Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

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Linden deCarmo

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Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostTue Nov 24, 2020 12:52 am

We're in the process of evaluating Dante for an intercom solution. For those using Dante intercoms, do you have any vendors that you can recommend for beltpacks? Similarly, if you've had issues with any solutions, could you post your experiences/concerns too?

Thanks.
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Roman Pytkin Pekarek

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostTue Nov 24, 2020 12:58 am

New RTS OMNEO looks interesting ..

https://products.rtsintercoms.com/na/en/oms

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Linden deCarmo

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostTue Nov 24, 2020 3:31 am

Are RTS beltpacks Dante? Doesn't seem that way to me.
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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostTue Nov 24, 2020 7:17 am

Linden deCarmo wrote:Are RTS beltpacks Dante? Doesn't seem that way to me.

These are the guys I use from Glensound who also do a great Dante commentator box.
https://www.glensound.co.uk/product-details/beatrice-b2/
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Roman Pytkin Pekarek

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostTue Nov 24, 2020 9:56 am

Linden deCarmo wrote:Are RTS beltpacks Dante? Doesn't seem that way to me.


Main station is dante compatible .. Beltpacks communicating with main station .. Are U looking for wired dante belt packs ? Then GlenSound is your friend ..
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Tom_Bassford

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostTue Nov 24, 2020 12:34 pm

+1 for Glensound Beatrice Dante comms.
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Linden deCarmo

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostTue Nov 24, 2020 4:03 pm

Roman Pytkin Pekarek wrote:
Linden deCarmo wrote:Are RTS beltpacks Dante? Doesn't seem that way to me.


Main station is dante compatible .. Beltpacks communicating with main station .. Are U looking for wired dante belt packs ? Then GlenSound is your friend ..


Yes, we are looking at wired Dante beltpacks. Eventually, we'll need to bridge to wireless beltpacks but that's a different phase of the project.
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Linden deCarmo

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostTue Nov 24, 2020 4:05 pm

Thanks for the recommendation on the GlenSound beltpacks. We'll definitely check them out.

Anyone have experience with the Studio Technologies Model 372A Dante beltpacks?
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Linden deCarmo

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostTue Nov 24, 2020 4:23 pm

Found this lead on the Studio Technologies Model 370A from MambaFiber.com in this thread. Hopefully, Greg will be able to chime in this thread on his thoughts on the Studio Technologies Dante beltpacks.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=94461&p=524600&hilit=Studio+Technologies#p524600

MambaFiber.com wrote:All of our cameras are SDI output, and transmit video to the switcher over a multi channel fiber mux. We have managed switches in all of our fiber systems as well, and use a VLAN to transport our Dante audio network to all relevant locations. We mostly use Studio Technologies Model 370A beltpacks for comms. They all talk to a RTS Zeus matrix intercom via a Dante bridge. Simple coax/cat5 cable looms connect the cameras to the fiber racks, so only one wire to drag around.
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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostWed Nov 25, 2020 11:04 am

We use glensound and studio-tech.
I like the studio tech more
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Linden deCarmo

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostWed Nov 25, 2020 1:31 pm

Egor Voronin wrote:We use glensound and studio-tech.
I like the studio tech more


Could you provide some details on why you like the studio tech more?
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Linden deCarmo

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostWed Nov 25, 2020 3:57 pm

Roman Pytkin Pekarek wrote:New RTS OMNEO looks interesting ..

https://products.rtsintercoms.com/na/en/oms

Image


How does the feature set of the RTS OMNEO compare with the Zeus or Zeus III? I can't find the data sheets on the Zeus products on the RTS site.

Also, would this unit support a direct connection of Dante beltpacks from Studio Technologies or Glensound or would a bridge be needed?
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Roman Pytkin Pekarek

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostWed Nov 25, 2020 11:12 pm

U can use OMNEO or ROAMEO wireless beltpacks .. for example

https://products.rtsintercoms.com/emea/en/tr-1800/

And OMS can talk with dante devices ..

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostSun Nov 29, 2020 7:02 am

Linden deCarmo wrote:Hopefully, Greg will be able to chime in this thread...

Well you're lucky I stopped by...the constant static of the mini crowd has really driven me away from this site.

I have many ST belt packs, 370/372/374 models. They are my choice for Dante belt packs, period. Love the "A" versions even more, this adds remote config via app instead of needing to personally visit the unit to set switches. Since Dante is very fiber friendly, sometimes my belt packs are literally a mile or more away from me, so remote config is huge in my book.

How much functionality Dante belt packs buy you hinges on the rest of the system. By themselves, they are just networked 4wire talk/listen devices. Partylines have to be created, either with a Dante based audio mixer, or a DSP engine like the ST Model 5421/5422, or my choice something like the Symetrix DSP Radius or Prism. At this point they behave like traditional RTS/CC 2wire belt packs.

The OMS pictured above is sold as a transition unit. It only offers 4 talk/listen channels, and mainly acts as a bridge between 4x 2W/4W and OMNEO/Dante. You need to buy at least 3 levels into the upgraded software to do all of that. Wouldn't be my choice, I think if you want to get past simple 2W Beltpack functionality use go straight to a full matrix and be done with it.

You asked about the Zeus series, discontinued AFAIK and replaced with the ODIN. The Zeus is a baby version of the ADAM, with most of the features minus trunking (linking frames together for more ports) in a smaller/fewer port package. I have 4 Zeus (2 org, and a II and a III). They are all analog 4W ports, so if you want Dante it happens through a conversion box, changing each port into a talk/listen resource on the Dante network. You then make routes in Dante to connect the dots so to speak. The Tascam ML-16D/32D is the best budget converter for this. Skip the 16port version of the ZeusIII, you really need more ports to do cool stuff. The Zeus and ZeusII are 24 port and the smallest matrix I will own/play with. My ZeusIII is the 32 port version. In addition to party line creation, the RTS matrix units also allow for point-to-point, IFB, and many other cool tricks. They also support the use of key panel user stations (KP-12 and KP-32 being the most popular in trucks). Nothing like handing a director ONE headset that can selectively talk to Dante belt packs, camera CCUs, walkie talkies, wireless belt packs, internet chat like Zello/Discord, phone calls, IFB to talent with return comms, stage announce speakers, as many PL channels as you have resources for .... need I go on??

The ODIN builds on this, and includes the traditional analog ports, 2x 2W channels for old style belpacks, and adds the RVON and OMNEO network ports. RVON uses TCP/IP and works over open internet directly, OMNEO is the RTS local IP protocol. While OMNEO is unique to RTS (proprietary), it's basically Dante audio for talk/listen wrapped in the proprietary packet to carry the data used by RTS devices. The good news is that OMNEO ports still show up in Dante Controller and you can route to/from these ports like any other Dante resource. As such, you can connect any Dante based intercom device, like ST or GlenSound directly to the ODIN, or any OMNEO based ADAM. The ODIN contains everything you need to go up to 128 ports, most of them being networked as the 16 analog on the back is all there is available unless you trunk more boxes-up to 8. *BUT*, they only enable using 16 ports in any combination for the base pricetag. To get 32/64/128 ports (or up to 1024 via trunking!) there is a license fee to unlock the rest of the box. Still, it's a deceptively potent intercom solution in 1RU and the only thing I will buy into if I ever need more intercom than I already have in my personal stable.

If you want to go down the RTS habit hole I highly recommend getting a consultant/guide/official help from RTS. I was lucky enough to break in ADAM system number 1 in the 90's and have been a heavy ADAM user since then with all kind of network level broadcasts. While this is all second nature to me, a newbie would be very hard pressed to gain enough knowledge to build out a system on their own...there are a LOT of pieces that make up any given system and you need to make sure you are getting the right stuff, including programming as OOTB the system doesn't really do anything until you tell it. OTOH, RTS ADAM/ODIN/OMNEO is THE best intercom platform on the planet and will do anything you could ever want it to.

If you want more info than this novelette, email/FB me. It will prob be another month before I check in here again.
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Tom_Bassford

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostSun Nov 29, 2020 6:36 pm

MambaFiber.com wrote:
How much functionality Dante belt packs buy you hinges on the rest of the system. By themselves, they are just networked 4wire talk/listen devices. Partylines have to be created, either with a Dante based audio mixer, or a DSP engine like the ST Model 5421/5422, or my choice something like the Symetrix DSP Radius or Prism. At this point they behave like traditional RTS/CC 2wire belt packs.

Yes this is a key point about Dante based comms. You need something to act as the router / mixer for your various partylines and what have you. I very much like the Symetrix Radius / Prism DSP for this. It's a fully customisable DSP which lets you create everything you could want in terms of partylines, programe feeds, IFB feeds etc etc. It's got a great node based interface for all your signal routing and processing, which creates a great visual map of the entire system. Far easier to see what is going on with this overview than it is to work out the state of an RTS system using AzEdit!! They do a range of different hardware build round the same DSP, you can get upto 16 channels of analog I/O, which is great for interfacing into other 4 wire comms systems / CCUs etc etc.
https://www.symetrix.co/products/prism- ... ism-16-16/

I'm a big fan of the Glensound Dante comms units, they are robust and keenly priced with great functionality. The Beatrice R8 is a very good box which can be used as the router / mixer for smaller systems without need of a dedicated DSP. It has 2 channels of analog 4wire I/O and facilities to make multiple partyline groups. I've used it successfully as the master comms unit for 4 camera PPUs, with packs for director, engineers, graphics and talent.
https://www.glensound.co.uk/product-det ... atrice-r8/

Unless you actually need the features and compatibility of a large RTS system then I would spec a Symetix Prism 16x16 DSP (or a Radius 12x8 if you need to add expansion cards for VOIP or POTS telephone lines) I'd then use a selection of the Glensound and Studio Technologies beltpacks and user stations. Pretty much any wireless comms system can be integrated via some of the analog I/O connections as can camera CCUs and other 4 wire devices. Complex systems can be built and managed via a really clear visual GUI, and different configurations can be easily saved and recalled for specific tasks. The total system cost is significantly lower than an RTS system, and almost any audio device can be simply and affordably integrated into the system due to the ubiquitous nature of Dante.
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Linden deCarmo

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostMon Nov 30, 2020 2:30 am

Hi Tom,

Tom_Bassford wrote:
MambaFiber.com wrote:Unless you actually need the features and compatibility of a large RTS system then I would spec a Symetix Prism 16x16 DSP (or a Radius 12x8 if you need to add expansion cards for VOIP or POTS telephone lines) I'd then use a selection of the Glensound and Studio Technologies beltpacks and user stations. Pretty much any wireless comms system can be integrated via some of the analog I/O connections as can camera CCUs and other 4 wire devices.

Our system is relatively simple. Eight wired headsets (planning on Dante) and 4-6 wireless headsets. Everything is in the same building and within a few hundred feet of each other. Could grow a bit more but that's about it.

We have an X32 rack available. Could we approximate the functionality of the Symetrix solution with a Behringer mixer? What would we lose out on if we just used a conventional Dante enabled mixer?
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Linden deCarmo

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostFri Dec 04, 2020 11:48 am

MambaFiber.com wrote:
How much functionality Dante belt packs buy you hinges on the rest of the system.


Hi Greg,

I had a discussion with Riedel about their wireless beltpacks and Dante per your recommendation of Bolero in a different thread. They mentioned that not all Dante enabled switches can handle PTPv2/AES 67 and Dante Interop. We were planning on using Ubiquiti switches for our Dante traffic but he indicated that the Ubiquiti switches while they work with Dante can't handle PTPv2.

I would also be interested in hearing recommendations for Dante switches and especially those that work with PTPv2/AES67.
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Linden deCarmo

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostFri Dec 04, 2020 5:30 pm

In order to not mix multiple topics in this thread, I created this thread to discuss Dante switches and PTP v2 interop.

Dante Switch Recommendations/Suggestions

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=128254
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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostSat Dec 05, 2020 2:02 am

I have 50 Cisco SG300 series (mostly 28 port) switches. I don't see the need to spend any more on a Dante switch, these handle everything you need for Dante. These have been absolutely flawless for our systems over the years, never even a hiccup with these. Many of these units on FleaBay, usually a safe buy they either work or they don't.

Since the SG300 series is end-of-life (replaced by SG350) I've bought a few SG550 recently mostly to move to 10G ports as I'm really into NDI video now, and also I won't buy anything without POE+ or better. There are also plenty of other users and guides across the inter webs if you need any support or resources on these models.

While I love Ubiquiti routers, I've never been a fan of their switches or management methods (give me a local webpage config anyday). Also beware some of their gear uses passive POE power, not what you want for Dante toys.
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Linden deCarmo

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostMon Dec 07, 2020 5:10 am

MambaFiber.com wrote:While I love Ubiquiti routers, I've never been a fan of their switches or management methods (give me a local webpage config anyday). Also beware some of their gear uses passive POE power, not what you want for Dante toys.


The Edgeswitches are all locally managed, don't use the cloud management UI that the other routers/switches use. The Edgeswitches are also PoE+ compliant. If have seen some complaints about Dante compatibility on the Ubiquiti forums though.
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Linden deCarmo

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostMon Dec 07, 2020 5:17 am

Hi Tom,

Bumping this again just in case you missed the earlier response.

Tom_Bassford wrote:
I would spec a Symetix Prism 16x16 DSP (or a Radius 12x8 if you need to add expansion cards for VOIP or POTS telephone lines) I'd then use a selection of the Glensound and Studio Technologies beltpacks and user stations. Pretty much any wireless comms system can be integrated via some of the analog I/O connections as can camera CCUs and other 4 wire devices.


What does the Symetix Prism provide over just attaching the Beltpacks to an X32 class mixer? Are there any instructional videos available that give an overview programming the Symetix Prism to configure Studio Technologies or Glensound beltpacks?
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Linden deCarmo

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostMon Jan 11, 2021 2:24 pm

If you have experience with both the Glensound and Studio Tecnology beltpacks, I'd really appreciate it if you could provide feedback on the strengths/weaknesses of each manufacturer's product.

Thanks.
Last edited by Linden deCarmo on Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Asgeir Hustad

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostMon Jan 11, 2021 5:37 pm

Just to chime in: I've ordered the Glensound R8 as the main mixer / panel of my system, will let you know how it goes when I get it. Haven't ordered any beltpacks from them yet though - will be integrating it with the ATEM talkback.
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Linden deCarmo

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostMon Jan 11, 2021 6:52 pm

Asgeir Hustad wrote:Just to chime in: I've ordered the Glensound R8 as the main mixer / panel of my system, will let you know how it goes when I get it. Haven't ordered any beltpacks from them yet though - will be integrating it with the ATEM talkback.


Thanks Asgeir. I look forward to hearing your report. How are you planning on bridging from the ATEM Talkback to R8? Are you converting to Dante?
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Asgeir Hustad

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostMon Jan 11, 2021 9:15 pm

I'm getting a few AVIO-devices, analog in / out which will be connected to the ATEM. I've already got a PoE gigabit switch in the rack, so that's the quick and easy way for me :)

I'm also getting a USB AVIO to connect to the Mac Mini that's in the rack with a client for my phone-based intercom system running Mumble.

That will hopefully allow me to talk to regular cabled camera crew via the URSAs, wireless comms via Mumble for wireless cameras and other crew, and eventually moving to Dante beltpacks for said other crew, like stage managers etc.
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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostThu Jan 14, 2021 1:57 pm

To give you an alternative:: Greengo Intercom.
It's not Dante,
It does not need the Infra that Dante need,
It has 32 talking groups,
4 Groups direct assignable to the buttons on the beltpacks
Very light traffic use on your network.
You can assign the buttons and functions on the beltpack and / or from the config software.
Wired beltpacks, wireless beltpacks, 19" units, Analog to IP interfaces..

We have convertert to Greengo for all our Multicam sets. Do/did a lot of festivals with clark headsets and it works great. ;)

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Linden deCarmo

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostThu Jan 14, 2021 2:44 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:To give you an alternative:: Greengo Intercom. ..
Wired beltpacks, wireless beltpacks, 19" units, Analog to IP interfaces..

Image


How long have you been using their setup and how has the reliability been since you switched over?

Also, what prompted you to try them over a Dante solution?

What has your experience been with the Wireless beltpacks (range, audio quality etc)?
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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostThu Jan 14, 2021 4:45 pm

Linden deCarmo wrote:How long have you been using their setup and how has the reliability been since you switched over?

Also, what prompted you to try them over a Dante solution?

What has your experience been with the Wireless beltpacks (range, audio quality etc)?


For about 1,5 years now. Here in the Netherlands almost all big Light and Sound rental companies have these as its rugged, easy to add new units, and lightweight on your network. It doesnt need ptp timing and it doesnt need a master in the network. anything from 2 to 1000 beltpacks in a network without the need to know about network configs, PTP, etc..

It finds other units in the network and shows you there in a config in the network available ( or multiple if more configs are floating in the same network. ) You clone the config right on the beltpack ( it takes the whole config setting of that set inside the beltpack. ) And you are up.

Why we choose it was because almost no company here uses Dante for intercom. And the issue i have with Dante that it always needs an endpoint to go to. So you need a basestation or some device to couple it too..
While GreenGo doesnt have a basestation. Just plug it into your network and have the same config in both devices is enough to get you talking.

Also what i really like is that i can have 4 people or groups direct under the 4 buttons next to the screen. a 2 channel Dante beltpack needs also 2 end points to go to.... Let alone a 4 channel beltpack if that even exist?? :roll: :?

The wireless is based on DECT. Max 4 beltpacks on an Antenna. Range is the same as DECT.. We often setup 2 antennes, 1 on stage 1 on FOH.. This is suffiecient to run a full stage with Me as Tech with wireless, Wireless cameraman running on stage.. etc..
I do feel that compared to the wired beltpacks.. The wireless system is a bit pricey.. And you need 2 battery packs for a full 12 hour shift running wireless. But that is OK. They are not really expensive.

So we are very happy and we can plug the beltpacks in about everywere in our fiber chain as we run network on all our fiber muxers and camera packs.

P.S. We use Ubiquiti Edgeswitch units in all our racks. So yes it is Ubiquiti friendly :D

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Xtreemtec

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostThu Jan 14, 2021 5:23 pm

And if you would doubt about the reliability of GreenGo check this article about NFL using GreenGo for all there stadiums.. ;)

>> Scroll to the bottom >>
https://www.geekwire.com/2017/behind-sc ... unication/
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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Linden deCarmo

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostThu Jan 14, 2021 5:32 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:And if you would doubt about the reliability of GreenGo check this article about NFL using GreenGo for all there stadiums.. ;)

>> Scroll to the bottom >>
https://www.geekwire.com/2017/behind-sc ... unication/


Exactly the info I was looking for! If the NFL considers them reliable, they're definitely reliable enough for us!

You mentioned DECT for their wireless headsets. I'm assuming there will be no FCC conflicts since its operating in the DECT range?
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Dante Intercom Beltpack recommendations

PostThu Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm

The beltpack states FCC & CE and the modules they use are official DECT modules.. So i dont think you have to worry about that ;)

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