Some way to export timecode from Atem Mini Pro?

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Tbaker

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Some way to export timecode from Atem Mini Pro?

PostFri May 29, 2020 6:45 pm

So I have an Atem mini pro and 4 BMPCC4K and am using them to livestream from my studio... But I also have other cameras and go Pro which Id like to be able to sync up as well.. I have timecode systems pulse and Ultrasync Ones as well as syncbak pro's How can I jam or output the timecode from mini pro to them or vice versa either would work

Is there a way to export timecode out of the 4k's that get the timecode from mini pro? Not the end of the world but would be great if I could accomplish this

Thanks!
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Ian Morrish

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Re: Some way to export timecode from Atem Mini Pro?

PostFri May 29, 2020 7:31 pm

I have a Windows application that creats an edl file of the cuts using the Atem time code.
This free version has no configuration options. It just starts a new capture when you run it on the same pc that has Atem software installed and it closes the file when you stop it.

When importing it in resolve you can specify an offset.
You can use Excel to manipulate if required.

https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21A ... 29C3A8A991

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Regards,
Ian Morrish
Video Integrated Scripting Environment
(Windows PowerShell with ATEM driver + more)
https://ianmorrish.wordpress.com
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: Some way to export timecode from Atem Mini Pro?

PostFri May 29, 2020 9:33 pm

Unfortunately the ATEM Mini doesn't have an LTC timecode input port. And while it is possible to manually set the initial timecode of the ATEM's built-in timecode generator via the ATEM Software or the SDK, I haven't found setting timecode this way to be accurate enough for synchronization purposes as it can take half a second or so for the timecode preset to take effect.

So that leaves a couple of options:

Option 1: Don't rely on the ATEM Mini timecode generator at all. The Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K and 6K can accept LTC timecode via their audio inputs, so you can use this as the timecode source along with an external timecode generator like the UltraSync One as your timecode master. In this setup, if you use the internal H.264 recording on the ATEM Mini Pro, it will not have the correct timecode, so you might need to use a separate external recorder that you can feed LTC timecode to, or manually sync the H.264 recording with in-camera recordings.

Option 2: Use the ATEM Mini timecode generator as your timecode master and extract LTC timecode from the HDMI output. While the ATEM Mini Pro does embed timecode on its HDMI output, there aren't a ton of great options for extracting timecode from an HDMI video source (in part because HDMI timecode was a bit of an add-on and not an official part of the original HDMI specs). So I think the easiest way to extract this timecode may actually involve two converters: a Mini Converter UpDownCross HD to convert from HDMI to SDI while preserving timecode and a Teranex Mini SDI to HDMI or (SDI to Audio) to extract timecode from the SDI signal and output it in LTC format.

Note that not all HDMI to SDI converters handle HDMI timecode conversion, but the UpDownCross HD claims to. And while I wish that there were more affordable SDI timecode readers or extractors than the Teranex Mini, unfortunately I'm not aware of any.

I really wish Blackmagic provided a way to sync the ATEM's internal timecode generator via one of the ATEM audio inputs, as that would make all of this a lot simpler. And this would be useful for all of the ATEM models without dedicated LTC timecode input ports, including the ATEM Television Studio HD and 4K or the ATEM 1 M/E Production Studio which may be used on larger productions where timecode usage is more common.
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poucedeleon

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Re: Some way to export timecode from Atem Mini Pro?

PostFri Jul 29, 2022 6:45 pm

This could be a viable solution to getting timecode out of the ATEM Mini. I have both of these converters in a fly-pack. I am going to take this out tonight and see if this produces the expected results. I agree It would be so nice if Blackmagic Design would push a firmware update that allow the Mic 2 input to send TC to the ATEM internal generator.
Thanks Dave


Option 2: Use the ATEM Mini timecode generator as your timecode master and extract LTC timecode from the HDMI output. While the ATEM Mini Pro does embed timecode on its HDMI output, there aren't a ton of great options for extracting timecode from an HDMI video source (in part because HDMI timecode was a bit of an add-on and not an official part of the original HDMI specs). So I think the easiest way to extract this timecode may actually involve two converters: a Mini Converter UpDownCross HD to convert from HDMI to SDI while preserving timecode and a Teranex Mini SDI to HDMI or (SDI to Audio) to extract timecode from the SDI signal and output it in LTC format.

Note that not all HDMI to SDI converters handle HDMI timecode conversion, but the UpDownCross HD claims to. And while I wish that there were more affordable SDI timecode readers or extractors than the Teranex Mini, unfortunately I'm not aware of any.

I really wish Blackmagic provided a way to sync the ATEM's internal timecode generator via one of the ATEM audio inputs, as that would make all of this a lot simpler. And this would be useful for all of the ATEM models without dedicated LTC timecode input ports, including the ATEM Television Studio HD and 4K or the ATEM 1 M/E Production Studio which may be used on larger productions where timecode usage is more common.
Kevin Young
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poucedeleon

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Re: Some way to export timecode from Atem Mini Pro?

PostFri Jul 29, 2022 7:01 pm

Dave,
I just realized I also have a BMD "SDI to Audio" converter. After running the ATEM program feed into the UpDownCross converter, I would then bring that SDI signal into the SDI to Audio converter. What I don't understand is how I get the timecode (LTC) signal into my Timecode System "Pulse"? Do I use one of the analog outputs to LTC input?
Kevin Young
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: Some way to export timecode from Atem Mini Pro?

PostSat Jul 30, 2022 2:20 pm

The Mini Converter SDI to Audio models do not include the LTC timecode extraction feature. Your only output options for the TRS connectors on the Mini Converter SDI to Audio models are either analog or AES/EBU digital audio.

You would need one of the Teranex Mini Converter models (such as the Teranex Mini SDI to HDMI 12G or Teranex Mini SDI to Audio 12G) to get the timecode output capabilities. The Teranex Mini converters support 3 disembedding options for their XLR outputs: analog audio, AES/EBU digital audio, or timecode (LTC). On the Teranex Mini converters you can configure the desired output using the DIP switches (similar to the Mini Converters), using the USB setup utility, or using the front panel menu system (if an optional Teranex Mini Smart Panel is installed).

One other note since that earlier post was written, updated versions of the Micro Converter models were introduced (Micro Converter HDMI to SDI 3G and Micro Converter 12G) and these also support HDMI to SDI timecode conversion. So there are now more options in addition to the Mini Converter UpDownCross HD for handling HDMI timecode conversion.

There still aren't a lot of affordable converters for extracting embedded timecode as LTC from an SDI (or HDMI) video signal though, so the Teranex Mini Converters (SDI to HDMI or SDI to Audio) may still be the best option for that.
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poucedeleon

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Re: Some way to export timecode from Atem Mini Pro?

PostTue Aug 02, 2022 3:20 am

Dave,
Thank you for the info. Sorry this is a bit long winded, but I wanted to explain to anyone else trying to tackle this issue how I got it to work.
I thought I would try and extract the timecode using my AJA ioXT, but I did not have any luck. I assumed since it had HDMI in and reads timecode, it would read the timecode and send it out its LTC timecode port. Unfortunately it did not work. If I plugged in a camera (Canon XF305) via SDI, the ioXT would read the timecode, but when I used HDMI either from the program feed from the ATEM or HDMI from the camera, it did not see it. Earlier today I read your reply, so I went to the "DVEStore" an online seller that is based in my town. So I was able to drive there and pick up the BMD HDMI to SDI 3G micro converter. I then took my Teranex SDI to HDMI converter out of my fly-pack. I sent a HDMI program feed from the ATEM into the micro converter and the SDI out into my Teranex. As soon as I plugged it in I could see the program video and the same timecode as the ATEM. Since I did not have a xlr to bnc cable, I plugged the right channel into my field recorded to see if I could hear a timecode signal. Sure as **** it worked. Once my new cable arrives I will connect it to my Timecode Systems "Pulse" just for kicks, but this is the solution I needed and it only cost me $49.00 for the converter. Thank you for sharing this information.
Kevin Young
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Tbaker

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Re: Some way to export timecode from Atem Mini Pro?

PostTue Aug 02, 2022 2:35 pm

I’m super interested in this as I have some go pro and Panasonic cameras I use with a pulse system and it sucks not being able to sync via tc. With my black magic system. I have 4 P4k and Atem mini pro.

$495 just for the teranex seems a lot but maybe worth it to be able to sync everything up

Please let me know how this works.

Thanks !!


poucedeleon wrote:Dave,
Thank you for the info. Sorry this is a bit long winded, but I wanted to explain to anyone else trying to tackle this issue how I got it to work.
I thought I would try and extract the timecode using my AJA ioXT, but I did not have any luck. I assumed since it had HDMI in and reads timecode, it would read the timecode and send it out its LTC timecode port. Unfortunately it did not work. If I plugged in a camera (Canon XF305) via SDI, the ioXT would read the timecode, but when I used HDMI either from the program feed from the ATEM or HDMI from the camera, it did not see it. Earlier today I read your reply, so I went to the "DVEStore" an online seller that is based in my town. So I was able to drive there and pick up the BMD HDMI to SDI 3G micro converter. I then took my Teranex SDI to HDMI converter out of my fly-pack. I sent a HDMI program feed from the ATEM into the micro converter and the SDI out into my Teranex. As soon as I plugged it in I could see the program video and the same timecode as the ATEM. Since I did not have a xlr to bnc cable, I plugged the right channel into my field recorded to see if I could hear a timecode signal. Sure as **** it worked. Once my new cable arrives I will connect it to my Timecode Systems "Pulse" just for kicks, but this is the solution I needed and it only cost me $49.00 for the converter. Thank you for sharing this information.
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Tbaker

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Re: Some way to export timecode from Atem Mini Pro?

PostWed Aug 03, 2022 4:24 pm

I went ahead and ordered one from amazon and applied for the amazon card and saved $200 bucks And I didnt even use the amazon card lol.

I have 9 different cameras I can sync up easy if this works

Tbaker wrote:I’m super interested in this as I have some go pro and Panasonic cameras I use with a pulse system and it sucks not being able to sync via tc. With my black magic system. I have 4 P4k and Atem mini pro.

$495 just for the teranex seems a lot but maybe worth it to be able to sync everything up

Please let me know how this works.

Thanks !!


poucedeleon wrote:Dave,
Thank you for the info. Sorry this is a bit long winded, but I wanted to explain to anyone else trying to tackle this issue how I got it to work.
I thought I would try and extract the timecode using my AJA ioXT, but I did not have any luck. I assumed since it had HDMI in and reads timecode, it would read the timecode and send it out its LTC timecode port. Unfortunately it did not work. If I plugged in a camera (Canon XF305) via SDI, the ioXT would read the timecode, but when I used HDMI either from the program feed from the ATEM or HDMI from the camera, it did not see it. Earlier today I read your reply, so I went to the "DVEStore" an online seller that is based in my town. So I was able to drive there and pick up the BMD HDMI to SDI 3G micro converter. I then took my Teranex SDI to HDMI converter out of my fly-pack. I sent a HDMI program feed from the ATEM into the micro converter and the SDI out into my Teranex. As soon as I plugged it in I could see the program video and the same timecode as the ATEM. Since I did not have a xlr to bnc cable, I plugged the right channel into my field recorded to see if I could hear a timecode signal. Sure as **** it worked. Once my new cable arrives I will connect it to my Timecode Systems "Pulse" just for kicks, but this is the solution I needed and it only cost me $49.00 for the converter. Thank you for sharing this information.
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poucedeleon

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Re: Some way to export timecode from Atem Mini Pro?

PostFri Aug 12, 2022 1:27 am

Today I was able to pull my Teranex Mini SDI to HDMI convert out of my fly pack. As mention earlier these are expensive pieces, so I am going to replace it in my ATEM Television Studio HD fly pack with a Micro SDI to HDMI, Since all it does is split the Aux Out to both an SDI & HDMI on the patch panel. Back to the issue.
As I said before, I come out of the ATEM Program into a Micro HDMI to SDI 3G converter, them I use a SDI cable into the Teranex SDI to HDMI converter. The Teranex converter shows the same time code as the ATEM output does.
Cables:
I ordered a Laird XLR to BNC cable from Marketek. My intention was to get the timecode from the right audio output, which has been configured to output timecode, then into the Pulse’s Sync/TC BNC. Unfortunately I could not get timecode out, more research to follow.
I also had another timecode cable I bought on Amazon. This cable is 5 pin Lemo to BNC In & Out. For the purpose of this test, I plugged that cable into the Timecode port, and used a barrel connector to connect the two BNC ends together. Looks like I will need to fine a XLR to 5pin Lemo cable.
I have posted pictures of the connection. While recording video for this post I noticed the time code seems to be off by one frame.

VIDEO:
https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/03dY ... _Frame_off

PICTURES;
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Please let me know if you have any more questions or need something particular tested.
Last edited by poucedeleon on Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Kevin Young
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Howard Roll

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Re: Some way to export timecode from Atem Mini Pro?

PostFri Aug 12, 2022 4:14 am

Thanks for the post. It looks like the BNC TC/sync port is output only, capable of LTC, word clock, or genlock (nice), whereas the Lemo connector is in/out. The manual on this thing is laborious holy cow!

Good Luck

io.png
io.png (76.65 KiB) Viewed 1070 times
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Tbaker

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Re: Some way to export timecode from Atem Mini Pro?

PostFri Aug 12, 2022 1:20 pm

I have the same setup except I don’t have the faceplate for the teranex. Have not gotten it yo work either

Was so hopeful . Haven’t given up yet. It seems it should be able to work. Have a couple weeks on my return window on the teranex

I have the dipswitch on the teranex set properly to out put tc. Wonder why it is not apparently

Black magic??
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poucedeleon

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Re: Some way to export timecode from Atem Mini Pro?

PostFri Aug 12, 2022 7:48 pm

These are the preferred setting for the Pulse.

Ext-TC TX
:pulse is the master unit and gets its timecode values from an external source, such as a camera (via a LEMO® 5 connector). :pulse then sends its timecode to the slaves in the same BLINK network. If the external timecode source is disconnected, the clock in the :pulse and the slaves 'freeze' at that time.
Ext-TC/C TX
:pulse is the master unit and gets its timecode settings from an external source, such as a camera (via a LEMO® 5 connector). :pulse then sends the timecode to the slaves in the same BLINK network. If the external timecode source is disconnected, the :pulse will use its internal timecode instead. It will send this timecode to the slave
Kevin Young
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poucedeleon

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Re: Some way to export timecode from Atem Mini Pro?

PostFri Aug 12, 2022 7:50 pm

Tbaker wrote:I have the same setup except I don’t have the faceplate for the teranex. Have not gotten it yo work either

Was so hopeful . Haven’t given up yet. It seems it should be able to work. Have a couple weeks on my return window on the teranex

I have the dipswitch on the teranex set properly to out put tc. Wonder why it is not apparently

Black magic??


Are you using a Micro HDMI to SDI 3G converter, as well as your Teranex?
Kevin Young
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Tbaker

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Re: Some way to export timecode from Atem Mini Pro?

PostSat Aug 13, 2022 1:47 pm

poucedeleon wrote:
Tbaker wrote:I have the same setup except I don’t have the faceplate for the teranex. Have not gotten it yo work either

Was so hopeful . Haven’t given up yet. It seems it should be able to work. Have a couple weeks on my return window on the teranex

I have the dipswitch on the teranex set properly to out put tc. Wonder why it is not apparently

Black magic??


Are you using a Micro HDMI to SDI 3G converter, as well as your Teranex?


I’m using the bidirectional version. I also have an earlier micro HDMIto SDI bit it doesn’t say 3G on it
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: Some way to export timecode from Atem Mini Pro?

PostWed Aug 17, 2022 12:46 pm

The original Micro Converter models (without the 3G designation) do not support HDMI to SDI timecode conversion. Only the newer Micro Converter 3G and 12G models have this feature.

Although I don't have a Timecode Systems Pulse to test with, this signal flow does work with other timecode generators I have tried such as a Tentacle Sync E and Timecode Systems UltraSync One:
HDMI signal (with embedded timecode) -> Micro Converter HDMI to SDI 3G/12G -> Teranex Mini SDI to HDMI -> XLR timecode output to timecode generator

A few things to keep in mind:
  • Only the right XLR output on the Teranex Mini Converter supports timecode output.
  • The Teranex Mini Smart Panel (with the LCD screen) is very helpful both for configuring the converter and for monitoring the incoming video signal format (and embedded timecode).
  • If you don't have the Teranex Mini Smart Panel, I would recommend using the Teranex Mini setup utility software on a computer to configure the Teranex converter (this works either over USB or an Ethernet connection on the local network). The setup utility software is much easier than using the DIP switches for configuring the audio/timecode output settings of the Teranex Mini.
  • With the standard faceplate the LED indicator should turn green if a valid input video signal is connected to the Teranex Mini (but you won't be able to know whether that video signal has embedded timecode).
  • You may want to update the Teranex Mini to the latest firmware (using the setup utility) as it's possible that there were some updates that affected input signal compatibility.
  • You'll need an XLR output adapter cable to connect from the Teranex Mini timecode output to the input connector of whatever timecode generator you are using. And you'll need to set the timecode generator to jam sync or timecode input/reader mode.
For the Timecode Systems Pulse, since it sounds like it only accepts timecode input through the 5-pin LEMO connector you will need an XLR female to 5-pin LEMO adapter cable. Timecode Systems sells the TCB-19 cable for this: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... _lemo.html

Assuming Timecode Systems uses the same 5-pin LEMO timecode connector pin configuration as other manufacturers (Ambient, ARRI, Sound Devices, etc.), then you may be able to use other cables for this as well like the Sound Devices XL-LX, Laird SD-TCD4, Remote Audio CATCIO, etc. These LEMO connectors actually only use 3 of the 5 pins for SMPTE timecode (Pin 1 as a common ground, Pin 2 for LTC input, and Pin 5 for LTC output).
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Tbaker

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Re: Some way to export timecode from Atem Mini Pro?

PostSat Aug 27, 2022 1:56 am

Hey all I got it to work! I have my pulse system and ultrasync one's and syncback pros all working with tc from the atem mini pro.

I didnt have any luck syncing the pulse directly.. also I used a fiber optic HDMI cable instead of the normal one I had had no luck with... I was able to sync up an Ultrasync One with an xlr to Bnc adaptor off the teranex . And then I set the pulse to slave and synced it via RF Now everything is hunky dory

I couldnt get the pulse to sync with a cable but this works ok.. Now I can have all nine cameras I own sync up for easy editing!

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