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ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 3:28 pm
by Joe Mizera
Just received my Mini Pro, and am pretty blown away over all. In many ways, it is so much better than my old switcher. Built in streaming alone is a game changer. One issue, and I think this also goes for the non pro model, I was really surprised that there is no headphone jack. Alex Pettitt on youtube has done some great videos on the minis, and pointed out you can use a monitor with a headphone out, but it is of course delayed. HDMI after all. He also mentions using the usb connection to monitor on a computer using the webcam function. Unfortunately, I want to reserve that port for recording.

It would be awesome if one of the 3.5mm mic jacks could be converted to a headphone out. I assume this is locked in hardware. Does anyone know of another option?

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 3:44 pm
by Xtreemtec
Not possible what you ask.. But the monitor with Headphone out is the way to go.. ;)

Keep in mind this is the cheapest!! Atem of all times.. They had to cut features to make it affordable.

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 4:36 pm
by Joe Mizera
Xtreemtec wrote:Not possible what you ask.. But the monitor with Headphone out is the way to go.. ;)

Keep in mind this is the cheapest!! Atem of all times.. They had to cut features to make it affordable.


Thanks for the reply. Fair enough, and no mistake this is not a complaint. I just wondered if there was something I was missing. For the size and price, there is nothing even close. And the Pro with an added DVR and live streaming is amazing.

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 1:07 am
by Satureyes
Xtreemtec wrote:Not possible what you ask.. But the monitor with Headphone out is the way to go.. ;)

Keep in mind this is the cheapest!! Atem of all times.. They had to cut features to make it affordable.
And a headphone socket is an expensive feature?

Surely an absolute necessity. They push their software mixer and suite of controls for audio yet we can’t actually hear it!

Audio shouldn’t be treated like a third rate citizen.

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 8:19 am
by eventpix
Has anyone found a workaround to monitor the audio?
A headphone jack would seem to be an obvious design omission.
My proposed setup is to feed the output from the mini into a laptop running OBS - should I monitor off my laptop through OBS?
And is there a delay at all?

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 6:23 pm
by Denny Smith
If you use a monitor with audio or a headphone jack on it, you can monitor the audio on the HDMI output.
Cheers

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 11:14 pm
by Joe Mizera
Denny Smith wrote:If you use a monitor with audio or a headphone jack on it, you can monitor the audio on the HDMI output.
Cheers


Yes, this works. It does however suffer the HDMI delay. Might be good enough if you have well isolated headphones. I'll probably just plug into the camera used for primary audio. Shure, I would have preferred a headphone out, but I think BM did an amazing job overall for a bargain price.

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 3:16 pm
by CreativeVideoYYC
I unboxed my Mini-Pro only to find no easy way to Monitor Audio?
Why give me a 6 band EQ, a Compression, a Gate if I can't determine what it is doing before going live! OMG I would of paid $200 more to have this feature! Or get ride of a Audio input for this!
I saw a You Tube video on WHY NOT to my the MINI-Pro and didn't watch it. I"m sure the first thing on the list was no easy way to monitor audio.
I want to love this switcher and I'm so stoked on what it can do!
Please BM come up with a easy work around and make me eat my RANT!

Suggestion which I though was how it would work when I didn't see a headphone jack. The audio jack on your connected computer would be the audio monitor

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:47 pm
by jonvalt
CreativeVideoYYC wrote:I unboxed my Mini-Pro only to find no easy way to Monitor Audio?
Why give me a 6 band EQ, a Compression, a Gate if I can't determine what it is doing before going live! OMG I would of paid $200 more to have this feature! Or get ride of a Audio input for this!
I saw a You Tube video on WHY NOT to my the MINI-Pro and didn't watch it. I"m sure the first thing on the list was no easy way to monitor audio.
I want to love this switcher and I'm so stoked on what it can do!
Please BM come up with a easy work around and make me eat my RANT!

Suggestion which I though was how it would work when I didn't see a headphone jack. The audio jack on your connected computer would be the audio monitor


Headphone jack on your TV / Monitor dude. I was similarly dismayed, but luckily yes, it sends audio out the HDMI to your monitor.

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:14 am
by Mike Wallis
The lack of a headphone jack is irritating I agree.

I use an HDMI audio extractor between the Mini and PC monitor. These are cheap and give rca and digital audio outputs that can be sent to a headphone amp, mixer etc.

It's not the most elegant solution but it works well.

Image

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:59 am
by eventpix
OK so I can monitor the audio via headphones plugged into my multiview monitor.

However at the bottom of this page you can see the "Mix your audio" dude with a laptop and headphones. https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/au/pro ... i/software

Monitor the audio via a laptop is the most logical way to do it.
There are headphone icons below each fader - but they are not active. There is also a headphone icon under the master fader - but once again I cannot activate it.
What am I missing?

Also - I'm using a splitter to feed 2 x microphones into my camera and in the Software Control I've split the audio into 2 x mono feeds - the Audio panel in the Software Control now has these as seperate channels - however Multiview Monitor now shows only one channel for each camera.

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:57 am
by Steve Kanefsky
Would something like this work?

http://amzn.com/B07MYXCF26

Image

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:36 pm
by goran diffner
I think I have something similar but usb powered if I find it I can test it but it probably should work.

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:14 pm
by Steve Kanefsky
That one is USB powered too but it doesn't make any difference unless it's actually acting as a USB audio interface rather than just using commonly-available USB power adapters.

HDMI audio extractors are very common and usually you're dealing with multi-channel audio such as Dolby Digital or DTS and copy-protected HDMI connections so it should be trivial in this case where it's unprotected video and simple stereo audio. For headphone monitoring this one looks like a good one because it has a volume control and most of them just have fixed line-level or digital audio outputs and aren't designed to drive headphones directly.

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:43 pm
by goran diffner
I am not really sure what you are talking about but If it is an HDMI aidioextractor like the one I have it works I just tested mine and it works. I even did a live stream to youtube to try to show it. I do not know but there seem to be a problem with youtube today cause the stream is still on but no image on youtube.

I can try again to show it works.

But of course it does cause if the HDMI feed carry audio which it probably always do coming from broadcast gear or going between stuff that use HDMI it works to extract it.

The audio quality was ok too, not supergood but that can just as well depend on what headphones you use.

I would guess though that there are better and not so good ones on the market.

Edit: copyproctection for audio does not bother the Atem Mini it lets it through no problem at all. I have played back professionally made CDs from a CD player anything from Django Reinhart to The Young Gods and it works. I use CDs when I do my testings to not get boored with the same song over and over and I can asure you the quality of the content in a stream like mine do not atract anyone so it is just me listening and watching anyway, and I paid for the CDs.

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:09 pm
by Steve Kanefsky
I was saying that the most common use case for an HDMI audio extractor is for people with a home theater system. In that case the HDMI is copy protected (HDCP copy protection) and the audio is usually in a surround format like Dolby Digital or DTS. The ATEM use case with unprotected HDMI video and simple stereo PCM audio is much easier for these devices to handle so I would expect just about any of them to work perfectly.

I was also saying that most of the time the purpose of the extractor is to send a line-level or digital audio signal to something like a stereo receiver. For example if you want to hook a DVD player to a TV but extract the audio to send to a stereo receiver. So very few of them have headphone amps with volume controls, although many will use a 3.5mm jack for their line-level output. But if you plug headphones into a line-level output the quality isn't likely to be as good as if you get one like the one I referred to which has a headphone amp built in.

BTW there is no copy protection on CDs. I was referring to copy protected video which is what you get when you connect a DVD player or a Blu-ray player or a streaming player (Roku, Apple TV, etc.) using HDMI. It's not uncommon to have handshake issues when you send copy protected video through a chain of multiple HDMI devices, but it's much less of an issue than it used to be in the earlier days.

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:09 pm
by goran diffner
Ok thanks for clearing that up for me. I never use it so I never dug in to that, in fact I pretty much only listen to music when I stream. I like to make my own hobby music instead.

But my extractor is a very cheap one and like 5 years old or so and it works pretty ok with my AKG k240 headphones so I guess one for stereo would probably work. And if you can spend money on a Atem Mini Pro you probably can afford to take a chance on a few bucks and get to test.

Probably what you wanna do is to check that the impendance on the headphones works for the únit you got, the K240 is 55 ohms and the sound is ok for a video broadcast but I would not use it to mix music.

Looks like they have made some changes on youtube so I try to make a new cast to this thread and show it if somebody wants to buy one.

They seem to be working on stuff still at youtube cause the sound is still strange I forgot to check if it said on the unit what brand it was so no big success here :D


Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:42 am
by Knudsen
goran diffner wrote:Probably what you wanna do is to check that the impendance on the headphones works for the únit you got, the K240 is 55 ohms and the sound is ok for a video broadcast but I would not use it to mix music.


Those are some really good ear muffs. Got a pair on right now. K92's seem pretty good too if you need fully sealed for feedback issues :mrgreen:

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:24 am
by goran diffner
Yes I love them and you can find them pretty cheap today. I bought my first set I think 10 years ago for over 1000 Swedish but the last time I only paid like 700 if I remember right. The sound quality I got from the extractor with them was pretty ok.

If it works I will take the output from it and route it in to the line in 2 on the Mini and stream it so one can compare it with the sound from the CD player.

Of topic completely: I have been thinking a bit about that CDs aparently are not copy protected which I allways took for granted that they where. I always wondered why the hell Itunes asked me if I wanted to copy them on to my harddrive. But never mind I want the physical CDs so I do not regret paying for them. But why they are not copy protected seems really odd. I mean when computers and the internet hit us artists started to complein about the kids downloading music so they could not afford their jetplanes no more.

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:47 am
by Steve Kanefsky
When CDs came out the whole idea of digital audio was pretty revolutionary. Encrypting the data in order to copy protect it was way beyond what anyone thought was necessary at the time. Some of the reasons I can think of are:

- CD players originally didn't have digital outputs so you couldn't copy the data digitally anyway

- There were no CD recorders you could use to make copies of CDs

- There were no CD-ROM drives you could use to read CDs on a computer

- Computers didn't have enough storage to hold even a single song (even 10 years later it would have cost thousands of dollars for enough storage to hold one CD).

- Computers didn't have high fidelity audio capabilities

- There was no compression technology like mp3

They did eventually come up with tricks to try and make it harder to copy CDs but it wasn't real copy protection. It's all kind of pointless since even the latest and most sophisticated copy protection for formats like Ultra High Definition Blu-ray discs has become easy to bypass. All it does is interfere with people who want to use the formats for legitimate purposes. If it weren't for copy protection we could probably all be using SDI for our home theater connections and things would work so much better.

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:39 pm
by goran diffner
I googled it and it came 1982 and I believe the first CD released on the market was ABBA:s The Visitor and Sony insisted that a CD should to be big enough to hold Bethovens Symphony nr 9.

I believe I bought my first computer an Amiga 500 in the mid 80ies so that´s when I started to think hey this must be possible to use to make music on and sure by om by things started to happen. (I believe paid the same for it as I paid for the computers I put together in the late 90ies early 2000 with two and quadcore cpus.)

Then my mom for some reason bought me a IBM desktop PC. It was years behind compared to the amiga but I could run Cakewalk on it. Then further down the road I had to switch to os x cause Logic which I had started to like was bought up by apple so I went hackintoshing. I have two real macs though a mac pro and a mac mini.

But yes CD players on computers came later.

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:51 pm
by Steve Kanefsky
The Amiga had 8-bit sound so not nearly good enough for high fidelity audio.

No one had hard drives at the time so you were lucky if you had a computer with a floppy drive. It would take around 1000 double-density floppy disks to hold the data on one CD. When hard drives finally became available they only had a capacity around 5 megabytes and cost over $1000 so even then you would have needed over a hundred of them and the price of a house to store a CD :)

It wasn't until the mid 90's or so when mp3 allowed the data on CDs to be compressed by a factor of 10 or more and the data storage of computers had grown enough that you could store a reasonable amount of high-fidelity digital audio on a home computer.

It also wasn't until the mid 90's that CD burners and blank media were available and cheap enough that you could copy a CD onto another CD for less than the price of the original.

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:42 am
by goran diffner
Yes but if I remember right midi was not far away.

Anyway I did a little soundtest last night and it worked just like I thought.

Youtube says it does not like the few seconds of music with a since long dead artist that I used so I believe it´s best I take it down.

So you will have to take my word for that the extender I got works both for headphones at least the 55 ohms I got and line in level for the Intensity Pro.

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:31 pm
by goran diffner
'

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:18 pm
by Steve Kanefsky
goran diffner wrote:Yes but if I remember right midi was not far away.


MIDI is something completely different. It's like the difference between writing the script for a movie on your computer using a word processor versus actually recording the movie itself on your computer.

goran diffner wrote:In 1995 I went to recording school and I remember they had one of the first versions of Pro Tools and a mac but we backed up our music to those small digital tapes I forgot the name of now.


DAT (Digital Audio Tape). I had a Sony TCD-D7 around that time which I think was the first Walkman-style portable DAT recorder (I actually still have it in storage). They used tiny spinning helical recording heads so they were almost like tiny VHS tapes mechanically speaking (i.e. not very reliable). They were also used for computer backup using drives with SCSI interfaces and held about 4GB but they never became popular at the consumer level either for audio or as computer storage.

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:05 pm
by goran diffner
Yup a little but besides all that the extender does let you use headphones to monitor your HDMI audio coming out of the atem mini or out to out to other gear if you want. The audio quality seem to be good enough too considering all the steps the audio in my test had to go through. That it is mp3 broadcasted in a 350 kbps feed and still sound as good as it actually does is not bad either for cheap stuff like this.

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:42 pm
by jonvalt
For the record, as a musician, just wanting to say that owning a CD does not give you the right to use it in your YouTube videos. If you are building a channel that you hope to have monetized one day, do yourself a favor and don't use copyrighted music.

That is, unless it's music where the artist has an agreement with YouTube to not block but instead pay out the royalties that are due. But those videos will also be demonetized for you.

Or do yourself an even BIGGER favor and use your own music so YOU get the royalties (ask me how I know, lol). Then watch other people use your music without your permission and write things like "No copyright intended!" (whatever the hell that sentence means). Haha.

I'm still saving for that jet airplane.

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:16 pm
by Mark Malburg
We just added one of these inline between the AMP and our MultiView monitor for headphone volume adjustment.

https://www.amazon.com/LiNKFOR-Extracto ... 98&sr=8-24

With the device inline, the MultiView now goes black and then will come on for about a second. It then goes black again for 4-5 seconds. Things off-on cycle continues indefinitely as if the signal won't lock. The sound through the headphones is only present when the MultiView is showing.

Does anybody have an idea for a fix? NOTE: all of our HDMI cables are 3'.

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:25 pm
by Steve Kanefsky
Have you tried swapping various things to see if you can isolate the problem? Different cables, different monitor, different source of audio and video? You could also try selecting different output frame rates on the ATEM. That info would go a long way towards identifying the source of the issue.

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:04 pm
by Mark Malburg
Tried other options except output settings. The output settings are where we want them for streaming.

The LINKFOR description does say "Please Set the devices to PCM or LPCM".

Is this configurable in the ATEM?

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:25 pm
by Steve Kanefsky
It's usually worth trying different hardware and software configurations to isolate a problem even if they're not exactly the configurations you want to use. That will help you figure out if there's a solution or workaround that's acceptable to you. You said you tried other options but you didn't say what the behavior was. Did you get a solid signal with audio extraction using a different source device than the ATEM? How about with a different monitor? I'm assuming different cables didn't make any difference.

PCM or LPCM basically just means uncompressed stereo digital audio. The ATEM doesn't process surround sound (Dolby Digital, DTS, etc.) so that shouldn't be an issue.

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:49 pm
by goran diffner
jonvalt wrote:For the record, as a musician, just wanting to say that owning a CD does not give you the right to use it in your YouTube videos. If you are building a channel that you hope to have monetized one day, do yourself a favor and don't use copyrighted music.

That is, unless it's music where the artist has an agreement with YouTube to not block but instead pay out the royalties that are due. But those videos will also be demonetized for you.

Or do yourself an even BIGGER favor and use your own music so YOU get the royalties (ask me how I know, lol). Then watch other people use your music without your permission and write things like "No copyright intended!" (whatever the hell that sentence means). Haha.

I'm still saving for that jet airplane.


If you aim at me I got lots of my songs you can use for free just let me know and i will send you the link no problem. And I was proving a point (using a short clip from a CD on where most of the musicians passed away way back) that the audio quality was ok even when using a cheap device like I did in my test and then I removed it from youtube.

But sure here you go just so you know what you are letting yourself in to.



And this is me 9 years ago helping to test out a DAW that a guy from the netherlands was working on.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/43578623

And here is how the so called song turned out, it got a crappy ending though.



I don´t think you can get a plane for what you would earn from theses songs though so keep on saving up.

Here are my 70 or so songs knock yourself out
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/defau ... dID=189508

And my audio hdmi extractor actually works :D

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:49 am
by Steve Kanefsky
Mark Malburg wrote:We just added one of these inline between the AMP and our MultiView monitor for headphone volume adjustment.

https://www.amazon.com/LiNKFOR-Extracto ... 98&sr=8-24

With the device inline, the MultiView now goes black and then will come on for about a second. It then goes black again for 4-5 seconds. Things off-on cycle continues indefinitely as if the signal won't lock. The sound through the headphones is only present when the MultiView is showing.

Does anybody have an idea for a fix? NOTE: all of our HDMI cables are 3'.


I just got the same extractor and it's working fine for me. I tested it with a consumer LG TV and also going through a Web Presenter which converts the HDMI to SDI (and USB) and connects to a SmartView 4K monitor.

With the TV I was using a 3' Monoprice cable from the ATEM to the extractor and a 15' Cable Matters cable from the extractor to the TV. With the SmartView I was using a 3' Monoprice cable from the ATEM to the extractor, another 3' Monoprice cable from the extractor to the Web Presenter, and a 15' Blue Jeans SDI cable to the SmartView. All cables were passive.

Re: ATEM Mini Pro audio monitoring

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:57 am
by aari38
If you have any computer monitor or TV with HDMI in and audio jack you can use them as an extractor.