ATEM mini and recording ProRes on the BMPCC4K

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Stefan Flos

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ATEM mini and recording ProRes on the BMPCC4K

PostWed Apr 29, 2020 7:37 pm

Hi just found out that you can not record proRes (HD proxi or whetever) on the BM Pocket 4k while connected to the ATEM mini.

You can only record raw. Changing RAW recording setting will result in a change in the recorded area. Setting the 4K to HD will crop the image, as for Anamorphic etc.

So the only option is to set the camera to 4K 16-9 area for recording 16-9 1080 via the ATEM mini. Now if you want to record a backup file on the camera you can only record RAW.

Would that be a bug, or a feature request.

PS I always record a backup on camera just in case, or to keep both audio tracks etc. So being able to record Prores proxy HD (as would be a normal selection) would be a very good and normal thing. Now this option is greyed out.
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vmix user, bmd: intensity, shuttle, mini recorder, duo2, akitio enclosure, canon xa25, sony: Alpha7ii, RX10, RX100v, BMD - pocket camera - video assist, gopro, fcpx, hollyland wireless, logitech spotlight...
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Denny Smith

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Re: ATEM mini and recording ProRes on the BMPCC4K

PostWed Apr 29, 2020 7:41 pm

This is by design, only BRaw is available for in camera recording. However you can record the HD 1080p output from the HDMI on the Mini Pro, if you do not need multiview display, but use the output for program. See bottom of pg 59 in the Pocket Camera Manual March 2020.

You can also convert the BRaw into ProRes in Resolve to get ProRes files. Compressed BRaw setting is going to be a smaller file than ProRes anyway, and you still have the audio embedded also.
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Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Stefan Flos

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Re: ATEM mini and recording ProRes on the BMPCC4K

PostSun May 17, 2020 12:29 pm

Ha Denny,

by design? I think it's a flaw: if i conect to BM video assist i can still rec on prores in camera or whatever I choose. only when I connect to the ATEM mini directly the prores option is greyed out.

Maybe it is because of the control option, but i think there should be a fix. Moreover: you can onlu output HD to the atem mini - so why not rec prores HD in camera (AND: it is because of file sizes as a backup, and mainly for audio backup of the two tracks I record.)

Hope they will add this functionality!
Soon,
Stefan
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vmix user, bmd: intensity, shuttle, mini recorder, duo2, akitio enclosure, canon xa25, sony: Alpha7ii, RX10, RX100v, BMD - pocket camera - video assist, gopro, fcpx, hollyland wireless, logitech spotlight...
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PothierChristophe

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Re: ATEM mini and recording ProRes on the BMPCC4K

PostSun May 17, 2020 10:36 pm

This limitation is indeed very constraining for me.

Especially the crop factor when using the BRAW, while in PRORES this is not the case.


I bought several blackmagic products for multi-cam (ATEM Mini pro, BMPCC, recorder Assist 12G) I will resell the set if this option remains. too restrictive.
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Denny Smith

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Re: ATEM mini and recording ProRes on the BMPCC4K

PostMon May 18, 2020 5:15 am

I asked BMD about this, and they said it was intentional, you can only record in BRaw when connected to the ATEM Mini/Pro switchers. HDMI output is 1080p regardless of recording resolution. As a result to need to use UHD 16:9 setting to get full sensor readout for BRaw. You still get the audio, etc and all metadata, and can use Reolve to process the BRaw file back to 1808p HD, so it still works as a very nice backup file you can do more with.
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Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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WahWay

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Re: ATEM mini and recording ProRes on the BMPCC4K

PostMon May 18, 2020 7:19 am

Is it true the BMPCC4K HDMI output only does 1080p and not 4k?
Is this a hardware limitation or a marketing decision because I surely like to HDMI to a 4k monitor?
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AndyMcHardy

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Re: ATEM mini and recording ProRes on the BMPCC4K

PostMon May 18, 2020 12:36 pm

Yes the BMPCC4K can only output 1080P. This is a hardware limitation from what I can tell.
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PothierChristophe

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Re: ATEM mini and recording ProRes on the BMPCC4K

PostMon May 18, 2020 10:22 pm

thank you for your reply.

I don't understand this logic of bmd and the crop factor of BRAW is really a major drawback.

Offer on one side the possibility of controlling the camera (a reason for my purchase) and on the other side forced the use of a recording codec which changes the focal length according to the quality?

Working in muti camera of different brand become complicated while that is the objective of the ATEM mini pro (unless I use only bmpcc cams).

I am really disappointed by this logic.


PS;
My black magic recorder assist 12 G is not recognized in HDMI output to make a synchronized record with the usb-c MP4
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Denny Smith

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Re: ATEM mini and recording ProRes on the BMPCC4K

PostTue May 19, 2020 2:47 am

Yes, the HDMI out was designed for monitoring/streaming, which HD is more supported by monitors. It was not designed for recording UHD or 4K, as the camera can do this internally or via its USB to SSD.
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Denny Smith
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Stefan Flos

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Re: ATEM mini and recording ProRes on the BMPCC4K

PostThu May 21, 2020 5:57 am

Hi Denny,
The 'design' argument of BM regarding BRAW recording when connected to the atem mini simply does not hold. What is the advantage when you can only work in HD via the mini to limit the users choise?

I will do a test today using my 30m HDMI cable. This is a hdmi to glass fiber one-way cable. So the atem mini will not recognise the hdmi input as a BMPCC (there is no return) and thus prores recording will be enabled.

The only functionality I drop is the control via ATEM. I will have to do that on the cameras.

The problem recording BRAW is the the oversized file it generated, even at lowest spec, you still have to record 4K (when mixing HD) because the output is cropped when recording BRAW HD. And then if I want to use a small part - i have to go the DaVinci route...

I think it's a FLAW and expect an update on camera and or ATEM-minis.

PS just did an 8 hour recording of an online event: per camera 1 TB of BRAW backup....

stefan
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vmix user, bmd: intensity, shuttle, mini recorder, duo2, akitio enclosure, canon xa25, sony: Alpha7ii, RX10, RX100v, BMD - pocket camera - video assist, gopro, fcpx, hollyland wireless, logitech spotlight...
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Gary Adams

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Re: ATEM mini and recording ProRes on the BMPCC4K

PostThu May 21, 2020 3:21 pm

You can consider using an inexpensive HDMI Splitter and use the second output to the Mini Pro. That will not pass back control signals and allow full control of the camera while passing video.

Regards, Gary
Gary Adams
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vivoices

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Re: ATEM mini and recording ProRes on the BMPCC4K

PostSat May 23, 2020 8:38 pm

+1

It would be very helpful to record ProRes on the BMPCC6K / 4K when working with ATEM Mini.
Udo Jansen

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Denny Smith

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Re: ATEM mini and recording ProRes on the BMPCC4K

PostSun May 24, 2020 6:32 pm

Understood, for what ever reason, BMD has ProRes locked out. It could be the camera’s processor lack the horsepower to do both, any thoughts on this Gary?
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Denny Smith
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leaoxp

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Re: ATEM mini and recording ProRes on the BMPCC4K

PostWed Sep 16, 2020 3:15 am

I really think that would be amazing if BMD just give us the option inside the atem software to choose if we want to control the cameras (and loose prores recording on cameras) or disable it... so we can record in proress... that would be the wonderful world lol...cmonnn BMD, you can do this :)

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