Page 1 of 1

the HDMI->SDI converter thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:20 pm
by Raphaël Jacquot
so. HDMI to SDI converters are very useful... there are plenty of those, some work, some don't.
I decided to create a thread to list them, so that beginners don't buy those that won't work for their use.
This thread will be updated as I test devices.
If you test other devices, reply to the thread and send me a DM, and I'll update the top post

Those that work (with the HDCP caveat)

Obviously, the BlackmagicDesign converters work perfectly, except when your sources enforce HDCP.

Those that work (that fix HDCP issues)

I don't have any in this category (yet)

Those that will work in a limited fashion (and fix HDCP issues)

A lot of chinese devices use a new type of "SDI" drivers that are incompatible with some SMPTE modes, but work with others
Modes that work: 1080p25, 1080p30, 1080i50, 1080i59.94
Modes that don't work: 1080p50, 1080p59.94

Chipset: GV6700:
Device 01

Chipset: GV7700:
Device 02

Re: the HDMI->SDI converter thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:22 pm
by Raphaël Jacquot
Device 01:
Chipset GV6700
IMG_8613.jpg
IMG_8613.jpg (745.08 KiB) Viewed 452 times

IMG_8614.jpg
IMG_8614.jpg (966.71 KiB) Viewed 452 times

Re: the HDMI->SDI converter thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:24 pm
by Raphaël Jacquot
Device 02:
Chipset: GV7700
IMG_8635.jpg
IMG_8635.jpg (1014.84 KiB) Viewed 451 times

IMG_8633.jpg
IMG_8633.jpg (887.11 KiB) Viewed 451 times

Re: the HDMI->SDI converter thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:33 pm
by Xtreemtec
The GV serie chipset is the problem child. These come from the Security side of Semtech. And are NOT SMPTE compatible and a LOT cheaper then there SMPTE counterparts!! They are not able to send out the correct Payload ID's which will cause problems with 1080P50/59.94 on the Atems and other hardware.

The Chipset you want to have is the much more expensive chip that IS SMPTE complaint.
Semtech GS series. GS2978 2988 GS35 series. etc. The BMD Micro converter uses the GS2971 chipset.

Re: the HDMI->SDI converter thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:35 pm
by Raphaël Jacquot
Xtreemtec wrote:The GV serie chipset is the problem child. These come from the Security side of Semtech. And are NOT SMPTE compatible and a LOT cheaper then there SMPTE counterparts!! They are not able to send out the correct Payload ID's which will cause problems with 1080P50/59.94 on the Atems and other hardware.

The Chipset you want to have is the much more expensive chip that IS SMPTE complaint.
Semtech GS series. GS2978 2988 GS35 series. etc. The BMD Micro converter uses the GS2971 chipset.

I still wonder where the price difference comes from, those two series are internally exactly the same chips!

Re: the HDMI->SDI converter thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:42 pm
by Xtreemtec
SMPTE License ;) The Chips are pin(ball) compatible. But the GV series do not allow you to insert SMPTE payload ID's.

We developed a lot with those chipsets so that is why i know a lot about those chipsets and there internals.. ;)

A lot of chinese camera manufacturers also use the GV chipsets because they are much cheaper. 50% of 40 dollar is a lot. :P
That i why brands like PTZ Optics have so much problems with 3G-SDI to get it to work with the BMD Atems. And you need to put a Decimator in between to get it to work. Only because the Decimator doesn't care about the payload

Re: the HDMI->SDI converter thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:44 pm
by Raphaël Jacquot
Xtreemtec wrote:SMPTE License ;) The Chips are pin(ball) compatible. But the GV series do not allow you to insert SMPTE payload ID's.

We developed a lot with those chipsets so that is why i know a lot about those chipsets and there internals.. ;)

so, one could get a cheap device from china, get the right GS chip from Mouser, and hot-air replace the thing?

Re: the HDMI->SDI converter thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:48 pm
by Xtreemtec
Raphaël Jacquot wrote:
Xtreemtec wrote:SMPTE License ;) The Chips are pin(ball) compatible. But the GV series do not allow you to insert SMPTE payload ID's.

We developed a lot with those chipsets so that is why i know a lot about those chipsets and there internals.. ;)

so, one could get a cheap device from china, get the right GS chip from Mouser, and hot-air replace the thing?

And firmware to set up the correct information in the registers to send out the correct id's.. So no unfortunately not.

And with around $60 a chip it's not even worth it. As most of those chinese converters cost a lot less.. :lol:
https://octopart.com/search?q=GS2971&specs=0

Re: the HDMI->SDI converter thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:52 pm
by Raphaël Jacquot
Xtreemtec wrote:And firmware to set up the correct information in the registers to send out the correct id's.. So no unfortunately not.

that's more of a problem
And with around $60 a chip it's not even worth it. As most of those chinese converters cost a lot less.. :lol:
https://octopart.com/search?q=GS2971&specs=0

not a real problem, the goal being that the device would fix hdcp issues, which is legal for instance in the EU, when the compatibility exception is raised.

Re: the HDMI->SDI converter thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:59 pm
by Xtreemtec
Raphaël Jacquot wrote:not a real problem, the goal being that the device would fix hdcp issues, which is legal for instance in the EU, when the compatibility exception is raised.


Well then we can close down this tread immediately. Because by law HDCP sources must always retain there HDCP status in any way of signal distribution.
And because SDI has no way of a 2 way Key exchange. HDCP security can not be retained and so ALL HDMI > SDI devices that work with HDCP devices and still give an image are highly illegal and you can be sued if you use such a setup. ;)

So no you wont be able to make a solution that is legal. ;)

I know of an Apantec converter that also does proper 3G-SDI that has a non labeled jumper inside that will put it a HDCP friendly mode. Which is highly illegal again. :lol:

Re: the HDMI->SDI converter thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:00 pm
by Raphaël Jacquot
Xtreemtec wrote:And you need to put a Decimator in between to get it to work. Only because the Decimator doesn't care about the payload

maybe BMD should follow that route, accept the video whatever the payload bits say...

Re: the HDMI->SDI converter thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:04 pm
by Raphaël Jacquot
Xtreemtec wrote:Well then we can close down this tread immediately.

this would be censorship
Because by law HDCP sources must always retain there HDCP status in any way of signal distribution.

only where such law exists that forbids a sane use of technology
And because SDI has no way of a 2 way Key exchange. HDCP security can not be retained and so ALL HDMI > SDI devices that work with HDCP devices and still give an image are highly illegal and you can be sued if you use such a setup. ;)

HDCP is provably unsecure. there's no reason to bother people with this broken thing
So no you wont be able to make a solution that is legal. ;)
I know of an Apantec converter that also does proper 3G-SDI that has a non labeled jumper inside that will put it a HDCP friendly mode. Which is highly illegal again. :lol:

show me where there is a law that says it is illegal in the EU. There is no DMCA around here.

Re: the HDMI->SDI converter thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:08 pm
by Xtreemtec
BMD follows the SMPTE rules. Otherwise you are not officially SMPTE complaint. ;)

Just stop and realize that some things are just not meant to be. :?

If i remember correct this is the box that will do..
Image



Also i did have some success in the past with these but there build quality is really CRAP and they die for no reason.. Also it did work sometimes.. But not always on all devices..
Image

Re: the HDMI->SDI converter thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:14 pm
by Xtreemtec

Intellectual property is protected by WIPO (World Intellectual Property Organization).
WIPO treaties protect copyrighted material in nearly 200 countries.

As such, when you send a DMCA Infringement Notice to a hosting provider, even if the site isn't hosted in the US, it may still comply with your formal request to take down the material.

The WIPO Copyright Treaty of December 20,1996 provided the basis for the US DMCA Act in 1998 and its European equivalent the EUCD ( European Union copyright directive) in 2001.

191 countries are members of WIPO (World Intellectual Property Organization). http://www.wipo.int/members/fr/.

Only 7 UN member countries have not signed the convention: East Timor, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, Solomon Islands, South Sudan.


So unless you are not living in 1 of those 200 countrys. You still can be sued ;) :mrgreen:

Re: the HDMI->SDI converter thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:21 pm
by Raphaël Jacquot
Xtreemtec wrote:So unless you are not living in 1 of those 200 countrys. You still can be sued ;) :mrgreen:

unlike in the US, the EU directive has carve-outs for legitimate use of the broken pseudo-protection removing devices.
like Apple said in one of their system sounds... Sosumi.aiff :mrgreen:

Re: the HDMI->SDI converter thread

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:21 pm
by scotmacman
Just a small shout-out to the BlackMagic Design Mini Converters. Often overshadowed by their matchbox counterparts: the micro converters. The HDMI—>SDI and SDI—>HDMI mini converters additionally offer analogue (or AES) audio embedding and de-embedding respectively.
The SDI—>HDMI mini converter is a less expensive SDI—>Audio converter if you only need two channels. You can ignore the HDMI output and just take the audio output. Also the SDI—>HDMI mini converter will convert what might have been analogue input to your switcher and give you AES out, if you happen to need that for any reason. Again, just ignore the HDMI input.
Lastly, if you're looking to only embed audio using the HDMI—>SDI mini converter you do have to supply an SDI video signal over which the audio will be embedded, even if it's just a test card.

Re: the HDMI->SDI converter thread

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:46 pm
by Raphaël Jacquot
scotmacman wrote:Lastly, if you're looking to only embed audio using the HDMI—>SDI mini converter you do have to supply an SDI video signal over which the audio will be embedded, even if it's just a test card.

too bad, there are plenty of available switches they could use to enable an internal test card generator... with the external audio embedded