by half - and for talking head may not be noticeable anyway.

However, another option would be to put a down convert/teranex/decimator on your Aux output to get to 3G level B for your scope.
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: Have I made an expensive mistake? 4K live setup

PostFri Jul 01, 2022 7:16 pm

Using a down converter is probably the easiest option, but if you want to monitor in 12G SDI natively, you might consider the Video Assist 7" 12G HDR. I think it's a slightly smaller screen than SmartScope Duo (which I believe has 8" screens), but has some similar monitoring features (parade, waveform, vectorscope, histogram). And it can also double as a video recorder. If you wanted two screens you'd need two Video Assists, and could loop out from one unit to the other or send a separate signal to the second screen.

Another option is the Teranex Mini SDI to HDMI 8K (or SDI to DisplayPort 8K) which has a scopes overlay feature that allows for displaying up to 2 scopes as overlays on the input video. In that case you'd need a separate 4K-capable HDMI or DisplayPort monitor, but this would allow you to monitor the video on a much larger screen at full resolution and frame rate (especially in contrast to the SmartScope screens that are only 480p).
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petaks01

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Re: Have I made an expensive mistake? 4K live setup

PostFri Jul 01, 2022 8:18 pm

Excellent, the easy solution I need to look closer at would be the "Teranex Mini – 12G–SDI to Quad SDI" if I read the specs right so I can get a Single link 3G or 6G SDI out. Would have preferred a real scope but it has too many buttons for the "trained monkeys" students that will run the show eventually :lol:

I appreciate you taking the time to find suitable fixes.

Regarding larger monitors the space is the issue as we already have two 28" above the 4U desktop rack units in a way too small room.
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Daniel Binder

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Re: Have I made an expensive mistake? 4K live setup

PostSat Jul 02, 2022 10:03 am

As mentioned before, a Decimator 4K would probably do the trick. I prefer them over the Teranex minis since the Decimators are fanless.

Additional thought. Instead of routing the ATEM preview to the scopes through an AUX, maybe check if you can get your PTZ controller to switch an AUX output directly. We are using Sony BRC series PTZs, and our RM-IP500 controller is connected through a little helper box from Skaarhoj to the ATEM and switches an AUX channel. Meaning, what the PTZ operator sees on the scopes, is the camera that is currently selected on the PTZ controller. In my opinion, the better solution, as it gives control to the PTZ operator and makes it independent from the live switch.

The little Skaarhoj box basically reads the GPIO signals from the Sony RM-IP500 controller and tells the ATEM to switch an AUX accordingly. This would be the box: https://www.skaarhoj.com/product/eth-gpi-link
I would think something similar should work with Panasonic controllers too. If you use a Skaarhoj controller to begin with, you can do this without extra hardware.

Cheers,
Daniel
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David_Anderson

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Re: Have I made an expensive mistake? 4K live setup

PostMon Jul 04, 2022 2:43 pm

Just a thought but why do you need 50FPS? Unless I'm shooting something with the ability to slow it down (2x) in post, or some high speed event (sports) I find shooting at higher frame rates to be a waste of resources.

Just because it can shoot in 50P doesn't mean you should shoot in 50P.

Hope this helps.

Best,

David
David Anderson
Leading Edge Multimedia
https://leadingedgemultimedia.com
(888) 336-LEMM
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petaks01

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Re: Have I made an expensive mistake? 4K live setup

PostMon Jul 04, 2022 4:25 pm

Sorry for the apparent lack of response to your posts, the new user moderation thing is making it hard to reply as it takes days to approve the reply.

We are using Panasonic AW-UE100 cameras and the AW-RP60 PTZ controller.
The reason for 50 fps is silly but a decision the guys and gals with the wallet made
early in the process. Personally I don't see it being used more than once with a lot of
issues at the other end of the stream.

Only time I see the "need" for the high fps is when the setup is used locally to send
the program to the second lecture hall projector to allow for more participants and
2-way communication between these rooms during the Q&A part.
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David_Anderson

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Re: Have I made an expensive mistake? 4K live setup

PostThu Jul 07, 2022 2:13 am

Challenge the people with the wallets to show you the difference between 25 and 50 FPS to their naked eyes with talking heads.

High FPS will do nothing for sending a feed to a 2nd lecture hall. If you're not doing sports or shooting something creative that would give you the latitude to slow it down to half speed in post then it's useless. All you are doing is using more bandwidth, disk space and resources and gaining nothing.

Shoot at 25FPS and don't fight it. I shoot everything at 29.97 unless it's sports.

Best,

David

petaks01 wrote:Sorry for the apparent lack of response to your posts, the new user moderation thing is making it hard to reply as it takes days to approve the reply.

We are using Panasonic AW-UE100 cameras and the AW-RP60 PTZ controller.
The reason for 50 fps is silly but a decision the guys and gals with the wallet made
early in the process. Personally I don't see it being used more than once with a lot of
issues at the other end of the stream.

Only time I see the "need" for the high fps is when the setup is used locally to send
the program to the second lecture hall projector to allow for more participants and
2-way communication between these rooms during the Q&A part.
David Anderson
Leading Edge Multimedia
https://leadingedgemultimedia.com
(888) 336-LEMM
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petaks01

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  • Real Name: Peter Aksberg

Re: Have I made an expensive mistake? 4K live setup

PostThu Jul 07, 2022 5:41 am

David_Anderson wrote:Shoot at 25FPS and don't fight it. I shoot everything at 29.97 unless it's sports.


I will try my best to convince them as I don't see the need either.
All our previous recordings made there with camcorders were delivered in 25fps and
we never got complaints ;)

I appreciate all of your inputs and will continue my staycation with less worries
about the little mismatch and hope that you get some time off work to recharge too.

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