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Controller for URSA Mini Pro 12K

PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:43 am
by TonyF12
We record live orchestral concerts which are almost all output as regular HD via Youtube or Vimeo. We often record the wideshot as 4k, then crop into the picture in post to create more zoomed in reframed pictures out of the wideshot for variety.

The URSA Mini Pro 12K would be perfect for this sort of duty, enabling zooming in even tighter.

Does BM have any plans to release tech to do this sort of thing? Datavideo has released their KMU-200 which does live cropping into 4k, but a device which enabling cropping live into a 12k picture from the URSA 12k would be fantastic.

Re: Controller for URSA Mini Pro 12K

PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:59 pm
by Dave Del Vecchio
The URSA Mini Pro 12K seems to be intended more for cinema usage rather than live usage.

The camera only has a single 12G SDI output port, so in terms of live output, it is only capable of outputting a 4K signal up to 60 fps. It would need to have four 12G SDI ports to enable 8K live output up to 60 fps. And since 12K isn't really any kind of standard broadcast video format, it wouldn't be natively supported over SDI so Blackmagic would probably need to create some kind of proprietary format to enable live output at that resolution. So I'm not sure I'd count on that happening. You could certainly use the 12K internal recording for re-framing in post though.

I could perhaps see them introducing an URSA Broadcast 8K camera that uses a similar sensor with additional ports for 8K live output. This would give them an 8K camera option for use with the ATEM Constellation 8K switcher. And perhaps they could add a live cropping feature or add-on unit for the switcher as well.

I believe Panasonic already has an 8K ROI (Region Of Interest) live cropping camera system, and it definitely seems like a more promising near term application for 8K video capture. Especially since there are not many options for live 8K delivery for the time being, and not that many people have 8K displays to view such content anyway. And even with 8K TVs, at typical viewing distances it is difficult to tell the difference between 4K and 8K.

Re: Controller for URSA Mini Pro 12K

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:55 am
by TonyF12
Thanks very much, Dave.

We already do this sort of thing in post, cropping into a 4k wideshot for an HD output. It works well, but you have to be extra attentive to focus.

If we record a 12k URSA wideshot and drop it into an 4k or HD timeline, will editing programs like Resolve, Premiere and FCP be able to crop into all of it? Or do they max out with 4k or 6k content because they would find an original 12k image too heavyweight?

I agree that live 12k is not going to be with us for a while, but 8k might. Cropping within 8k could be useful for sport.


Re: Controller for URSA Mini Pro 12K

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:56 am
by David Hutchinson
I don't think the 12K is going to help you for Live production - it doesn't have internal shaders and so can't be graded as the other Ursas. Limited to 4K SDI out means you might as well use a Broadcast (a quarter of the price).

Yes it'll work in post production with any major editing software.

If you want to do it live we use a Teranex AV to punch into a 4K input giving an HD output. This works well but will give you a 2 frame delay - as long as you're not switching between the same picture no one will notice. (though audio will be slightly off). We end up with a 4K wide and and an HD picture with 25% of the 4K. There are a number of ways to set up different screen pre-positions to change the shot live.

Re: Controller for URSA Mini Pro 12K

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:26 pm
by TonyF12
Thanks, David.

All makes sense.

If we are not working live, it should be easy enough to do the "Region of Interest" selection in post in Resolve. For orchestral concerts live-streaming is a bit of wasted effort (a lot of effort) when more than half the potential audience is in other parts of the world, asleep in bed or at work because of time-zones. Making it 'as live' (i.e. pre-recorded and edited) cuts costs, and enables making the whole production smoother and allows for retakes in the event of musical accidents.

Datavideo has released a couple of models for cropping live into a 4k wideshot to create up to four HD outputs. I am sure BM could sort this in the blink of an eye into a version of a 12G Videoassist if they thought there were enough customers out there interested in the facility.

Re: Controller for URSA Mini Pro 12K

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:52 am
by David Hutchinson
Try a streamdeck with companion to switch between the Teranex AV 6 Presets.
Just out of interest you UK based?