Atem mini pro cache full

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altalake

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostTue Oct 18, 2022 7:41 pm

October 13th, 2022, we experienced the same <cache full>, dropped frames (about 1 frame every 15 seconds and audio dropouts as well) using an ATEM Mini Extreme [software (firmware) v8.6.1, build d2270bf3 with no prompt to update] in a venue with a screaming fast fibre connection where we have used an ATEM before without problems. We had to revert to OBS and had no issues at all.
October 14th, 2022, we were unable to use an ATEM Mini Pro [software v8.6.3 with no prompt to update] for direct streaming in a different venue - one where the same ATEM and network switch had been used the previous year.
They're good switchers and recording devices but we've had to abandon any thoughts of using them for streaming.
I maybe posted this too soon. Looks like the only contributor here who has found a fix was merlinbk who changed the YouTube setting to the insecure server (RTMP vs RTMPS). RTMP is what is the default in OBS. We should probably all give this a try again with the RTMPS setting in OBS and alter the ATEM's xml to mod or add the insecure path RTMP. This makes the stream vulnerable, of course, but better a vulnerable stream than no stream for our team's purposes. Possibly a better way is to change settings in YouTube studio, but I'm getting in over my head here.
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Corpus

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostThu Oct 20, 2022 2:18 am

Having a similar issue with YT streaming here.
Works just fine when running the ATEM Mini as a Webcam.
But streaming directly from the device no longer works.
Started after the most recent firmware update.
Was really hoping to find a solution...
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User2021

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostThu Oct 20, 2022 4:09 pm

User2021 wrote:Sadly I am now following this discussion. We have been running our ATEM Mini Pro ISO flawlessly for 16 months and only today started experiencing connection issues with YouTube during a stream and cache issues on the ATEM.
What changed is that I upgraded my software for the first time since installing the ATEM.

Can I easily go back to the old version of code in one step?

Peter

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


I want to report that the issue occurred a second time which basically eliminates a chance issue on the Internet (imho). I should mention that our Internet connection is fibre based and we subscribe to 300Mbps up AND down. The connection tested fine while the problem was occurring.

Today I downgraded the ATEM Mini Pro ISO from 8.6.3 to 8.6.0 and ran a test for more than one hour with complete success.

I am confident that it will be reliable and will report the issue to BMDesign.

Peter

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
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altalake

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostFri Oct 21, 2022 9:08 pm

Is everyone only experiencing this with Youtube like we were or with other streaming services as well?
If it's only Youtube, you really should try that xml file fix. Not hard to do and it just might work.
The issue seems to be that the Mini has the Youtube secure server as the default (and only) url address and yet Youtube's and the OBS default is the non-encrypted server.
John Barker describes how to find the xml and how to edit it. Just have to take the <s> out of <rmtp>
(not allowed to post link)
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PMS382

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostFri Oct 21, 2022 10:59 pm

altalake wrote:Is everyone only experiencing this with Youtube like we were or with other streaming services as well?
If it's only Youtube, you really should try that xml file fix. Not hard to do and it just might work.
The issue seems to be that the Mini has the Youtube secure server as the default (and only) url address and yet Youtube's and the OBS default is the non-encrypted server.
John Barker describes how to find the xml and how to edit it. Just have to take the <s> out of <rmtp>
(not allowed to post link)


I’m experiencing this with Vimeo as well. OBS to Vimeo is flawless.
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Raphaël Jacquot

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostSun Oct 23, 2022 7:58 pm

I have a similar problem with the following behavior:

  • on a network with MTU 1500, no issues
  • on a network with MTU < 1500, the atem mini pro caches, and nothing arrives on youtube's side.

hope that helps
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altalake

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostMon Oct 24, 2022 2:37 am

Ran several tests today comparing performance with OBS and ATEM Mini Pro.
OBS Wizard determined 3937Kbps stream speed. YouTube recommended 4,500Kbps. OBS set to 30fps, 1080p.
ATEM Mini Pro set to medium streaming quality which is 4,500Kbps
With OBS directed to YouTube's unencrypted RTMP address, no problems. With OBS directed to YouTube's encrypted RTMPS address, video stuttered, audio dropped out and lost stream completely after a couple of minutes.
With the ATEM Mini Pro directed to its default YouTube address, which is RTMPS, YouTube Studio initially showed <Excellent connection> but never showed video and went to Error after about 1 minute.
The ATEM Mini Pro does not display cache information, but it acted just like the ATEM Mini Extreme in that the stream crashed and, when trying to end the stream from the ATEM Mini Pro, it took several minutes for the ATEM to react and go to the <Off> position. I believe this indicates a full or nearly full cache that is flushing.
With the ATEM Mini Pro's xml file modified to select YouTube's unencrypted RTMP address, the stream ran flawlessly. After 28 minutes of streaming I was able to end the stream instantly by deploying the button on the ATEM Mini Pro.
One test is not enough to draw a definitive conclusion, but it sure looks like the problem is in trying to send the stream to YouTube's encrypted server.
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User2021

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostMon Oct 31, 2022 12:42 am

I reported the errors to BM and told them that a number of us downgraded and others edited their XML files. The tech responded saying, "If simply rolling back to a the previous or earlier version has now abated the issue that is great news!".
I basically replied to BM, saying not so fast buddy. It is not great news at all. I cannot stay on old code for long. With so many experiencing the same issue after a code upgrade, something has been broken and I expect the root problem to be found, patched, and new code released and I look forward to updates on the progress. Those of you who patched the XML have handed the solution to BM on a silver platter.

I think that the server setting should never have been hard coded by BM. It has to be a user changeable field so when YouTube changes something, users can reconfigure through the user interface (not hacking code).
I have heard nothing from BM since, but I'll post when I hear something.

Peter

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RhinoRhino

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostSun Nov 20, 2022 4:26 pm

What worked for us in our church setting was changing rtmps to rtmp in the streaming.xml file and chosing rtmp in the stream-URL in youtube. Leaving rtmps in the xml file and chosing rtmps in the stream-URL in youtube was not helpful.
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caseybea

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostFri Dec 02, 2022 10:40 pm

Oh my god, thank you all for this forum and the solutions. About a month ago, we got some new stuff, we're overhauling our sound booth. New audio not thee yet, but I did switch to some new computers, formerly old crappy laptops.

Anyway... ever since then, we have had issues. And for the life of me I couldn't figure out what was going on. Video stuttering-- dropped frames about once every 5 seconds. YouTube complaining in the stream status screen that there was not enough data to keep up a reliable stream. We used to be able to stream every Sunday using "Streaming High". Worked flawlessly.

After a time, I was able to get things MOSTLY working by unfortunately setting it to "Streaming Low". But only mostly.

I spent a lot more time chasing ghosts, nothing I did worked, and then I remembered... as part of the "sound booth refresh", I had updated the software and firmware for our ATEM MINI PRO. Further searches led me to this forum, and this thread.

As soon as I read the last several posts, I knew that was what hit us.

I had 2 choices: downgrade to 6.8.0 (6.8.1 is the version that broke the xml setting), OR, I could just edit the xml file. Not being a fan of going backwards, I decided to edit the xxml file.

So... I grabbed the Streaming.xml file, edited it, and copied the entire "YouTube" section to a new section labelled "YouTube RTMP". Within that new section, I changed the occurrances of "rtmps" to "rtmp". (I did not want to edit the "YouTube" section itself for fear that it gets overwritten with a future update).

And VOILA. Everything is working as it used to-- including being back to "Streaming High" as we once did before this update caused me an entire MONTH of frustration.

The only saving grace of this is that the RECORDING (to a usb stick) was still good. So every Sunday afternoon I replaced our crappy streamming video on YouTube with the recorded version. (If you haven't figured it out yet, we're a church...).

I am going to aattempt to log a support ticket with BlackMagic regarding this issue. FRUSTRATING.

Thank you ALL who posted the solution above. I owe soe of you guys a beer.
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swallow

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostSat Dec 03, 2022 12:01 am

I would like to add some counter intuitive solution that worked for my use.

I have always been streaming with "HyperDeck Low" which streams @12Mbps.
The average speed was around 11Mbps.

In one of the ATEM updates, BMD decided to raise upper limit and now the setting is set to 12Mbps to 20Mbps.
Now the stream speed averages to around 18Mbps.

Along with that issue, I was also using Companion to set streaming key for different worship services.
(I used macro to set it before Companion added that feature).
And I probably had rtmp rather than rtmps url as I probably copied it from YouTube website.

So I'm not sure which one started the issue first but we were having issues with stream left and right.
Mostly of streaming not start and somehow streaming speed setting got messed up and streaming in really low quality.

I've tried different combination of ways to set the streaming settings.
In the end, the only thing that made streaming stable was to use rtmps + "HyperDeck Low".

Although one thing I didn't try was to create a new service like what @caseybea did.
But I'm not sure if I want to risk having problems again. :P

We have FiOS 150Mbps internet at the location and I've had 3~4 buffering issues prior to when I started to having above issues.
I had ATEM Mini Pro as soon as it was available to buy.

One thing BMD made worse on ATEM Mini Pro was macro.
I can't seem to be able to modify macros created.
With ATEM TVS HD, I can create a macro and then I can modify or even add a new macro on xml file and update it.
But with ATEM Mini Pro, I was able to modify the ones I recorded but not add a new one.
But that was like early on.
Now, if I make any changes to it, update ATEM MP and then save xml again, either nothing was changed or it actually messed up the macro.
I can no longer make granular changes to macro anymore.
Ethan Doh
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Corpus

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostSat Dec 03, 2022 12:47 am

Hi All!
We recently amended the XML file as another user suggested and it has corrected the problem.
RTMP vs RTMS (as in the original XML file provided by BM.)
The input from other users about bitrate amendments is useful as well. We will give some of that a go as well.
BlackMagics approach to this issue has been pretty disappointing.
The local distributor has been flat out denying there is any issue.
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caseybea

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostMon Dec 05, 2022 5:46 pm

In one of the ATEM updates, BMD decided to raise upper limit and now the setting is set to 12Mbps to 20Mbps.
Now the stream speed averages to around 18Mbps.


Hmm,there could be 2 issues here. Can anyone else confirm if BMD "raised" the streaing rates in the various streaming options? (Streaming Low, Medium, High, etc..).

If the streamming rates did indeed get raised, that too would possibly cause similar issues I think.
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caseybea

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostMon Dec 05, 2022 5:51 pm

So here's my reply from BlackMagic. I am disappointed. I followed up by pointing them to this thread. I hope they take a look and review and see how many people have been impacted by this.

Kent,

Thank you for contacting Blackmagic Support. The latest version of software for the ATEM Mini Pro is version 8.6.3, I have tested this multiple times streaming to Youtube, with various settings and sources and have been unable to reproduce your reported issue, can you please try updating to the latest ATEM software v8.10 which will update your device to the last known version?

Hopefully this information has been helpful. If you have any further questions, please feel free to ask.



Thank you,

Manny Santoyo

Technical Support Representative

Blackmagic Design Inc.
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Christian Sass

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostWed Dec 07, 2022 9:24 am

https://www.linkedin.com/in/manuel-santoyo-b8a096191/


*shrug* "I have been unable to reproduce your reported issue" is unacceptable.
Just because you can't replicate the issue just proves the people in this forum are better at your job than you are... time for us to run this up the chain of command!

Who is Manny's manager? Is he reading this? I will post this on their linked in as well maybe start looking for other team members on linked in to alert them Imageto this issue...

*UPDATE*
just messaged both Albert Chu and Manuel Santoyo on LinkedIn. I expect to see them comment to all of us in this thread after reading through all 3 pages
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User2021

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostWed Dec 07, 2022 1:43 pm

As a follow up to my post of October 30, I did hear back from BMD tech support a couple of times in November 2022:

"We don't have direct contact with the product team or engineers. However, through other internal channel we checked to see there were any similar issues or reports. We don't show that is an issue that has come up on our radar.
That is not to say that it is not occurring.
We will perform a comparable stream test with an ATEM Mini Pro ISO 8.6.3 version, to see if we can replicate the issue.
Once tested we will follow up with you and our findings."

And then they wrote:

"We did use our lab's ATEM Mini Pro ISO for some testing.
* Flashed the firmware with the Atem 8.6.3 version
* Streamed to Youtube as an RTMP stream
* Tested for a couple of hours: 5-10 min intervals before stopping and starting the streams, as well as longer time period streams upto 45 min.
* No Cache full errors, we had Cache OK during testing.
* Monitoring of the Stream via Youtube: We always had the green Dot with Excellent connection so stream status was always good.
*We did use our lab's ATEM Mini Pro ISO for some testing.
* Flashed the firmware with the Atem 8.6.3 version
* Streamed to Youtube as an RTMP stream
* Tested for a couple of hours: 5-10 min intervals before stopping and starting the streams, as well as longer time period streams upto 45 min.
* No Cache full errors, we had Cache OK during testing.
* Monitoring of the Stream via Youtube: We always had the green Dot with Excellent connection so stream status was always good."


I am happy that they completed a test as promised.

What caught my eye was that tech support indicated "* Streamed to Youtube as an RTMP stream" in their test setup. I had been clear in my original trouble ticket that it works as long as I use RTMP either by downgrading code or editing the XML(as others have done), and I asked that they make the YouTube server a user changeable field in the ATEM Control interface. If YouTube was ever to change its server name, we'd be toast until BMD issued a code upgrade. I immediately wrote back and asked how they set the test to RTMP since I cant find it in the user settings. They backtracked and indicated it was a fresh install of 8.6.3.

I am back at 8.6.0 software and am not keen to risk creating problems with weekly livestreams. I could move back to current code and then edit the xml file, but others on my team would not be comfortable doing so and I think BMD has to fix it one way or another.
I will simply follow any progress that others make with BMD.
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caseybea

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostWed Dec 07, 2022 4:15 pm

I followed up back to the issue I submitted on this; I pressed that this is affecting many people (not just me), and sent a link to THIS thread here in the forum. Here is their reply. Looks rather hopeful.

ALSO--- can all you guys see my comment a few posts prior? Can anyone confirm BMD "raised" the streaming limits along the way?

Kent,

Sorry for the delayed response, I have submitted this information to our dev team along with the link to the forum post so they can see how many people are affected by this.

Unfortunately I do not have a specific ETA on when this will get fixed, but hopefully we will see some improvement within the next update.

Sorry for the inconvenience, at this time though it does appear either rolling back to version 8.6, or editing the XML file to remove the RTMPS and replace it with a simple RTMP are the only workarounds for those affected by it.

Hopefully this information has been helpful. If you have any further questions, please feel free to ask.
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Christian Sass

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostWed Dec 07, 2022 7:31 pm

"We did use our lab's ATEM Mini Pro ISO for some testing.
* Flashed the firmware with the Atem 8.6.3 version
* Streamed to Youtube as an RTMP stream
* Tested for a couple of hours: 5-10 min intervals before stopping and starting the streams, as well as longer time period streams upto 45 min.
* No Cache full errors, we had Cache OK during testing.
* Monitoring of the Stream via Youtube: We always had the green Dot with Excellent connection so stream status was always good.
*We did use our lab's ATEM Mini Pro ISO for some testing.
* Flashed the firmware with the Atem 8.6.3 version
* Streamed to Youtube as an RTMP stream
* Tested for a couple of hours: 5-10 min intervals before stopping and starting the streams, as well as longer time period streams upto 45 min.
* No Cache full errors, we had Cache OK during testing.
* Monitoring of the Stream via Youtube: We always had the green Dot with Excellent connection so stream status was always good."

MAIN ISSUE:

All tests were done on their immaculate corporate internet.
It's all we can do but assume that no variables in bandwidth are taken into account.

As I'm sure it works perfectly inside their bubble, they need to do what Ian Morrish did and run their "own RTMP server on Linux with trickle to simulate low bandwidth."
Guys, come on. shake the table at least.
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caseybea

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostThu Dec 08, 2022 3:44 am

MAIN ISSUE:

All tests were done on their immaculate corporate internet.
It's all we can do but assume that no variables in bandwidth are taken into account.

As I'm sure it works perfectly inside their bubble, they need to do what Ian Morrish did and run their "own RTMP server on Linux with trickle to simulate low bandwidth."
Guys, come on. shake the table at least.


Yeah my thoughts exactly. I bet a standard speedtest from ther lab is 20 times what our church has. The thing is, I *really* like their ATEM switcher. Just wish their customer support was a few notches higher to match their product.
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Gary Adams

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostTue Dec 13, 2022 12:46 am

Many users will want to use RTMPS due to the enhanced security provided. It is clear, however, that some users have difficulty with this. While this is being looked into, I am providing a YouTube XML which is identical to the RTMPS settings using RTMP. Simply unzip this xml and place it on your computer running the ATEM software. Use the "Stream -> Load Stream Settings" menu in the ATEM software to add this selection to your streaming menu. There is no need to modify the factory XML file to do this. The bit rates here are the same we have used in all XML files. You may edit these if you wish but note that the text editors natively provided with Windows and Mac may corrupt data and should not be used. Some Windows users like Notepad++ and some Mac users like BBEdit. These are both good text editors for XML. Notepad, Wordpad, and Textedit are not.

I have tested both RTMP and RTMPS on my home cable modem with upload speed of 15Mb without problems with either protocol. I hope this helps.

Regards, Gary
Attachments
YouTube RTMP.zip
(608 Bytes) Downloaded 48 times
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Blackmagic Design
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Keith55

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostTue Dec 13, 2022 5:27 am

Unfortunately I too have had to find this forum. Streaming a primary school graduation ceremony yesterday did NOT go well. Cache full, almost immediately. (And by the way I'm in Melbourne, Vic - Blackmagic's home town, so maybe a staff member's kids were affected :). I HATE having parents come up to me during the livestream telling me it's not working and the grand parents at home can't watch etc. It's embarrassing explaining to the school and wondering whether I can still send an invoice (they still did at least get the recording).

Anyway, because I can't seem to get through the education department's proxy servers to live stream, I use a 5g/4g Nokia modem with an Optus data sim card. I was getting upload speeds of 26mb/s and the Atem mini Pro was set to stream at a "Low" bit rate to Youtube and youtube was set to match (720p, 3mb/s) so no issues with bandwidth you'd have thought.

Today I read this forum and did some testing. When I used this 5g Nokia Modem, I get the cache full issue and the stream to youtube faulters badly every time. Youtube also gives a message there's not enough data as soon as I hit 'live'. It doesn't matter if the bit rate in the Atem is set to low, medium or high. I tried raising the Atem and putting a small fan to cool it. I tried changing the xml file to RTMP (deleting the S) In all cases, same issue. It seemed like the Atem can't do the processing. However:

WHAT DID FIX IT, was when I swapped back to my home NBN modem (which by the way is a bit slower than the 5g Nokia modem, but still plenty). Suddently it was fine. 'Cache OK'.

So there was something about the quality of the 5g modem ethernet connection that the ATEM didn't like. In the test when the cache hit full I did hit STOP streaming and after a (long) while it did actually stop (Red light to white). At that point I connected a USBC between my laptop and the ATEM, and was able to pick up the live stream again using OBS using the same 5g Nokia modem. Go figure!

Lesson for me? Just because the speedtest says the internet connection is fast and quick ping, doesn't mean it's good. The Atem mini Pro works better as a webcam input via USBC to a good laptop (with a graphics card to process the video), than streaming direct via ethernet. It just can't be trusted.

Comments / thoughts/ others experience?
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Christian Sass

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostTue Dec 13, 2022 3:37 pm

Thanks Gary

although the cache full issue I was experiencing last week was with Vimeo. can we get a Default XML that has all destinations in it?
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jbwjr22

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostMon Dec 19, 2022 4:28 pm

Gary, my church uses Restream with our ATEM Mini Pro and we've recently had lots of "cache full" instances and terrible livestream issues going to YouTube and Facebook after a year of problem-free streaming. We updated software to v8.10 recently. Can you please send an updated XML file like the one you recently created for YouTube that also includes Restream? It would be wonderful if you could provide this before our two Christmas Eve services! Thank you.
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AdmiralTriggerHappy

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostFri Dec 23, 2022 4:25 am

I would love to know what MTU they tested with also because I'm stuck on a PPPoE connection which means my MTU will be 1492 instead of the usual 1500.

So for me not even switching to RTMP works
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Gary Adams

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostFri Dec 23, 2022 5:38 pm

There were three services in the factory xml file that utilized rtmps. I have attached an xml with those three services set to rtmp for anyone that could utilize that protocol. They have "RTMP" added to their name for easy identification. I have not tested that these connect so please test and verify they are suitable. Loading this file will not overwrite any existing service so the originals remain available. I hope this helps some users.

Gary
Attachments
Streaming RTMP.zip
RTMPS services changed to RTMP.
(883 Bytes) Downloaded 49 times
Gary Adams
Blackmagic Design
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Christian Sass

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostSun Jan 08, 2023 9:25 pm

Thank you Gary for staying on top of this... I and all ATEM users want to be able to trust our ATEM's hardware encoder to stream at least as well as OBS does. until it does we will continue to monitor this situation. I myself am still trying to fix relationships that this issue has harmed.
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User2021

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostMon Jan 09, 2023 2:06 pm

Yes, thank you for the patch. I am in no hurry to try to upgrade again since the newer version does not add functionality (at least none that I need).
It would be better to switch the YouTube side to rtmps rather than dumb down the ATEM to rtmp. My YouTube setup screen does not seem to offer an rtmps option. How might I set this up?

Edit: how embarrassing. There is a padlock symbol next to the url in the live stream setup window. One click and it changes to rtmps. Is it safe to assume that this will make my caching issue go away???

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
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swallow

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Re: Atem mini pro cache full

PostMon Jan 09, 2023 3:57 pm

User2021 wrote:Yes, thank you for the patch. I am in no hurry to try to upgrade again since the newer version does not add functionality (at least none that I need).
It would be better to switch the YouTube side to rtmps rather than dumb down the ATEM to rtmp. My YouTube setup screen does not seem to offer an rtmps option. How might I set this up?

Edit: how embarrassing. There is a padlock symbol next to the url in the live stream setup window. One click and it changes to rtmps. Is it safe to assume that this will make my caching issue go away???

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

https://support.google.com/youtube/answ ... tream&rd=1
TLDR, clicking on padlock icon in front of the url should change the url to rtmps version.
And clicking on empty area where padlock icon was also should give you back rtmp version.
Ethan Doh
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