Zoom Demand too fast

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jpboyd58

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Zoom Demand too fast

PostSun Jan 30, 2022 3:51 pm

We just started using the BM Studio 4k cams and the focus and zoom controls during our church services. Even with the zoom speed dial all the way down, it feels like the zoom is way too fast. There's no way to have a nice slow push in or pull out. Is this something that can be addressed in a firmware update?
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Tim Schumann

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Re: Zoom Demand too fast

PostTue Feb 01, 2022 12:47 am

Which MFT lens are you using and seeing this behaviour?

This may sound like an odd question but just to be sure... have you adjusted the zoom speed dial on the zoom demand down to minimum?
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jpboyd58

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Re: Zoom Demand too fast

PostTue Feb 01, 2022 12:56 am

Yes the speed dial is all the way down.

The lenses we are using is the Panasonic Lumix G X Vario PZ 45-175mm.
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LouisBacker

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Re: Zoom Demand too fast

PostWed Feb 02, 2022 10:16 am

We have the same zoom speed issue when using LANC zoom/focus controllers on our Ursa Broadcasts. We've tried Libec and Manfrotto, both variable and speed control set to minimum. Lenses used are the Fujinon LA16 4K and 20x Canon HD. The zoom speed issue is the same with both lenses.

When we use these same LANC controllers with the Sony FX6, we get a smooth very slow zoom.

It would be good to have a zoom speed adjustment in the menu to account for different lens speed characteristics.
2 x Sony FX9, 2 x Sony FX6, 6 x Ursa Broadcasts, 2 x Canon CR-N500 PTZeds with MRMC auto-tracking, ATEM CCU, ATEM TV Studio 4K. NewTek Tricaster TC1 and 460. Reckeen 3D Studio. vMix 4K
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jpboyd58

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Re: Zoom Demand too fast

PostThu Feb 03, 2022 4:41 pm

Tim Schumann wrote:Which MFT lens are you using and seeing this behaviour?

This may sound like an odd question but just to be sure... have you adjusted the zoom speed dial on the zoom demand down to minimum?


Is this something that can be fixed with firmware update to the camera?
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Tim Schumann

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Re: Zoom Demand too fast

PostMon Feb 07, 2022 5:23 am

We'll try and recreate it here...

In your Menu setup button mapping page for the Studio Camera can you check that you haven't set your zoom 'Speed' dial to another parameter? If you had set it to maximum and then mapped it to something else this could explain why the speed is staying high.

The issue LouisBacker is reporting sounds very different as that is via LANC on very different lenses and a totally different camera so is likely to be unrelated.
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jpboyd58

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Re: Zoom Demand too fast

PostMon Feb 07, 2022 1:13 pm

Tim Schumann wrote:We'll try and recreate it here...

In your Menu setup button mapping page for the Studio Camera can you check that you haven't set your zoom 'Speed' dial to another parameter? If you had set it to maximum and then mapped it to something else this could explain why the speed is staying high.

The issue LouisBacker is reporting sounds very different as that is via LANC on very different lenses and a totally different camera so is likely to be unrelated.


Everything is set correctly. I’ve checked many times. The speed dial DOES affect the speed when used. So I know it’s ser correctly. When we turn the dial up it goes faster. All I am saying is that, on the slowest setting, it’s still faster than I feel like it should be. The lowest setting should be a crawl. However it’s still much too quick for the lowest setting.
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LouisBacker

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Re: Zoom Demand too fast

PostMon Feb 07, 2022 2:18 pm

jpboyd58 wrote:
Tim Schumann wrote:We'll try and recreate it here...

In your Menu setup button mapping page for the Studio Camera can you check that you haven't set your zoom 'Speed' dial to another parameter? If you had set it to maximum and then mapped it to something else this could explain why the speed is staying high.

The issue LouisBacker is reporting sounds very different as that is via LANC on very different lenses and a totally different camera so is likely to be unrelated.


Everything is set correctly. I’ve checked many times. The speed dial DOES affect the speed when used. So I know it’s ser correctly. When we turn the dial up it goes faster. All I am saying is that, on the slowest setting, it’s still faster than I feel like it should be. The lowest setting should be a crawl. However it’s still much too quick for the lowest setting.


Ditto here. We can only vary the zoom speed from moderate to fast. Although as Tim points out, we're on Ursa Broadcast G1/Fujinon LA16 with LANC control, not your same set-up. The Ursa Broadcast similarly does not zoom at "crawl" speed, even though they zoom very slowly with our Sony FX's, so it must be down to how the Ursa Broadcast is interpreting the LANC signal.

So yes, if there was a menu parameter to reduce speed further, we'd have better use of this camera, i.e. for interviews and static presenters. After all, what's the benefit of the camera having LANC control jacks, if it's implementation is limited?
2 x Sony FX9, 2 x Sony FX6, 6 x Ursa Broadcasts, 2 x Canon CR-N500 PTZeds with MRMC auto-tracking, ATEM CCU, ATEM TV Studio 4K. NewTek Tricaster TC1 and 460. Reckeen 3D Studio. vMix 4K
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Tim Schumann

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Re: Zoom Demand too fast

PostMon Feb 07, 2022 11:05 pm

jpboyd58 wrote:
Tim Schumann wrote:We'll try and recreate it here...


Everything is set correctly. I’ve checked many times. The speed dial DOES affect the speed when used. So I know it’s ser correctly. When we turn the dial up it goes faster. All I am saying is that, on the slowest setting, it’s still faster than I feel like it should be. The lowest setting should be a crawl. However it’s still much too quick for the lowest setting.

Okay will check it out.
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LouisBacker

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Re: Zoom Demand too fast

PostTue Feb 08, 2022 9:04 am

Tim Schumann wrote:
jpboyd58 wrote:
Tim Schumann wrote:We'll try and recreate it here...


Everything is set correctly. I’ve checked many times. The speed dial DOES affect the speed when used. So I know it’s ser correctly. When we turn the dial up it goes faster. All I am saying is that, on the slowest setting, it’s still faster than I feel like it should be. The lowest setting should be a crawl. However it’s still much too quick for the lowest setting.

Okay will check it out.


Great too if the Ursa Broadcast (Gen 1) LANC speed could be looked into at the same time. Thank you.
2 x Sony FX9, 2 x Sony FX6, 6 x Ursa Broadcasts, 2 x Canon CR-N500 PTZeds with MRMC auto-tracking, ATEM CCU, ATEM TV Studio 4K. NewTek Tricaster TC1 and 460. Reckeen 3D Studio. vMix 4K
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Keppler29

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Re: Zoom Demand too fast

PostWed Feb 09, 2022 3:48 pm

I second this. The zoom speed when dialed all the way down is still too fast.
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Tim Schumann

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Re: Zoom Demand too fast

PostThu Feb 10, 2022 12:13 am

We are looking into this.

That said... have you ever seen zoom speed move slower on this Micro 4/3 45-175mm power zoom lens on another camera? We can only go as fast, or slow as the lens servo will allow.
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LouisBacker

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Re: Zoom Demand too fast

PostThu Feb 10, 2022 10:21 pm

Tim Schumann wrote:We are looking into this.

That said... have you ever seen zoom speed move slower on this Micro 4/3 45-175mm power zoom lens on another camera? We can only go as fast, or slow as the lens servo will allow.


Ursa Broadcast Gen1. Using the on-lens zoom controls on our Fujinon LA16 4K and Canon KJ20x8.2B IRSD B4 lenses, I can confirm that their servos operate down to a "crawl" speed. When using the Manfrotto or Libec Lanc controllers, the minimum zoom speed I'd say is approx 20% faster than that achieved with the on-lens rocker control, as if the camera's Lanc range is running 20-100%, instead of 1-100%.
2 x Sony FX9, 2 x Sony FX6, 6 x Ursa Broadcasts, 2 x Canon CR-N500 PTZeds with MRMC auto-tracking, ATEM CCU, ATEM TV Studio 4K. NewTek Tricaster TC1 and 460. Reckeen 3D Studio. vMix 4K
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openlog

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Re: Zoom Demand too fast

PostFri Feb 11, 2022 9:57 pm

Tim,

We have the same 45-175mm lens referenced. We have a few non-BlackMagic cameras in addition to our Studio 4K Pro cameras, so we’ll give those a shot and see if zoom is any slower on this and report back.
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jpboyd58

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Re: Zoom Demand too fast

PostMon Feb 14, 2022 9:02 pm

openlog wrote:Tim,

We have the same 45-175mm lens referenced. We have a few non-BlackMagic cameras in addition to our Studio 4K Pro cameras, so we’ll give those a shot and see if zoom is any slower on this and report back.


What LANC controls are you testing with the Panasonic lenses?
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hcmobilemedia

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Re: Zoom Demand too fast

PostTue Feb 15, 2022 9:31 pm

We tried those Panasonic 45-175mm lenses as well. I don't believe they're physically capable of zooming any slower. If you unplug the Zoom Demand for a moment and try slow zooming with the manual zoom ring, you will find it stutters if you go too slow. In my research I have not been able to find an MFT lens that can do a slow servo zoom. There is a Canon EF lens with a better built-in servo that can be adapted to the Studio 4k MFT mount, but that would set you back about $5k.

In my opinion, until there is an MFT lens with a slower, smoother servo, the Zoom Demand is useless for slow zooms. This is part of the reason we decided to purchase the Panasonic Leica 50-200mm instead. Figured we might as well get the higher quality lens if we're not going to be able to slow zoom either way, and we really don't do a lot of zooming anyway.

Zoom is manual on the 50-200mm lens, but it still works with the Focus Demand. Image is nice and sharp, even zoomed all the way in.
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LouisBacker

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Re: Zoom Demand too fast - solved?

PostSun Apr 10, 2022 3:22 pm

I don't know of this "too fast" zoom issue has been addressed yet for the Ursa G2, as I only have G1s?

LANC contol on the Ursa G1 exhibits similar problems, with the lowest zoom speed setting being too fast for practical use (both Libec & Manfrotto lanc controls). Yet, when I plug the same controllers into a Sony FX6, bingo, you can zoom at a slow crawl. Clearly, Blackmagic's processing of the LANC zoom speed is so that it's not useable. And to boot, you get two Lanc ports; neither zoom-friendly.

To overcome this slow zoom speed issue on the Ursa G1, I use a Libec ZC-9Pro (£111 off Amazon) straight into the lens's 8-pin connector. Now I can zoom from very fast to smooth slow crawl. Problem solved. There is a switch to select Canon or Fujinon. Lenses tested; Fujinon LA16 8BRM (the 4K bundle lens) and Canon KJ20x8.2B KRSD (nice 20x zoom HD lens). The Fujinon is a tad smoother when slow-starting the zoom.
2 x Sony FX9, 2 x Sony FX6, 6 x Ursa Broadcasts, 2 x Canon CR-N500 PTZeds with MRMC auto-tracking, ATEM CCU, ATEM TV Studio 4K. NewTek Tricaster TC1 and 460. Reckeen 3D Studio. vMix 4K
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Re: Zoom Demand too fast - status

PostThu Oct 20, 2022 9:48 pm

Dear Blackmagic Team. My first post, and I just got my first BM products, the URSA Broadcast G2 among them. I use a Canon KJ17ex7.7B IASE II S. This lens is capable of a very slow crawl zoom speed, which is more or less the only speed I use when filming music, like classical orchestra, except when adjusting framing. The in point for the BM zoom demand is way too fast, almost like a shock zoom compared to the desired crawl speed the lens in itself can do. In fact, the BM zoom demand overrides any speed adjustment made in the lens internally. I can understand the override, but I am sure it is only a matter of firmware adjustment to change the starting speed and a finer resolution of the BM zoom demand.

Is this being looked into? Otherwise, I have bought a zoom demand totally useless to my use.

Jens Daniel Sagen Johannesen
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Julien Cadilhac

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Re: Zoom Demand too fast

PostTue Oct 25, 2022 8:18 am

+1
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LouisBacker

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Re: Zoom Demand too fast - status

PostTue Oct 25, 2022 8:45 am

jensda wrote:
Is this being looked into? Otherwise, I have bought a zoom demand totally useless to my use.

Jens Daniel Sagen Johannesen


Ditto +1. I purchased 2 x Blackmagic Zoom demands this summer, primarily to use the Zoom Speed dial re-mapped to Iris Control. The zoom element remains unusable speed-wise for corporate presentations/interviews (yet as I've mentioned previously, the much cheaper Libec zoom demand works superbly). Our camera combo is UB G2 with the bundled Fujinon LA16 4K lens.
2 x Sony FX9, 2 x Sony FX6, 6 x Ursa Broadcasts, 2 x Canon CR-N500 PTZeds with MRMC auto-tracking, ATEM CCU, ATEM TV Studio 4K. NewTek Tricaster TC1 and 460. Reckeen 3D Studio. vMix 4K
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Thibaud

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Re: Zoom Demand too fast

PostSat Jan 28, 2023 9:36 pm

+1 on Canon CN-E 18-80 + Ursa Broadcast G2
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Kim Janson

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Re: Zoom Demand too fast

PostSun Jan 29, 2023 9:41 am

Did you put the zoom speed range to the potentiometer?

I was testing the Zoom demand during last summer, and as remeber the solution was to set it to the potentiometer, adjust it to suitable, and after the potentiometer can be used for someting else. It remebers the last setting.

Did not like this functionality, also the dead-band of the zoom demand is big and can not be adjusted, And it really should have adjustable curve (to have detailed control at centre and exponentially faster when deviated lot). As it was, it is mechanically prety good implementation, I think it is accurate enough electrically, but SW is just lacking, and totally limiting its potential. This includes also that the protocol is not available, so it can be used only with BMD cameras, and not even with them if the camera has only one USB port and that is needed for something else.
LeViteZer Smooths the movement, www.levitezer.com
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Kim Janson

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Re: Zoom Demand too fast

PostWed Feb 01, 2023 12:40 pm

Found this video from last summer, testing the dead-band



First happens nothing and then all the sudden the data starts changing fast (linear)

Unfortunately we can not do this directly with the Zoom Demand interface. this is the Zoom Demand connected to URSA Broadcast G2 and monitoring the data from the B4 lens interface, it was related to this.

LeViteZer Smooths the movement, www.levitezer.com

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