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ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:29 pm
by PhotoJoseph
Is anyone using an ATEM Mini with GoToWebinar or GoToMeeting? I've just tried this and am getting a cropped image from the Mini as a "webcam".

Here's what I mean. This is Skype, looking at the ATEM Mini. You are seeing the full width of the feed from the ATEM:

Screen Shot 2020-02-14 at 15.15.17.png
ATEM Mini in Skype
Screen Shot 2020-02-14 at 15.15.17.png (663.19 KiB) Viewed 4908 times


And here's what you see in GoToWebinar or GoToMeeting… first, in 16:9 mode:

Screen Shot 2020-02-14 at 15.25.34.png
ATEM Mini in GoToMeeting 16:9
Screen Shot 2020-02-14 at 15.25.34.png (411.59 KiB) Viewed 4908 times


And here it is in 4:3 mode:

Screen Shot 2020-02-14 at 15.25.39.png
ATEM Mini in GoToMeeting 4:3
Screen Shot 2020-02-14 at 15.25.39.png (511.07 KiB) Viewed 4908 times


You can see how much it's cropped. If you compare a regular webcam (i.e. a Logitech C920), the image in Skype and GTW are identical.

Any ideas on why this would happen and how to solve it?
-Joseph

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:35 am
by PhotoJoseph
Logically, I tried taking the HDMI out of the ATEM Mini and converting that to USB using an epiphan av.io and GoToWebinar sees the full signal that way, just as it does with a cheap webcam. So it seems like there's some miscommunication between GTW and the ATEM, which I'm guessing is GTW's problem since their software is the only one I've seen with this issue. I've already had a conversation with them and they are at a loss… very curious to see if anyone here knows more!

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:24 am
by nickwalkr
I am experiencing the same issue with Zoom.us. Haven’t tried the HDMI out from the ATEM mini but will give that a shot on Monday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:40 pm
by PhotoJoseph
nickwalkr wrote:I am experiencing the same issue with Zoom.us. Haven’t tried the HDMI out from the ATEM mini but will give that a shot on Monday.


Really! that's interesting… I had tested before, and just did again, and Zoom.us is fine. I'm seeing the full image. I'm on macOS Catalina 10.15.3 and Zoom version 4.5.9. You?

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:50 pm
by rogersuski
I love how UVC was supposed the be the savior. :lol:

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:38 pm
by Gary Adams
Just to let everyone know the ATEM Mini does not crop or flip the image. This is done by the streaming software that has control. There are softwares that do not do this with the Mini.

Regards. Gary

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:23 pm
by mikeright
Joseph Linaschke wrote:
nickwalkr wrote:I am experiencing the same issue with Zoom.us. Haven’t tried the HDMI out from the ATEM mini but will give that a shot on Monday.


Really! that's interesting… I had tested before, and just did again, and Zoom.us is fine. I'm seeing the full image. I'm on macOS Catalina 10.15.3 and Zoom version 4.5.9. You?


Here no problems at all with Zoom.us.
Just some times depending on your zoom.us video screen aspect ratio you will see some parts of the image cropped.

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:29 pm
by PhotoJoseph
rogersuski wrote:I love how UVC was supposed the be the savior. :lol:


UVC?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:32 pm
by PhotoJoseph
Gary Adams wrote:Just to let everyone know the ATEM Mini does not crop or flip the image. This is done by the streaming software that has control. There are softwares that do not do this with the Mini.


Thanks Gary. No doubt in my mind this is a GoToWebinar issue and not a BMD issue, but still trying to resolve it. Do you have any idea why this would happen? Is there any reason you can think of ghat GTW would be cropping the ATEM’s image?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:38 am
by RichardJolly
We regularly see the same issue with a BMD UltraStudio USB3 or Mini Recorder on first opening Wirecast. The solution has always been to click on "Scale to Fit", even when the input and Canvas (i.e. preview and programme monitoring) resolutions are the same. Same thing sometimes happens with a black input - switching the Monitoring button off and on cures it. In a word, find a way to "give it a kick".

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:20 pm
by PhotoJoseph
RichardJolly wrote:We regularly see the same issue with a BMD UltraStudio USB3 or Mini Recorder on first opening Wirecast. The solution has always been to click on "Scale to Fit", even when the input and Canvas (i.e. preview and programme monitoring) resolutions are the same. Same thing sometimes happens with a black input - switching the Monitoring button off and on cures it. In a word, find a way to "give it a kick".


Unfortunately the GTW interface doesn’t have a kick button… or scale to fit for that matter. The only choice is to switch between 16:9 and 4:3. Using the ATEM, as you can see from the screenshots above, 4:3 is already cropped on the sides, and 16:9 additionally crops the top and bottom. With a regular webcam, 16:9 is the full image and 4:3 is cropped on the sides.

I’ve tried reconnecting the hardware and relaunching software and toggling between cameras. No love.

-Joseph

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:48 am
by thiago_afc
I am getting the same issue here in GTW! I used Cam Twist to try to solve this, but the video quality was poor. My idea is creat about 15 DIY kits for VC's rooms with two Black Magic Micro cameras and a Laptop with ppt with GTW. So, at the moment I am in the point zero again! I have been contact GTW and nothing until the momente.

Someone had some news about this issue?

FIY

Cam Twist worked with no crop when I set up the output for 720p!

The Atem Mini output is only 1080!

Can be some problems with resolution incompatibility?

-Thiago Carvalho

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:41 pm
by PhotoJoseph
thiago_afc wrote:Cam Twist worked with no crop when I set up the output for 720p!


Yeah, that could well be. I think that GTW’s claim of “HD” is BS. Here’s what Support shared with me yesterday:

Anyone with an Internet connection and a webcam can use HDFaces in GoToMeeting sessions. You can start sharing video with a single click; our Multistream HD technology provides up to 6 video streams at a resolution of 640p x 480p each, for a total maximum resolution of 1920p x 960p.

Here’s what I replied:

So up to six cameras… OK, but if I’m using one camera, does that mean it’s at 1920x960? And I can’t even imagine why that odd resolution… but OK… so if I have ONE camera, is it 1920x960, or is it 640x480 scaled up to 1920x960? Incidentally, 640x480 is a 4:3 ratio (and not even marginally HD; that’s SD through and through), and 1920x960 is a 2:1 ratio, while actual HD is 1920x1080, a 16:9 ratio. I’m so confused.

Their technical explanation really doesn’t make any sense to me, but it does tell me that they are NOT actually taking in a 1920x1080 feed. After comparing aspect ratios and how bad a computer screen shared through the ATEM looks once it’s on GTW, here’s my working theory: It appears they are center punching 4:3 crop of the image, possibly scaling that down to 640x480, cropping that for 16:9, then scaling that up to 1920x960, but only using a piece of it. I mean that sounds utterly ridiculous but nothing else adds up.

Sadly what this ultimately means, I think, is that I can NOT use the ATEM to switch between a camera and a screen, which was my intention. Their screen sharing is soft, but this scaling is way softer. I wanted to go full screen between camera and computer, not have their side-by-side view, but I don’t think that’s going to be possible now. Lame.

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:06 pm
by Howard Roll
1920X960 is a 3:2 grid of 640x480. Your six streams are Hollywood Squares. I’d wager anything going through that pipe gets cropped and scaled to 640x480 then put in the box next to Shadoe Stevens for the win.

Good Luck

Edit: The crop is likely due to first cropping 16:9 to 4:3. The footage is then cropped again going from 4:3 to 16:9.

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:55 pm
by PhotoJoseph
Howard Roll wrote:1920X960 is a 3:2 grid of 640x480. Your six streams are Hollywood Squares. I’d wager anything going through that pipe gets cropped and scaled to 640x480 then put in the box next to Shadoe Stevens for the win.


Ah, I hadn’t noticed that math. OK, that makes a lot more sense now. Geez the nerve of calling it HD.

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:22 am
by Dave Del Vecchio
Joseph Linaschke wrote:
rogersuski wrote:I love how UVC was supposed the be the savior. :lol:

UVC?
UVC is short for USB Video Class which specifies a standardized way to transmit video over a USB port:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_video_device_class

This is what makes it possible to use the USB output from the ATEM Mini or other USB video class devices across different computers without needing to install device drivers (the support for UVC standards are already built into all of the major operating systems). The USB video device class specifications were probably most widely implemented in webcams, although they have also been used in various USB video capture devices as well.

Even though the USB Video Device Class protocol is standardized, there is actually a lot of flexibility in terms of the video stream formats that devices can support (including the resolution, frame rate, aspect ratio, color space, and even compression codec). To accommodate this range of possibilities, the USB video class drivers (built-in to the OS), will typically probe the attached USB video device to determine what video formats are supported by the device. And then the application (going through the UVC driver) will set the current video properties to use on the device when streaming video from it over USB.

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:51 am
by PhotoJoseph
Dave Del Vecchio wrote:UVC is short for USB Video Class which specifies a standardized way to transmit video over a USB port…


Thanks for the lesson! Interesting for sure. And now I get the sarcasm ;-)

Sadly no closer to resolving this and unless a bunch of people complain to GTW I don't see them caring. Unless we could prove it's a BMD issue and get them to look into it.

fun. Thanks everyone.

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:14 pm
by nikwashere
Thanks for the info here.

My problem is GTW or GTM will recognize the BlackMagic Design in the drop down menu to choose a camera, but then the image never shows up. It just keeps showing a spinning wheel as if it is trying to load the signal.

Any tricks for how you got the signal to show up in GTW?

Using a Canon R800 Camcorder currently to test the system.

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:11 pm
by PhotoJoseph
nikwashere wrote:Thanks for the info here.

My problem is GTW or GTM will recognize the BlackMagic Design in the drop down menu to choose a camera, but then the image never shows up. It just keeps showing a spinning wheel as if it is trying to load the signal.

Any tricks for how you got the signal to show up in GTW?

Using a Canon R800 Camcorder currently to test the system.


Oh interesting. I have not seen that happen. But given my and others' experience, unless you're able to go wide on that camera so the GTW system crops to what you actually want to show, there may not be much point in trying to get it to work.

However unfortunately I can't really offer any other advice… except to ask that you can see the ATEM in Skype or some other service? Oh do make sure that none of those other services are running -- some apps won't share the signal and hijack it once they have it.

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:58 am
by kkta80
nikwashere wrote:Thanks for the info here.

My problem is GTW or GTM will recognize the BlackMagic Design in the drop down menu to choose a camera, but then the image never shows up. It just keeps showing a spinning wheel as if it is trying to load the signal.

Any tricks for how you got the signal to show up in GTW?

Using a Canon R800 Camcorder currently to test the system.


I have the same problem like nikwashere. I tried it in GoToMeeting and GoToWebinar. None of both works and I'm just seeing the spinning wheel. :twisted:
It works in Skype without cropping. Any more ideas why GTM/GTW don't work?

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:33 pm
by PaulDash
nikwashere wrote:My problem is GTW or GTM will recognize the BlackMagic Design in the drop down menu to choose a camera, but then the image never shows up. It just keeps showing a spinning wheel as if it is trying to load the signal.


Same thing here.

ATEM Mini works in a virtual webcam software that can then be mapped into GoToMeeting. Unfortunately then there's almost a second of lag. :(

The GoToMeeting browser plugin recognizes the ATEM Mini but flips the input horizontally with no way of changing this setting :x

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:56 pm
by PhotoJoseph
nikwashere wrote:My problem is GTW or GTM will recognize the BlackMagic Design in the drop down menu to choose a camera, but then the image never shows up. It just keeps showing a spinning wheel as if it is trying to load the signal.


kkta80 wrote:I have the same problem like nikwashere. I tried it in GoToMeeting and GoToWebinar. None of both works and I'm just seeing the spinning wheel.


PaulDash wrote:Same thing here.


Wow so interesting that this isn't working at all for so many of you. I'll reiterate again that there's not much point in struggling with it since it crops the image, but if somehow that's OK with you, I'm sharing my configuration that is working:
  • macOS 10.15.3 (19D76)
  • GoToMeeting Version 10.8.0 Build 16786
  • ATEM Software version 8.1.1

PaulDash wrote:The GoToMeeting browser plugin recognizes the ATEM Mini but flips the input horizontally with no way of changing this setting :x


Typically when you see that in an app it's just the preview, set up for your own "benefit" of fixing your hair and not feeling like it's backwards (so it's like looking in a mirror). Usually this is not seen on the broadcast. Have you tried broadcasting?

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:53 pm
by PaulDash
Similar question here:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=108170&p=604297#p604297

If you're having issues with GTM/GTW not working at all, that might be a better place to discuss. Sorry @PhotoJoseph for hijacking cropping thread.

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:38 pm
by PhotoJoseph
PaulDash wrote:Similar question here:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=108170&p=604297#p604297

If you're having issues with GTM/GTW not working at all, that might be a better place to discuss. Sorry @PhotoJoseph for hijacking cropping thread.


Not at all, that's fine.

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:27 pm
by Borissimo
Hey Joseph,

Firstly thx for doing tutorials on YT, nice work :-)

Secondly, I don't use the software you mentioned, but I have a similar problem with my GoPro that doesn't show the superview mode. Instead (although it says it's on superview) it shows the wide mode, so it's sort of cropped too :-S

grt Boris

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:43 pm
by PhotoJoseph
Borissimo wrote:Hey Joseph,

Firstly thx for doing tutorials on YT, nice work :-)


Thanks!

Borissimo wrote:Secondly, I don't use the software you mentioned, but I have a similar problem with my GoPro that doesn't show the superview mode. Instead (although it says it's on superview) it shows the wide mode, so it's sort of cropped too

Where do you see the cropped view, since you're not using GoToWebinar?

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:35 pm
by Jayhawk Theatre
I used GTW for the first time yesterday. Cropping is still an issue. Running Catalina on a 2015 MacBook Pro. 1080P camera signal (input 2) and PPT out of 2012 MacBook Pro (input 1) HDMI into ATEM Mini Pro (latest updates). We were live to 100 people for an educational seminar. We had to scramble to scale down PPT slides and zoom the camera waaaaayyyyy out to make it look right. How can GTW have not solved this problem by now?

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:28 pm
by PhotoJoseph
Jayhawk Theatre wrote:I used GTW for the first time yesterday. Cropping is still an issue. Running Catalina on a 2015 MacBook Pro. 1080P camera signal (input 2) and PPT out of 2012 MacBook Pro (input 1) HDMI into ATEM Mini Pro (latest updates). We were live to 100 people for an educational seminar. We had to scramble to scale down PPT slides and zoom the camera waaaaayyyyy out to make it look right. How can GTW have not solved this problem by now?


Apparently it's not just GTW. I'd love to hear something from BlackMagic, to know if they have any idea why it's happening and if there's anything that they can do about it!

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:59 am
by gspam1
PhotoJoseph, probably unrelated, but I fixed my issues with Web-Ex by using the HDMI Out on the ATEM Mini into an Elgato Camlink then into my laptop. The beauty of this solution is two-fold: 1) it probably won't fix your particular problem, and 2) it lets you purchase another piece of hardware you don't want.

Also a big fan of your channel!

Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:59 pm
by ward@wardcameron.com
I just tried my AMP Iso in Zoom and I have the same cropped issue. I have no problem if I run the ATEM through vMix or OBS and use their virtual cameras in Zoom, but I can't use my ATEM directly. I'm using the HDMI out to a desktop capture card (Flint 4k). This setup works like a charm, but not with the ATEM directly.