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SOS: Any suggestions with RTMP issues?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:25 am
by Marc Salvatore
I'm in Denver helping a group run an online streaming conference. They are using a software company called Perigon Live to work the chat, polling, registrations etc. and it allows RTMP push. I tested the software extensively in Oregon running exact same scenarios on mutiple days for many hours and it worked flawlessly and the RTMP streaming was very robost on my home connection which runs about 12mbps upstream.

The group ordered internet at the hotel with a minimum of 20mbps upload garaunteed for each of two rooms that are to run livestreams throughout the day. When we tested we have actually clocked 900+ mbps and they're delivering the internet through Cat 6 cable coming straght out of the wall which I have it plugged into unmanaged switch in each room which connects the ATEM and my laptops.

I tried a Facebook livestream which worked fine but when I try to livestream an RTMP push to the Perigon servers the clock never starts and the buffer fills up. A friend tested the same server and key from his location in Oregon and it worked fine. When I contacted Perigon they ran extensive tests with me and said the RTMP push from the hotel internet is never even pinging their servers.

The AV company that provided the internet is basically useless and the hotels claims there are no firewalls or ports blocked on our connections. The company they buy the internet from is WinLink and through mulptiple tech calls it sounds like there are/were possible configurations (way beyond my understanding) that might be tripping us up but we still have not gotten it to work.

Has anyone else experienced these types of issues and any advice on how to solve them?

Thank you, Marc

Re: SOS: Any suggestions with RTMP issues?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:43 pm
by David_Anderson
I would find out from Perigon what ports they use for starters. What device are you using to encode and push the stream out? Check that to see if any ports are blocked there.

Best,

David

Marc Salvatore wrote:I'm in Denver helping a group run an online streaming conference. They are using a software company called Perigon Live to work the chat, polling, registrations etc. and it allows RTMP push. I tested the software extensively in Oregon running exact same scenarios on mutiple days for many hours and it worked flawlessly and the RTMP streaming was very robost on my home connection which runs about 12mbps upstream.

The group ordered internet at the hotel with a minimum of 20mbps upload garaunteed for each of two rooms that are to run livestreams throughout the day. When we tested we have actually clocked 900+ mbps and they're delivering the internet through Cat 6 cable coming straght out of the wall which I have it plugged into unmanaged switch in each room which connects the ATEM and my laptops.

I tried a Facebook livestream which worked fine but when I try to livestream an RTMP push to the Perigon servers the clock never starts and the buffer fills up. A friend tested the same server and key from his location in Oregon and it worked fine. When I contacted Perigon they ran extensive tests with me and said the RTMP push from the hotel internet is never even pinging their servers.

The AV company that provided the internet is basically useless and the hotels claims there are no firewalls or ports blocked on our connections. The company they buy the internet from is WinLink and through mulptiple tech calls it sounds like there are/were possible configurations (way beyond my understanding) that might be tripping us up but we still have not gotten it to work.

Has anyone else experienced these types of issues and any advice on how to solve them?

Thank you, Marc

Re: SOS: Any suggestions with RTMP issues?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:39 pm
by LouisBacker
We installed the GaraninApps.com RTMP server system on a 2017 i7 iMac. This works perfectly when we host from our office, where we opened the appropriate port and created firewall exceptions in our main router.

When we go to a clients' office or an hotel, we use an RTMP Proxy Server address provided by Garanin, which negates the need to open ports and firewalls in the third-party location's network (saves a lot of time and leaves you less exposed to a venue's IT suddenly knocking out your connection). It adds around three to four frames delay, but it is always rock-solid. Similarly, I don't know exactly how this all works, but it does the trick.

Mirroring our solution to your scenario, maybe ask Perigon Live if they could try a Proxy Server address which then diverts to their RTMP ingest address?

Re: SOS: Any suggestions with RTMP issues?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:41 pm
by ishootyou.com
This is why I always use 4G/5G routers on location. Being dependent on any external service is asking for trouble...

Re: SOS: Any suggestions with RTMP issues?

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:48 pm
by Jim Simon
Marc Salvatore wrote:the hotels claims there are no firewalls or ports blocked on our connections.


My first thought is to disbelieve that.

I ran into a similar scenario recently, where our Laptop would surf the 'Net fine, but would not push the stream out via Zoom.

Turned out it was a security software issue on the site's network. Using one of the company's Laptops, the stream got through the security.

Re: SOS: Any suggestions with RTMP issues?

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:15 pm
by Marc Salvatore
Ok, our three day conference just ended and I wanted to give an update. I neglected to mention in my original post that I’m using the ATEM MINI PRO.

1. Hotel av company was wrong and they did have firewall on our internet feed.
2. We ended up needing to get a Netgear level 3 security router which was Then reprogrammed in specific ways to completely bypass the normal path/security of the internet company (winlink).
3. Many things we were told by av company and winlink were inaccurate or unhelpful and we needed to go through multiple techs to find a solution.
4. Sleep is a very good thing.

This was a huge learning curve for me and although the client and hotel av company we ordered Internet from were advised what we needed to do things really blew up. I knew I was going into dangerous territory but after running so many streaming tests before hand I was under the impression It would be fairly easy to accomplish as long as I had a sufficient upload stream. I just did not understand the potential network issues that could come up.

So what did we do? Well... thankfully I had packed two travel modems as a back up (GL.iNet GL-AR750S-Ext) and we ran the first two days of conference at 2 mbps with tethered iPhones that were giving us about 3-4 mbps upload. It was not without issue and we did suffer buffering at times but overall we pulled it off and by the third day we had worked out the router situation and streamed at 9 mbps without issue.

Appreciate all the comments above...

Marc

Re: SOS: Any suggestions with RTMP issues?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:33 pm
by Marc Salvatore
Just found this great page with things to keep in mind when preparing for a future event:

https://varvid.com/streaming101/

Re: SOS: Any suggestions with RTMP issues?

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:01 am
by Robert Baker
Marc Salvatore wrote:Ok, our three day conference just ended and I wanted to give an update. I neglected to mention in my original post that I’m using the ATEM MINI PRO.

1. Hotel av company was wrong and they did have firewall on our internet feed.


Marc


We done a lot of productions working thru hotel AV to stream events and it is usually a nightmare. Beside the outrageous cost of getting a dedicated internet feed we usually have to deal with untrained staff and multiple layers of tech support... exactly what you originally described.

Our solution has to get in a day of two early to test (if that is possible as sometimes the room is booked before our event) or we use a bonded high speed wifi to send signal to a CDN.

It is great to see that you guys ran multiple tests before you went live. That shows real forethought and planning at the core of your org.

Re: SOS: Any suggestions with RTMP issues?

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:55 pm
by Roman Pytkin Pekarek
Marc Salvatore wrote:
So what did we do? Well... thankfully I had packed two travel modems as a back up (GL.iNet GL-AR750S-Ext) and we ran the first two days of conference at 2 mbps with tethered iPhones that were giving us about 3-4 mbps upload. It was not without issue and we did suffer buffering at times but overall we pulled it off and by the third day we had worked out the router situation and streamed at 9 mbps without issue.



Are U using SRT for ingest ? It helps alot ..

Re: SOS: Any suggestions with RTMP issues?

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:53 pm
by Marc Salvatore
What is SRT?

Re: SOS: Any suggestions with RTMP issues?

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:41 pm
by LouisBacker
Marc Salvatore wrote:What is SRT?


Point-to-point Secure Reliable Transport video over an internet connection. Successor to RTMP, though RTMP is still very much in use.

Re: SOS: Any suggestions with RTMP issues?

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:01 pm
by Marc Salvatore
LouisBacker wrote:
Marc Salvatore wrote:What is SRT?


Point-to-point Secure Reliable Transport video over an internet connection. Successor to RTMP, though RTMP is still very much in use.


I see... is that something can can be used when pushing an RTMP stream with the ATEM mini pro?

Re: SOS: Any suggestions with RTMP issues?

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:15 pm
by David_Anderson
My original thought proved true. Blocked ports. Suggest you send the hotel the following link and have them run the test from inside prior to running a stream. You can find out well in advance and address any issues.

http://portquiz.net:1935/
http://portquiz.net:80/
http://portquiz.net:443

Have them send you screenshots of a test checking port 80, 443 and 1935. 80 and 443 have always worked but I have had several hotels block 1935 and I've had to help techs change the firewall to allow the traffic.

Lots of hotels now employ QOS and port or application blocking to prevent abuse of internet speeds.

Hope this helps.

Best,

David

Marc Salvatore wrote:Ok, our three day conference just ended and I wanted to give an update. I neglected to mention in my original post that I’m using the ATEM MINI PRO.

1. Hotel av company was wrong and they did have firewall on our internet feed.
2. We ended up needing to get a Netgear level 3 security router which was Then reprogrammed in specific ways to completely bypass the normal path/security of the internet company (winlink).
3. Many things we were told by av company and winlink were inaccurate or unhelpful and we needed to go through multiple techs to find a solution.
4. Sleep is a very good thing.

This was a huge learning curve for me and although the client and hotel av company we ordered Internet from were advised what we needed to do things really blew up. I knew I was going into dangerous territory but after running so many streaming tests before hand I was under the impression It would be fairly easy to accomplish as long as I had a sufficient upload stream. I just did not understand the potential network issues that could come up.

So what did we do? Well... thankfully I had packed two travel modems as a back up (GL.iNet GL-AR750S-Ext) and we ran the first two days of conference at 2 mbps with tethered iPhones that were giving us about 3-4 mbps upload. It was not without issue and we did suffer buffering at times but overall we pulled it off and by the third day we had worked out the router situation and streamed at 9 mbps without issue.

Appreciate all the comments above...

Marc

Re: SOS: Any suggestions with RTMP issues?

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:36 pm
by Marc Salvatore
Yes thanks... all on my list now. It was one of those cases where I didn't know what I didn't know. Sometimes painfuls lessons are the best way to learn though and there are a number of things I will be checking in advance before taking on another gig like this. Will also have additional back-up plans in place.

Re: SOS: Any suggestions with RTMP issues?

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:38 pm
by Jack Fairley
Marc Salvatore wrote:
LouisBacker wrote:
Marc Salvatore wrote:What is SRT?


Point-to-point Secure Reliable Transport video over an internet connection. Successor to RTMP, though RTMP is still very much in use.


I see... is that something can can be used when pushing an RTMP stream with the ATEM mini pro?

No. It's a (hugely superior) replacement for RTMP, but support for it is still trickling down into everything.

Re: SOS: Any suggestions with RTMP issues?

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:45 pm
by Roman Pytkin Pekarek
WOWZA know SRT .. OBS know SRT .. ffmpeg know SRT ..

Re: SOS: Any suggestions with RTMP issues?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:16 pm
by Jack Fairley
Roman Pytkin Pekarek wrote:WOWZA know SRT .. OBS know SRT .. ffmpeg know SRT ..

Yes, but many CDNs and platforms do not. OBS implementation is not fully working anyway: https://github.com/obsproject/obs-studio/issues/2454

Re: SOS: Any suggestions with RTMP issues?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:02 pm
by Roman Pytkin Pekarek
IM using it to send to my WOWZA and from it im resending into YT, FB, VIM, etc ..

Re: SOS: Any suggestions with RTMP issues?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:46 am
by Marc Salvatore
So now that I've read a bit about SRT is this something BMD could possibly impliment into the ATEM Mini Pro streaming in the future? Sounds like a great way to do things.

Re: SOS: Any suggestions with RTMP issues?

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:42 pm
by LouisBacker
Roman Pytkin Pekarek wrote:IM using it to send to my WOWZA and from it im resending into YT, FB, VIM, etc ..


Out of interest, what streaming software are you using to send SRT to WOWZA?

Re: SOS: Any suggestions with RTMP issues?

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:17 pm
by Roman Pytkin Pekarek
Louis : OBS and ffmpeg