Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

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ColinMulcahy

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Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostThu Jul 01, 2021 3:58 pm

Hi, Hoping someone can help as I have a big event on Saturday. Having issues with the Web Presenter HD with live streaming.

I'm running 2.1. I've ran numerous tests today to facebook and youtube.

Both YouTube and Facebook are giving me errors that they are not receiving enough video signal and they are buffering.

- The cache is maxing out at 100%.
- Once WPHD is running, and cached out I can't stop the stream. Buttons have no effect.

I have an internet connection - 600MB down and 100 Up.

I also have WOWZA Clearcaster and its running perfectly on the same connection. No issues whats so ever.

Any ideas?
4K setup with 6 x URSA Mini Pro 4.6K (G1 & G2), 2 x BMDPCC 6K, BMD 4/ME Broadcast 4K, 6 x Hyperdeck Studio 12G's, CCU, Advanced Panel with all the other BMD units for Live Production.
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ColinMulcahy

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostThu Jul 01, 2021 4:27 pm

Hi All,

Learning a bit more about this problem.

Apparently this is a known issue. No matter how big your line is. If the latency is too high it will max out on cache. It’s a bmd issue.
4K setup with 6 x URSA Mini Pro 4.6K (G1 & G2), 2 x BMDPCC 6K, BMD 4/ME Broadcast 4K, 6 x Hyperdeck Studio 12G's, CCU, Advanced Panel with all the other BMD units for Live Production.
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mpesavento

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 3:57 am

Had the same problem with my Web Presenter HD. After going live the cache would slowly fill to 100% and then just stay at 100%. The unit displayed "Live" but the the service never received the stream (I tried YouTube, Twitch, and Restream). Turns out the problem was audio. The stream services were waiting for audio data from the WPHD. I turned the audio feed from my camera 'ON' (I was just testing the unit with direct camera input) and now have had no connection issues with any of the stream services. The cache settles nicely at 0-3%.
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Kevin Norris

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostSat Jul 24, 2021 1:57 am

Currently have the exact same issue. Cache goes to 100% and not a single streaming service is picking me up. I am feeding it Video and Audio. No change. Stream quality is currently set to low. Feeding it 1080p 60

Thoughts?


mpesavento wrote:Had the same problem with my Web Presenter HD. After going live the cache would slowly fill to 100% and then just stay at 100%. The unit displayed "Live" but the the service never received the stream (I tried YouTube, Twitch, and Restream). Turns out the problem was audio. The stream services were waiting for audio data from the WPHD. I turned the audio feed from my camera 'ON' (I was just testing the unit with direct camera input) and now have had no connection issues with any of the stream services. The cache settles nicely at 0-3%.
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RobbieBott

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostSun Jul 25, 2021 6:23 am

Have the same issue. Cache starts to fill up and the device basically becomes unresponsive. Has anyone heard anything from BMD as far as a solution goes?

I have a 30Mb/s upload, our Magewell Ultra Stream, which works just fine on this connection.

Can we downgrade firmware?
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RobbieBott

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostSun Jul 25, 2021 6:45 am

RobbieBott wrote:Can we downgrade firmware?


Yes, you can. Download the 2.0 version from their website. Uninstall the 2.1 version, install the 2.0 version, and upon opening the 2.0 version it says there is a firmware update. However, it doesn't help... a $500 paper weight is currently what this thing is.
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Pedro Ruiz Mateos

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostSun Jul 25, 2021 7:25 pm

It's sad but that's the way it is, it's no use to me, I had to buy a vidiu x so as not to fail my clients
Pedro Ruiz Mateos
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Kevin Norris

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostSun Jul 25, 2021 7:28 pm

Now I know why B&H wasn't carrying this product. They didn't want to have to deal with the returns! HA HA
Broadcast Engineering
HDR | Sports | Entertainment
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Pedro Ruiz Mateos

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostSun Jul 25, 2021 7:38 pm

Well yes :D
Pedro Ruiz Mateos
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ColinMulcahy

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostMon Jul 26, 2021 10:07 pm

Update:

I’ve emailed BMD support on a couple of occasions in a very friendly way and sadly they have ignored my emails :-(

I have spent over €1500 and have 3 Web Presenter HD’s that now sit in my studio as paperweights.
4K setup with 6 x URSA Mini Pro 4.6K (G1 & G2), 2 x BMDPCC 6K, BMD 4/ME Broadcast 4K, 6 x Hyperdeck Studio 12G's, CCU, Advanced Panel with all the other BMD units for Live Production.
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RobbieBott

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostThu Jul 29, 2021 9:36 pm

ColinMulcahy wrote:Hi, Hoping someone can help as I have a big event on Saturday. Having issues with the Web Presenter HD with live streaming.

I'm running 2.1. I've ran numerous tests today to facebook and youtube.

Both YouTube and Facebook are giving me errors that they are not receiving enough video signal and they are buffering.

- The cache is maxing out at 100%.
- Once WPHD is running, and cached out I can't stop the stream. Buttons have no effect.

I have an internet connection - 600MB down and 100 Up.

I also have WOWZA Clearcaster and its running perfectly on the same connection. No issues whats so ever.

Any ideas?



Would you by chance be using Ubiquiti network gear? My Web Presenter Streams just fine via my hotspot which has a way crappier service. 15x5 if I'm lucky with latency upwards of 60+.. however, once I connect it to my Unifi UDM Pro it streams for a bit then craps out...
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RobbieBott

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostThu Jul 29, 2021 9:47 pm

Pedro Ruiz Mateos wrote:It's sad but that's the way it is, it's no use to me, I had to buy a vidiu x so as not to fail my clients



UniFi Network gear?
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RobbieBott

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostThu Jul 29, 2021 9:48 pm

Kevin Norris wrote:Currently have the exact same issue. Cache goes to 100% and not a single streaming service is picking me up. I am feeding it Video and Audio. No change. Stream quality is currently set to low. Feeding it 1080p 60

Thoughts?


mpesavento wrote:Had the same problem with my Web Presenter HD. After going live the cache would slowly fill to 100% and then just stay at 100%. The unit displayed "Live" but the the service never received the stream (I tried YouTube, Twitch, and Restream). Turns out the problem was audio. The stream services were waiting for audio data from the WPHD. I turned the audio feed from my camera 'ON' (I was just testing the unit with direct camera input) and now have had no connection issues with any of the stream services. The cache settles nicely at 0-3%.


Unifi/Ubiquiti Network gear?
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Thomas Beck

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostFri Jul 30, 2021 12:40 am

Did the version 3 update fix the problems you all are having with the cache? I am in the same boat. Seems to me they should fix the current version before releasing a new one.
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RobbieBott

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostFri Jul 30, 2021 3:17 am

Thomas Beck wrote:Did the version 3 update fix the problems you all are having with the cache? I am in the same boat. Seems to me they should fix the current version before releasing a new one.


Version 3 firmware is only for the 4k model, however, you can still use the version 3 software to view and edit the HD version.

What is your network gear?
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Johannes Jonsson

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostFri Jul 30, 2021 11:18 am

Have you guys checked if your network settings on your Web presenter are matching the network you are using to stream, DCHP or the static IP settings?
Pretty sure you did, just checking.
Johannes
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alazzerini

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostTue Aug 03, 2021 9:41 pm

Hi!

I'm having the same problem here...I've tried every trick in my book, to no avail. The problem is also not consistent, so I can't replicate it to isolate it. Some times a configuration works, some other it doesn't.

Has anybody found a solution or received a response from BMD?

Cheers!
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Videobegin

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostWed Aug 04, 2021 10:18 am

alazzerini wrote:I've tried every trick in my book.

You may have a box from your internet provider. Have you tryed to connect it in bridge mode ?
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Kevin Norris

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostWed Aug 04, 2021 2:29 pm

Does anyone here have a functioning Web presenter HD?

Thanks
Kevin
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Andy Coulthurst

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostWed Aug 04, 2021 7:12 pm

Kevin Norris wrote:Does anyone here have a functioning Web presenter HD?

Thanks
Kevin

Yes thanks.
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Andy Coulthurst

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostWed Aug 04, 2021 7:44 pm

You may wish to check if your ISP is interfering with your DNS queries as this can sometimes have a detrimental effect.

https://www.dnsleaktest.com/what-is-transparent-dns-proxy.html

My ISP does this , and has a way to disable it.

The interception can be transparent , so even using 8.8.8.8 can be re-directed to their own DNS.
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Thomas Beck

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostSun Aug 08, 2021 9:48 pm

SOLVED

Many of my issues in regards to the video world and particularly streaming is when the video side of things crossed in to the world of the internet. Networking, data rates, ip addresses, etc tend to be what gets me in trouble. This was no different.

In a nutshell the default data rate on the hd presenter for streaming low is around 4mb/s. The venues I have been testing it in for various reasons, can not keep up with that rate resulting in the cache quickly filling and for the stream to fail.

So, I obtained an xml template, loaded it up in and xml editor and set the lowest youtube setting to be safely below what my internets max upload ability is and loaded the file into the web presenter hd. It is now working like a dream. I understand why bmd sets the settings where they do. They assume we all have great internet and they want the results to look good so they set them high.
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pawellygan

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostThu Oct 14, 2021 10:53 am

Thomas Beck wrote:SOLVED

Many of my issues in regards to the video world and particularly streaming is when the video side of things crossed in to the world of the internet. Networking, data rates, ip addresses, etc tend to be what gets me in trouble. This was no different.

In a nutshell the default data rate on the hd presenter for streaming low is around 4mb/s. The venues I have been testing it in for various reasons, can not keep up with that rate resulting in the cache quickly filling and for the stream to fail.

So, I obtained an xml template, loaded it up in and xml editor and set the lowest youtube setting to be safely below what my internets max upload ability is and loaded the file into the web presenter hd. It is now working like a dream. I understand why bmd sets the settings where they do. They assume we all have great internet and they want the results to look good so they set them high.


Any chance you could share your XML file?
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fbg.live

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostSun Oct 31, 2021 12:41 pm

RobbieBott wrote:Would you by chance be using Ubiquiti network gear? My Web Presenter Streams just fine via my hotspot which has a way crappier service. 15x5 if I'm lucky with latency upwards of 60+.. however, once I connect it to my Unifi UDM Pro it streams for a bit then craps out...
Yes, Ubiquiti EdgeRouter X.
Are you thinking the problem could be related?
I'm having same experience as others. Starts out fine, fills up cache, CDNs never see data coming in.
I've been using the WebPresenter for a few months now. Just started happening two days ago.

I will say this, I had the same issue with our ATEM Mini which also worked flawlessly for a while. Finally gave up on it and bought Web Presenter, which is now having the same issue.
Thomas Beck wrote:So, I obtained an xml template, loaded it up in and xml editor and set the lowest youtube setting to be safely below what my internets max upload ability is and loaded the file into the web presenter hd. It is now working like a dream. I understand why bmd sets the settings where they do. They assume we all have great internet and they want the results to look good so they set them high.
I don't believe the issue has anything to do with internet bandwidth or streaming settings. Pretty sure something else is going on. Perhaps something along the lines of what Andy suggested:
Andy Coulthurst wrote:You may wish to check if your ISP is interfering with your DNS queries as this can sometimes have a detrimental effect.
However, I can say that I have now experienced this issue back-to-back days using different ISPs.
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Larry_KHCC

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostSun Oct 31, 2021 4:15 pm

Thomas Beck wrote:SOLVED

Many of my issues in regards to the video world and particularly streaming is when the video side of things crossed in to the world of the internet. Networking, data rates, ip addresses, etc tend to be what gets me in trouble. This was no different.

In a nutshell the default data rate on the hd presenter for streaming low is around 4mb/s. The venues I have been testing it in for various reasons, can not keep up with that rate resulting in the cache quickly filling and for the stream to fail.

So, I obtained an xml template, loaded it up in and xml editor and set the lowest youtube setting to be safely below what my internets max upload ability is and loaded the file into the web presenter hd. It is now working like a dream. I understand why bmd sets the settings where they do. They assume we all have great internet and they want the results to look good so they set them high.


Not sure this makes a 100% sense. I'm seeing the problem (right now actually) and our uplink speed is 10 mbps. It works without fail at 1080p 30fps with OBS. With-Out-Fail!

Is it time to return the WebPresenter to our integrator and cancel the order for the other 3 or is there a fix?

I second the request? Is there an xml file, perhaps provided by BMD support, that addresses this issue?
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Videobegin

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostWed Nov 03, 2021 12:52 pm

Don't know if it's a sign, but some sellers sell off the price under BMD prices. On second hands market, old model with smartpanel leave easily but not new one...

I hope BMD will correct DNS and others issues in next future.
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iherve

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostSat Nov 06, 2021 4:29 pm

We managed to get around the problem a bit:
Start with a low speed (e.g. 3Mb/s) then wait a bit and then increase a bit to 5Mbs then wait and increase a bit to 8Mbs, then it is stable all the time (3% cache)
5x ATEM M/E 2 Production 4K
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doubleacs

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostSat Nov 13, 2021 4:52 pm

We are unable to use our Web Presenter HD with AT&T wireless. I can use any other internet provider without issue. It doesn't matter if I teather or use an LTE Router with AT&T SIM. It just doesn't work. Connect with any other provider and I have no problems.
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Larry_KHCC

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostSun Nov 14, 2021 3:57 pm

Wow Herve! Thanks for the tip. I'll being this to our team and schedule a test. I assume you're using software to make the bit rate change (low, med, high) or maybe on the device itself?

LB
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iherve

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostSun Nov 14, 2021 4:02 pm

In the software of the device you can change the bitrate in the dropdown menu without stopping the stream
5x ATEM M/E 2 Production 4K
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Larry_KHCC

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostSun Nov 14, 2021 5:44 pm

Thanks Herve. That's the one. I'll do some testing this week and let you know if I can replicate your results.

LB
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Raphaël Jacquot

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostSun Nov 14, 2021 8:43 pm

Andy Coulthurst wrote:You may wish to check if your ISP is interfering with your DNS queries as this can sometimes have a detrimental effect.

https://www.dnsleaktest.com/what-is-transparent-dns-proxy.html

My ISP does this , and has a way to disable it.

The interception can be transparent , so even using 8.8.8.8 can be re-directed to their own DNS.


that's one of the problems, there's no way to change the device from using google's DNS when the ip settings are set to "static", this is ridiculous.
then the devices do seem to have some issues discovering the maximum MTU acceptable on the link. OBS on the exact same connection on mac or linux doesn't have the problem
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cmcfalls2

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostSun Jan 16, 2022 11:14 pm

Sorry to dig up a months' old thread, but I'm having this exact same issue lately. Our church service instantly alimbs to 100 cahce and starts buffering a skipping like crazy. Sometimes it will settle down to the 3% range but usually not.

Bandwidth is fine. We are using a Ubiquiti system for our network but the BWHD is hardwired to the main router. I've ready that Ubiquiti hardware can cause this issue, but we've been running it for many months and are just now having this latency issue.

Has there been any update to this? Even if we start the stream at the lowest quality it still does it.
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Marc Bartholomew

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostTue Jan 18, 2022 7:01 pm

Having the same problems here. 2 Atem Mimi Extremes. Trying to livestream to youtube. No problems whatsoever with OBS and Youtube. No problem using DHCP or static to get the ATEM on the network. ATEM and Youtube skips and stutters, Youtube Studio complains about not enough data in the stream. Doesn't matter what bitrate I use. We have symmetrical 1GBs fiber internet, I can speed test before after and get 800MBs upload speed all day.

We have a mix of HP and Unifi switches, and UDM Pro for the main gateway router to the internet. I've also played with the MTU (MSS Clamping) on the UDM Pro with no change.

My next step is to spin up an OpenSense or PFSense firewall just for testing and see if it's the UDM Pro that's causing the problem. I've looked into finding out if my ISP is capturing 8.8.8.8 traffic and potentially throwing off the ATEM mtu calculation, but I haven't reached out to my ISP yet.

So frustrating, any help would be appreciated!
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Marc Bartholomew

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostTue Jan 18, 2022 11:48 pm

Ok, added an old Netgear 7800 home router to my network and assigned it an external WAN IP from our ISP's pool they assigned us. That way I could just change the gateway IP on the ATEM to choose which router I wanted to go to the internet on. Low and behold, it streams to Youtube even at 20MBs with no errors or dropouts if I use the NetGear 7800 instead of the Unifi UDM Pro. I also have two other UDM Pros on my network and switching to them didn't fix it either (I have them on as backup gateway routers, and their settings are pretty much default, no IPS or other filtering going on compared to my main UDM Pro)

So, what is it? What about UDM's NAT or otherwise that is screwing with video streaming to YouTube? I tried adjusting the MTU (mss clamping), I tried with SmatQueues on and off, I tried with a different UDM altogether.
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Ben Doyle

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostThu Nov 24, 2022 1:55 pm

Any updates on this issue? We've just run into this Ubiquiti problem on a particular theater setup. We stream from many locations and have had no major issues in the past. But this place has a pair of Ubiquiti Unifi switches connected via fiber and they are simply not working with our web presenter HD despite having robust internet.
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Raphaël Jacquot

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostSun Nov 27, 2022 8:25 am

I don't know how similar the streaming engine on the Web Presenter HD to the one on the Atem Mini Pro, but I did notice this issue when the MTU of the link was lower than 1500.

This may be related to PMTUD which would need to be implemented in the BMD OS.

This issue doesn't appear with OBS on the mac, on the exact same link
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Ben Doyle

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Re: Web Presenter HD - Live Streaming Issues

PostSun Nov 27, 2022 3:09 pm

Thanks. So it's not something I can "fix" on the Ubiquiti side? I'm not a networking guru (although I probably should be).

My solution is going to be to move away from Blackmagic Web Presenter hardware and use a Teradek Vidiu Go.

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