SDI to HDMI 3G (Micro Converter) no 625i50 ?

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Eric-Jan

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SDI to HDMI 3G (Micro Converter) no 625i50 ?

PostSat Aug 13, 2022 11:20 am

I started with the Itensity Shuttle for capturing VHS , this works perfect with my DMR ES35 combo VHS recorder,
no TBC needed in between, so i changed to the Analog to SDI (Mini) converter and from this recording onto the Video Assist, works also fine, but when using the SDI to HDMI 3G Mini Converter to record onto my Hyperdeck Shuttle HD, this will not work, sdi to hdmi supports PAL, but now PAL seems to be > 625i25 and not 625i50 like it normally should be….. why is this ? looking for other solutions for using an BMD product i can't see clearly a solution, because the "PAL" notification is not always working for me this way, also a statement from BMD that all Micro Converters support 625i50 is not true.
What could be the next affordable solution for me to get 625i50 working for me with the Hyperdeck Shuttle HD , without using the Video Assist as passthrough ?
UltraStudio Mini Recorder, Intensity Shuttle, ATEM Mini, Assist 6G, HyperdeckShuttleHD, software: Davinci Resolve 15 on Sierra, Resolve 16 on Catalina. Media Express,. (Using Apple OS 32 & 64 bit on different MacBook Pro's
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ManchesterV

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Re: SDI to HDMI 3G (Micro Converter) no 625i50 ?

PostSat Aug 13, 2022 3:58 pm

Update the firmware for the adapter.
Then play with the settings.
25i is 50i - it's just a very annoying and confusing way of describing the signal
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Eric-Jan

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Re: SDI to HDMI 3G (Micro Converter) no 625i50 ?

PostSun Aug 14, 2022 11:26 am

That would be nice but i got no notification for firmware update, and the prefs also state 625i25….
UltraStudio Mini Recorder, Intensity Shuttle, ATEM Mini, Assist 6G, HyperdeckShuttleHD, software: Davinci Resolve 15 on Sierra, Resolve 16 on Catalina. Media Express,. (Using Apple OS 32 & 64 bit on different MacBook Pro's
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ManchesterV

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Re: SDI to HDMI 3G (Micro Converter) no 625i50 ?

PostSun Aug 14, 2022 12:52 pm

Is it correct that the Output from the adapter is correctly shown on other devices as D1 PAL but only the Hyperdeck doesn't see it properly?

It could also be work checking if the component OUTPUT of the source machine is set to interlaced or progressive. I know the Sony/Pioneer decks can send either over component. We have them set to interlaced when digitising SD content.
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Eric-Jan

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Re: SDI to HDMI 3G (Micro Converter) no 625i50 ?

PostMon Aug 15, 2022 8:49 am

No, source is interlaced, i could only use progressive on my Intensity Shuttle to capture on my macbook.
I have no other SDI source to check 625i25, my VCR (625i50) is the source for my Analog to SDI converter,
this works when connecting to the Video Assist using it's miniSDI input, with a Blackmagicdesign adapter cable.
The SDI to HDMI converter shows also no 625i50 signal on the SDI loop output.
Strange is, that the SDI to HDMI converter, after a reset sets it's default values to accepting illegal values, changing these has also no effect.
In the end, i only want to "record" VHS to my Hyperdeck Shuttle HD, so i do not depend on any current OS/hardware to capture on.
the VHS signal i get from my DMR-ES35V is stable enough, because i can use the Analog to SDI - Video Assist to record, if the SDI to HDMI converter will not work, i will use the Video Assist as a converter i guess just for the moment….
UltraStudio Mini Recorder, Intensity Shuttle, ATEM Mini, Assist 6G, HyperdeckShuttleHD, software: Davinci Resolve 15 on Sierra, Resolve 16 on Catalina. Media Express,. (Using Apple OS 32 & 64 bit on different MacBook Pro's
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Re: SDI to HDMI 3G (Micro Converter) no 625i50 ?

PostMon Aug 15, 2022 11:04 am

Where are you seeing 625i25?

625i/25 is how the EBU describes a picture format with 625 lines, interlaced, at 25 frames per second.
625i50 is how BMD describes a picture format with 625 lines, interlaced, at 50 fields per second.

Both formats are the same, just different, and accepted ways to describe it.

However, there appears to have been a typo on the BMD website at some point, as Google can references to 625i25 (interestingly, pretty much only referring to BMD products), but if you click through to the actual page, it has the correct 625i50 description. Several retailers have the old version of the text in their product description.
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Eric-Jan

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Re: SDI to HDMI 3G (Micro Converter) no 625i50 ?

PostMon Aug 15, 2022 11:24 am

Then this converter should work, but it does not work for me !
Also on the BMD website it's mixed up and it does not hint to frames or fields.
Any Google statement i do not value, i go by the info of BMD says at the converter section : all micro converters are 625i50 compatible, but the specific specs it says 625i25 and this converter just does not work for me, on my Video Assist (3G) i read the signal is 625i50.
Last edited by Eric-Jan on Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
UltraStudio Mini Recorder, Intensity Shuttle, ATEM Mini, Assist 6G, HyperdeckShuttleHD, software: Davinci Resolve 15 on Sierra, Resolve 16 on Catalina. Media Express,. (Using Apple OS 32 & 64 bit on different MacBook Pro's
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Re: SDI to HDMI 3G (Micro Converter) no 625i50 ?

PostMon Aug 15, 2022 1:41 pm

As James points out 625i 25/50 is the same signal the only difference is parlance.

First isolate the issue to the Hyperdeck or the converter, run the hdmi output of the converter to the Video Assist. If the VA can record the hdmi then the problem may lie with the recorder.

Good Luck
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Eric-Jan

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Re: SDI to HDMI 3G (Micro Converter) no 625i50 ?

PostMon Aug 15, 2022 9:49 pm

Howard Roll wrote:As James points out 625i 25/50 is the same signal the only difference is parlance.

First isolate the issue to the Hyperdeck or the converter, run the hdmi output of the converter to the Video Assist. If the VA can record the hdmi then the problem may lie with the recorder.

Good Luck


Already been answered here, please read all posts

Good Luck
UltraStudio Mini Recorder, Intensity Shuttle, ATEM Mini, Assist 6G, HyperdeckShuttleHD, software: Davinci Resolve 15 on Sierra, Resolve 16 on Catalina. Media Express,. (Using Apple OS 32 & 64 bit on different MacBook Pro's
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Eric-Jan

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Re: SDI to HDMI 3G (Micro Converter) no 625i50 ?

PostMon Aug 15, 2022 10:08 pm

codedeltajames wrote:Where are you seeing 625i25?

625i/25 is how the EBU describes a picture format with 625 lines, interlaced, at 25 frames per second.
625i50 is how BMD describes a picture format with 625 lines, interlaced, at 50 fields per second.

Both formats are the same, just different, and accepted ways to describe it.

However, there appears to have been a typo on the BMD website at some point, as Google can references to 625i25 (interestingly, pretty much only referring to BMD products), but if you click through to the actual page, it has the correct 625i50 description. Several retailers have the old version of the text in their product description.


I don't think a typo can have effect on electronics……. :roll:
If you read my previous posts, you will notice that both the Analog to SDI (Mini Converter) and the Hyperdeck Shuttle HD handle 625i50 pretty well, the screen on the Video Assist indicates this also (625i50)
My guess is, the SDI to HDMI 3G (Micro Converter) does not accept the 625i50 signal at it's input, only the power light lights up.
UltraStudio Mini Recorder, Intensity Shuttle, ATEM Mini, Assist 6G, HyperdeckShuttleHD, software: Davinci Resolve 15 on Sierra, Resolve 16 on Catalina. Media Express,. (Using Apple OS 32 & 64 bit on different MacBook Pro's
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Robert Niessner

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Re: SDI to HDMI 3G (Micro Converter) no 625i50 ?

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 6:11 pm

Eric, I have now tried to replicate what you are doing.

My devices:
BMD Teranex AV
2x BMD Bidirectional SDI/HDMI Micro Converter
BMD Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 - recorder
Atomos Shogun Inferno - monitor
SmallHD AC-7 - monitor

The Teranex AV is capable of converting any signal from SD up to UHD over SDI and HDMI. It also does generate a test signal color bar. That's what I used for testing.

First setup:

Teranex AV -> HDMI & SDI out 1080i50
-> SDI/HDMI into Atomos Shogun Inferno <- signal received

Teranex AV -> HDMI & SDI out 625i50 PAL
-> SDI/HDMI into Atomos Shogun Inferno <- NO signal
which is no surprise because AFAIK the Shogun Inferno does only work in HD and UHD


Therefor I was changing out the Atomos for the very old SmallHD AC-7 which does support SD signals:

Teranex AV -> HDMI & SDI out 1080i50
-> SDI/HDMI into SmallHD AC-7 <- signal received

Teranex AV -> HDMI & SDI out 625i50 PAL
-> SDI/HDMI into SmallHD AC-7 <- signal received

And also testing the old BMD Hyperdeck Shuttle 2:

Teranex AV -> HDMI out 625i50 PAL
-> HDMI into Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 <- signal received

Then I inserted the BMD Bidirectional SDI/HDMI Micro Converter into the signal chain:

Teranex AV -> SDI out 1080i50
-> SDI into Bidirectional SDI/HDMI Micro Converter <- signal ?
-> HDMI into SmallHD AC-7 <- NO signal

Teranex AV -> HDMI out 1080i50
-> HDMI into Bidirectional SDI/HDMI Micro Converter <- signal ?
-> SDI into SmallHD AC-7 <- NO signal

the same for the 625i50 PAL signal. Strange - no signal at all.

So change out the converter to the second one (bought a few months later).

Now it works with 1080i50 and 625i50 PAL and in both ways HDMI / SDI.

So either the first micro converter is dead or there is an update I've to do on it. Will check this.
Saying "Thx for help!" is not a crime.
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Robert Niessner
LAUFBILDkommission
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Blackmagic Camera Blog (German):
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Read the blog in English via Google Translate:
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Eric-Jan

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Re: SDI to HDMI 3G (Micro Converter) no 625i50 ?

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 10:56 pm

Thank you ! this is some good detective work, what i now notice, is, that BMD "talks" for SDI input resolutions, it is at 625i50 but on those same devices HDMI has only 625i25 as output resolution, but for any HDMI input 625i50 is used…..
And without telling if these values are frames or fields… because most of the time, i50 is in fields and i25 is in frames.
Also what i noticed, is that a reset on the SDI to HDMI (Micro) converter, sets the default values to accepting illegal level values, i also get no option to update the firmware.
On the SDI loop output i get no signal from the Analog to SDI converter.
Maybe i should start a ticket/email with BMD...
UltraStudio Mini Recorder, Intensity Shuttle, ATEM Mini, Assist 6G, HyperdeckShuttleHD, software: Davinci Resolve 15 on Sierra, Resolve 16 on Catalina. Media Express,. (Using Apple OS 32 & 64 bit on different MacBook Pro's
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Re: SDI to HDMI 3G (Micro Converter) no 625i50 ?

PostWed Aug 17, 2022 12:46 pm

I have now updated both converters but the older one still does not get any signal in and out.
Called my vendor, but alas the converter is out of warranty. It has been sitting on the shelf for the last year and never got used before. Great. At least now I know that I can throw that one away.
Saying "Thx for help!" is not a crime.
--------------------------------
Robert Niessner
LAUFBILDkommission
Graz / Austria
--------------------------------
Blackmagic Camera Blog (German):
http://laufbildkommission.wordpress.com

Read the blog in English via Google Translate:
http://tinyurl.com/pjf6a3m

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