Syncing different cameras for live use?

Questions about ATEM Switchers, Camera Converter and everything live!
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dmitrizigany

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Syncing different cameras for live use?

PostSat May 23, 2020 1:24 pm

Hey!

This might or might not be directly Blackmagic related but...

I have the ATEM Mini Pro and been using it with an assortment of cameras: Sony FX9, A7S, A7III, A7RIII. They've been hooked up to a Ninja V each to allow colour matching using LUTs.
They all seem to sync up well enough.
But I also have a Sony FS700R that I would love to be able to use as well. Problem is that teh FS700 has an output latency that is 3-4 frames more than the rest of the cameras, making it useless (I'm doing music stuff, 3-4 frames is not workable).

Is there any solutions to sync up cameras in situations like that? Been looking at the new AtomX Sync for the Ninjas, but it seems unclear if they are usable in live situations or if it's only to sync the recordings. But are there other (affordable) solutions?

Any suggestions appreciated! Thanks!
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Roman Pytkin Pekarek

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Re: Syncing different cameras for live use?

PostSat May 23, 2020 3:17 pm

AtomX Sync is for LTC sync .. nothing for live syncing ..
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dmitrizigany

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Re: Syncing different cameras for live use?

PostSat May 23, 2020 3:54 pm

That's what I suspected...

Know of any other solutions?
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Denny Smith

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Re: Syncing different cameras for live use?

PostSat May 23, 2020 5:47 pm

Most solutions are to sync for the recordings. Originally cameras were sync’d using a Blackburst or Trycolor sync signal, this out the cameras in phase with each other. These were all SDI or analog output cameras with very little delay.

Trying to get a mix of cameras with different signal output delay, requires a switcher that can add delay to the faster cameras, to match them up, which is going to make the lot, have the delay of the slowest camera (FS700). Not the best solution. You might want to consider forgoing the FS700, and get an additional Sony camera that matches what your are using. In live switching, you need to use matching cameras, as close as possible, same brand, same model, etc.
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: Syncing different cameras for live use?

PostSun May 24, 2020 12:11 am

You would need to use a video delay unit, such as the Roland VC-1-DL (which is actually one of the least expensive HD video delay units I am aware of at $795).

As Denny mentions, the problem is that you would need to delay all of the other cameras to match the camera with the longest output delay. Which means adding a separate video delay unit for each camera other than the slowest one. So it's going to end up being more cost effective just to swap out the FS700 with another camera that matches the delay of your other ones.

If there is a post-production editing step, you can use timecode to adjust the timelines of the recorded video from each camera to bring them into sync. But for live output, this isn't really an option.

This issue is one (of many) reasons why many multi-camera live productions tend to use as many cameras of the exact same model as possible. This eliminates output delay differences as well as minimizing differences in color matching.
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dmitrizigany

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Re: Syncing different cameras for live use?

PostSun May 24, 2020 12:53 pm

Thanks for the replies.

I know the ideal situation would be to have 4 of the same kind of camera. But I'm a filmmaker being thrown in to this livce streaming world due the times like so many.
And thanks to Final Cut Pro being so good at syncing up stuff just by the audio I haven't even bothered looking into the world of time code either...

The FS700 was always bothersome, as the delay on an external monitor was behind... but when recording it was more of a nuisance. Now it makes it unusable. Which is a shame as it still produces a great image.
Guess I have to give up the idea of using it for live streaming.

Thanks again.
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Roman Pytkin Pekarek

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Re: Syncing different cameras for live use?

PostMon May 25, 2020 10:20 am

Dave Del Vecchio wrote:You would need to use a video delay unit, such as the Roland VC-1-DL (which is actually one of the least expensive HD video delay units I am aware of at $795).


Very nice HW .. Thanx for pointer ..
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Howard Roll

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Re: Syncing different cameras for live use?

PostMon May 25, 2020 2:43 pm

Technically, yeah definite no. Creatively you can use that camera for non sync bits easily. There are just a few shots/cuts that need to be avoided. Wide shots, reaction shots, and reverses are open season, vocal CUs and intricate fretwork not so much. Often a challenge like that can push creativity, embrace it.

Good Luck
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dmitrizigany

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Re: Syncing different cameras for live use?

PostTue May 26, 2020 12:29 am

Howard Roll wrote:Technically, yeah definite no. Creatively you can use that camera for non sync bits easily. There are just a few shots/cuts that need to be avoided. Wide shots, reaction shots, and reverses are open season, vocal CUs and intricate fretwork not so much. Often a challenge like that can push creativity, embrace it.

Those thoughts have struck me. But with only 4 inputs on the Mini Pro it leaves no room for one angle of something like that. Maybe the day when I get a bigger switcher though!

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