HyperDecks recorded in BT2020?!

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PhotoJoseph

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HyperDecks recorded in BT2020?!

PostWed Sep 02, 2020 7:03 pm

I just installed a bank of HyperDeck Studio Minis to an ATEM 2 M/E. I've got a BMD Studio Camera and a Micro Studio Camera connected to the ATEM, and then routing them to the HyperDecks via the AUX outputs.

I'm shooting in 2160p29.97.

I just did some recording to ProRes LT on the HyperDecks… and all the files are in a BT.2020 color space!

AFAIK the ATEM, nor these, are BT.2020 capable. Certainly the BMD cameras don't even output Log, so there's no point in this. But I can't figure out why they recorded this way!
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Re: HyperDecks recorded in BT2020?!

PostThu Sep 03, 2020 3:51 pm

So to update this situation…

BMD has confirmed that version 7 of the HyperDeck firmware is in fact designed to capture in BT2020, which I'm assuming has to do with support for the new HyperDeck Extreme 8K HDR. For those who might be reading this and don't know, BT2020 or Rec.2020 is the color space for HDR work. Standard color space would be Rec709.

We're unclear why the images look so saturated on my screen, compared to what was live streamed out of the ATEM, so there's something amis happening with this color space being written into the file. The fact that no one else has complained of this is certainly interesting and something we're digging into.

If anyone has any additional insight, I'd love to hear about it. Right now I have to either downgrade all the HyperDecks, or apply an HDR to SDR LUT to each clip recorded. Which doesn't seem right at all.
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Re: HyperDecks recorded in BT2020?!

PostSat Sep 05, 2020 12:08 am

Adding to the fun…

I downgraded one of my HyperDecks to v6, and as expected, it flags the recording as Rec709. Opening two clips in Final Cut Pro X, one from/in v6/Rec709 and one from/in v7/Rec2020, here's the differences. Notice in the top left, the clips are recognized as Rec709 or Rec2020, and you see the same thing in the Color Profile on the right:

Rec709.jpg
Rec709
Rec709.jpg (938.64 KiB) Viewed 2403 times


Rec2020.jpg
Rec2020
Rec2020.jpg (968.56 KiB) Viewed 2403 times


Open both of these clips in Resolve, and they look identical (like Rec709), so Resolve is either ignoring the profile flag or overwriting it.

Ugh.
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Re: HyperDecks recorded in BT2020?!

PostSat Sep 05, 2020 12:17 am

This definitely seems like a bug. It's unclear why the HyperDeck Mini would be marking clips as Rec. 2020 if it's not capable of actually receiving and recording Rec. 2020 input signals.

Is this problem limited to ProRes recordings, or does it also affect DNxHD/DNxHR or H.264 files?
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Re: HyperDecks recorded in BT2020?!

PostSat Sep 05, 2020 2:19 am

Well, I think it is capable of receiving Rec2020 because the v7 upgraded it for some 8K HDR deck. And tagging it Rec2020 isn't a bug, according to BMD — it's by design. Honestly I think the real problem is that someone thought that was a good catch-all color space, and only tested it in Resolve, which ignores or overrides that profile. FCPX does not. Haven't checked Premiere.

I tweeted the question of how to reset the colorspace in a video file; hopefully someone smarter than me figures that out. https://twitter.com/photojoseph/status/ ... 05793?s=20
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Re: HyperDecks recorded in BT2020?!

PostSat Sep 05, 2020 2:23 am

Someone got it!! There's a "Color Space Override" option in FCPX that I couldn't' find earlier

https://twitter.com/parkerdigital/statu ... 47562?s=20

SOLVED!!
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Re: HyperDecks recorded in BT2020?!

PostSat Sep 05, 2020 5:37 pm

I'd wager that you're not using RCM in Resolve, it would respond much the same as FCP.

"Overriding" an improperly assigned color space tag is simply ignoring the problen not solving it. It works because the default is 709. BM should address this issue. There is no need for 709 footage to be tagged 2020. Zero.

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Re: HyperDecks recorded in BT2020?!

PostSat Sep 05, 2020 5:49 pm

I definitely agree with you Howard. And I don’t know how to use Resolve beyond a few very specific things so I have no idea how it’s set up. I agree that the file should not be BT2020 though. Yes if you’re capturing off the 8K constellation in HDR then it’s necessary, but if the HDR flag isn’t coming in with the footage then it should not be getting tagged as such.

I can’t believe no one here has seen this before though.


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Re: HyperDecks recorded in BT2020?!

PostThu Oct 08, 2020 9:05 pm

There is a new version of the HyperDeck firmware out that seems like it might address this issue:
What's new in HyperDeck Setup 7.1.2

Fix for the HyperDeck Studio Mini:
Improves color format metadata support in Ultra HD recordings.

No new features in 7.1.2 for other HyperDeck models.
Downloads available from the Support page:
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/suppor ... -recorders
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Re: HyperDecks recorded in BT2020?!

PostTue Feb 15, 2022 12:58 pm

Is anyone still experiencing this with Version 8.0.3?
It seems we are having this issue without any luts applied, it seems to be adding a saturated colour profile to the recorded file. We are using the Hyperdeck HD Studio Plus units and recording Pro Res, 1080P25.

Any feedback would be appreciated.
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Re: HyperDecks recorded in BT2020?!

PostWed Feb 16, 2022 11:31 pm

mark blackbird wrote:Is anyone still experiencing this with Version 8.0.3?
It seems we are having this issue without any luts applied, it seems to be adding a saturated colour profile to the recorded file. We are using the Hyperdeck HD Studio Plus units and recording Pro Res, 1080P25.

Any feedback would be appreciated.


Haven’t had this problem since they fixed it way back when. What NLE?
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Re: HyperDecks recorded in BT2020?!

PostThu Feb 17, 2022 8:53 am

Hi Joseph
The file shows the Rec 2020 info baked into the file on the SD Card prior to editing.
We do use Resolve, Final Cut and sometimes Premier, but ideally need the file to be REC709 prior to import.
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Re: HyperDecks recorded in BT2020?!

PostTue Feb 22, 2022 10:20 pm

mark blackbird wrote:Hi Joseph
The file shows the Rec 2020 info baked into the file on the SD Card prior to editing.
We do use Resolve, Final Cut and sometimes Premier, but ideally need the file to be REC709 prior to import.


Weird. I just checked mine and am definitely getting rec709. However I honestly don't know what version they are on. There's no way to check, other than plugging into the latest software which will force an update.
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Re: HyperDecks recorded in BT2020?!

PostWed Feb 23, 2022 8:10 am

I too have noticed my Hyperdeck Studio HD Pro has BT2020 Colour Profile,

Not sure what firmware version or if this is indeed correct behaviour?
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Re: HyperDecks recorded in BT2020?!

PostThu Feb 24, 2022 12:08 am

blakelsa wrote:I too have noticed my Hyperdeck Studio HD Pro has BT2020 Colour Profile,

Not sure what firmware version or if this is indeed correct behaviour?


Have you ever updated your firmware? In the middle of this thread they released an update that fixed it, but the latest conversation here is someone reporting that it might be back.
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Re: HyperDecks recorded in BT2020?!

PostWed Aug 10, 2022 11:40 pm

I was (am) still having the same issue with the HyperDeck Extreme 4K and Adobe Premiere. All the footage coming out of the Hyperdecks are in the BT2020 Color Profile and there is no apparent way to change the settings to a REC709 color space.

I feel like BM dropped the ball on this one, as why would you force a color space on everything and everyone across the board without giving an option to change?

Premiere is able to import the footage and display the correct color space only in the source monitor view; as soon as you drop it into a sequence the colors completely change. I also had tried importing the footage to Davinci Resolve and indeed it displayed the correct colors, which made me think it was a Premiere issue. it seems that Premiere in it's current version still does not natively support REC2020, but for some reason it's able to play it back in the source window (but not work with it) as a sequence.

Thanks to your suggestion on the color space override option in FCPX, I found a similar option in Premiere which solves the issue.

If you right click > Interpret Footage > Color Management and set color space override to REC709 everything should go back to normal.

Although I'm happy with the fix, I still think this issue should be resolved by BlackMagic on the upcoming updates to the firmware. REC 709 is still a standard and will remain for the upcoming years.
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Re: HyperDecks recorded in BT2020?!

PostSat Aug 20, 2022 10:12 am

Mario Bautista wrote:I was (am) still having the same issue with the HyperDeck Extreme 4K and Adobe Premiere. All the footage coming out of the Hyperdecks are in the BT2020 Color Profile and there is no apparent way to change the settings to a REC709 color space.


Have you updated the firmware on your recorders? This issue was addressed a long time ago in a software update.
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Re: HyperDecks recorded in BT2020?!

PostSat Aug 20, 2022 2:00 pm

Mario Bautista wrote:I was (am) still having the same issue with the HyperDeck Extreme 4K and Adobe Premiere. All the footage coming out of the Hyperdecks are in the BT2020 Color Profile and there is no apparent way to change the settings to a REC709 color space.
Not sure which HyperDeck model is actually being used here. The HyperDeck Extreme 4K is a new model announced in April 2022 so it certainly could have different firmware from earlier HyperDecks (although I'm guessing it's similar to the HyperDeck Extreme 8K).

Having said that, I don't think the HyperDeck Extreme 4K is actually shipping yet. B&H says initial availability at the end of September and Blackmagic doesn't seem to have posted an updated manual that mentions that model, nor has there been a HyperDeck Setup utility posted that supports the HyperDeck Extreme 4K.

If the model being used is the HyperDeck 4K Pro, that model does support both Rec.709 and Rec.2020. It is supposed to automatically detect the color space to use from the input video signal. But there are also HDR Format Override options in the Setup section of the menu, that let you explicitly set the color space to use for recording and playback (if the Auto setting does not work or the video source is missing metadata or is otherwise flagged incorrectly).
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Re: HyperDecks recorded in BT2020?!

PostFri Sep 30, 2022 1:45 pm

I have the HyperDeck Studio HD Plus and had this same issue. The recording was very saturated and red and my video editor said it was in the BT2020 color space. We fixed it by pressing the Menu button on the HyperDeck, going to Setup, and scrolling down to HDR Format Override. Both Playback and Record were set to Auto, so I changed them both to Rec.709 and that fixed the issue.
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Re: HyperDecks recorded in BT2020?!

PostTue Oct 11, 2022 6:35 pm

Dave Del Vecchio wrote:
Mario Bautista wrote:I was (am) still having the same issue with the HyperDeck Extreme 4K and Adobe Premiere. All the footage coming out of the Hyperdecks are in the BT2020 Color Profile and there is no apparent way to change the settings to a REC709 color space.
Not sure which HyperDeck model is actually being used here. The HyperDeck Extreme 4K is a new model announced in April 2022 so it certainly could have different firmware from earlier HyperDecks (although I'm guessing it's similar to the HyperDeck Extreme 8K).

Having said that, I don't think the HyperDeck Extreme 4K is actually shipping yet. B&H says initial availability at the end of September and Blackmagic doesn't seem to have posted an updated manual that mentions that model, nor has there been a HyperDeck Setup utility posted that supports the HyperDeck Extreme 4K.

If the model being used is the HyperDeck 4K Pro, that model does support both Rec.709 and Rec.2020. It is supposed to automatically detect the color space to use from the input video signal. But there are also HDR Format Override options in the Setup section of the menu, that let you explicitly set the color space to use for recording and playback (if the Auto setting does not work or the video source is missing metadata or is otherwise flagged incorrectly).


It is without a doubt the Hyperdeck Extreme 4K. I don't know if BlackMagic shipped these out ahead of time to the distributor that built our studio, but that's what we've got.

The HDR format override option that you mention is not in my setup section of the menu. It actually has no mention at all of color spaces.
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Re: HyperDecks recorded in BT2020?!

PostTue Oct 11, 2022 6:35 pm

PhotoJoseph wrote:
Mario Bautista wrote:I was (am) still having the same issue with the HyperDeck Extreme 4K and Adobe Premiere. All the footage coming out of the Hyperdecks are in the BT2020 Color Profile and there is no apparent way to change the settings to a REC709 color space.


Have you updated the firmware on your recorders? This issue was addressed a long time ago in a software update.


Were running the latest firmware on them.
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Re: HyperDecks recorded in BT2020?!

PostWed Oct 12, 2022 9:38 am

According to the release notes, the HDR format override feature was added to the HyperDeck Extreme 4K HDR and 8K HDR models in firmware update 8.2 (released September 9, 2022): https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/suppor ... fa0d940271

And according to page 43 of the manual, the Playback and Record HDR Format Override settings should be available on page 6 of the Setup section of the menu: https://documents.blackmagicdesign.com/ ... 2706810000

I'd probably reach out to your local support office if you are running firmware version 8.2 on one of the HyperDeck Extreme models and are not seeing these settings.

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