URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

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LouisBacker

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URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

PostWed Dec 09, 2020 12:44 am

I use 4 x Ursa Broadcasts with the ATEM CCU panel, but noticed that on the CCU panel you can only control gain in 6dB steps, whereas the camera has 2dB steps. This means that when the Ursa Broadcast is 2-way SDI linked with the CCU panel, you cannot select say +2dB. Any reason this feature is not reflected on the CCU?

It is quite critical when you want to remotely fine gain adjust. If you change to say +2dB directly on the camera, the CCU overrides it, so in essence you cannot make small gain changes when hitched to the CCU panel. Am I missing something, or have I found a software disparity? The cameras are on rev6.7 and the CCU on 8.1.1(if memory serves me correctly)

BTW it's my 60th birthday today, so a fix answer would be a good start to the day!
2 x Sony FX9, 2 x Sony FX6, 6 x Ursa Broadcasts, 2 x Canon CR-N500 PTZeds with MRMC auto-tracking, ATEM CCU, ATEM TV Studio 4K. NewTek Tricaster TC1 and 460. Dataton Watchout, Reckeen 3D Studio & vMix 4K
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Ian Morrish

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Re: URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

PostWed Dec 09, 2020 12:51 am

Tint is the only value you can adjust on the camera that won't be overwritten buy the software or CCU hardware.
The ATEM API indicates that it should be possible to define which parameters are refreshed to the camera but BMD seem to overwrite all values all the time.
I have previously requested that the white balance could be excluded as the Auto Setting from pressing the camera WB button is also overwritten but the software/panel.

I just noticed that the software camera control now dose finer gain settings.
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LouisBacker

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Re: URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

PostWed Dec 09, 2020 12:59 am

Ah, yes. Thanks for the note. I see ATEM switchers is up to 8.5.3, so the gain step fix sounds as if sorted between 8.1.1 and current.
2 x Sony FX9, 2 x Sony FX6, 6 x Ursa Broadcasts, 2 x Canon CR-N500 PTZeds with MRMC auto-tracking, ATEM CCU, ATEM TV Studio 4K. NewTek Tricaster TC1 and 460. Dataton Watchout, Reckeen 3D Studio & vMix 4K
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Xtreemtec

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Re: URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

PostTue Dec 15, 2020 10:52 am

The problem is that there is no FW update yet for the CCU panel to run 2dB steps gain..

Which is TOTALLY useless at the moment!!! :( :?

So we reverted back to not use the CCU control panel for our ursas at the moment and use Software control only :shock: :roll: :roll:

So basically we have 2 CCU panels gathering dust now.... Waiting for a FW update to Fix the steps.. :geek:
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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LouisBacker

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Re: URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

PostWed Dec 16, 2020 9:46 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:The problem is that there is no FW update yet for the CCU panel to run 2dB steps gain..

Which is TOTALLY useless at the moment!!! :( :?

So we reverted back to not use the CCU control panel for our ursas at the moment and use Software control only :shock: :roll: :roll:

So basically we have 2 CCU panels gathering dust now.... Waiting for a FW update to Fix the steps.. :geek:


Ah, thank you for that clarification Daniel. The job I'm running over December to February, I have 3 x Ursas which are unmanned in the studio and I run video control in a separate room, which means like you, I disconnect the SDI prog returns to each and make changes manually, which is rubbish.

So a note out to Blackmagic moderators, please could you pass on a request for an update so the CCU control gain increments match the very cameras the CCU is designed to work with? Thank you.
2 x Sony FX9, 2 x Sony FX6, 6 x Ursa Broadcasts, 2 x Canon CR-N500 PTZeds with MRMC auto-tracking, ATEM CCU, ATEM TV Studio 4K. NewTek Tricaster TC1 and 460. Dataton Watchout, Reckeen 3D Studio & vMix 4K
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Xtreemtec

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Re: URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

PostThu Dec 24, 2020 9:32 am

It works from the Atem software.. Just not from the Atem Camera Control Panel ;)

So you dont have to pull the PGM feed loose.. Just adjust it in the software instead on the hardware panel... :roll:
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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Re: URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

PostFri Dec 25, 2020 11:31 am

I noticed also that gain is standard set to 0dB in Atem Software Control. To get the default ISO of 800 of the Ursa you have to set gain to + 12dB. With the Pocket 0dB = 400 ISO so that’s okay.
By the way, do you guys have tallylight IN the viewfinder? I’m having only tally light at the front of the viewfinder and at the lcd display, not IN the viewfinder and that’s not okay for camera-operators which operate with the camera on shoulder.
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Tobias Dieterich

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Re: URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

PostFri Dec 25, 2020 11:53 am

You should have tally available in form of a green or red border around the picture. Maybe you need to enable some features like grid or so.
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LouisBacker

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Re: URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

PostSat Dec 26, 2020 12:52 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:It works from the Atem software.. Just not from the Atem Camera Control Panel ;)

So you dont have to pull the PGM feed loose.. Just adjust it in the software instead on the hardware panel... :roll:


Thanks again. I'll look at that when we get back to work in January. It is frustrating spending £1000s on smart-looking hardware, then having to use software workarounds to address firmware incompatibility.
2 x Sony FX9, 2 x Sony FX6, 6 x Ursa Broadcasts, 2 x Canon CR-N500 PTZeds with MRMC auto-tracking, ATEM CCU, ATEM TV Studio 4K. NewTek Tricaster TC1 and 460. Dataton Watchout, Reckeen 3D Studio & vMix 4K
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Xtreemtec

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Re: URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

PostWed Jan 06, 2021 4:30 pm

BennoZ wrote:By the way, do you guys have tallylight IN the viewfinder? I’m having only tally light at the front of the viewfinder and at the lcd display, not IN the viewfinder and that’s not okay for camera-operators which operate with the camera on shoulder.

Yup enable your grid. If you turn it off the Tally line also dis-appears..



LouisBacker wrote:It is frustrating spending £1000s on smart-looking hardware, then having to use software workarounds to address firmware incompatibility.
It sure is.. We got 2 panels and this seems like a minor issue to solve..

Anyway they must come out with a hell of an big update for this to take so long.. :lol: :D #HopeFull
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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BlkKnight

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Re: URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

PostWed Jan 06, 2021 5:05 pm

I have an ATEM 1 M/E Production Studio 4K and two URSA Broadcast Cameras. I do not have a CCU panel, so we are using ATEM Software Control. As far as I'm aware, all of our settings (framerate, camera IDs, etc) are all correct as I successfully control the cameras every week.

I'm having the exact problem described here, but with ATEM Software Control. We need to run the URSA Broadcast cameras at +2dB due to lighting constraints, but the ATEM is constantly overriding that and forcing it to a multiple of 6dB. Although the ATEM software shows it is incrementing the gain by 2dB increments, the URSA Broadcast cameras only respond on 6dB increments (0dB, 6dB, 12dB). I can't unplug the return SDI because I need the color correction, iris control, zoom control, etc.

We are on latest firmware/software for the ATEM and the cameras:

ATEM Software / Switcher: 8.5.3
URSA Broadcast: 7.2 (technically 6.9.x for the URSA Broadcast)

BM support tells me that 2dB increments aren't supported from the ATEM software, but from this thread, it sounds like others are able to use 2dB increments with their URSA Broadcast cameras when controlled by the ATEM software. Is it possible that I have overlooked some setting? I really need to get to +2dB on the cameras.

Thank you for any help or suggestions!
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David Hutchinson

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Re: URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

PostWed Jan 06, 2021 9:59 pm

Yeah it is disappointing without doubt. I've also got the camera control with 4 URSA Broadcast and you would really think as BMD have been trying to get the broadcasters to take their cameras they would solve such a trivial issue. But I think its these small finishing off problems as to why most of the Broadcasters are still not trusting BMD.

But also we are the guys completely buying into the BMD system with just about all their products. If you buy a camera control it means you have a big ATEM and many cameras. Surely it's good business to solve these irksome problems?
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Re: URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

PostFri Jan 08, 2021 11:48 pm

David Hutchinson wrote:Yeah it is disappointing without doubt. I've also got the camera control with 4 URSA Broadcast and you would really think as BMD have been trying to get the broadcasters to take their cameras they would solve such a trivial issue. But I think its these small finishing off problems as to why most of the Broadcasters are still not trusting BMD.

But also we are the guys completely buying into the BMD system with just about all their products. If you buy a camera control it means you have a big ATEM and many cameras. Surely it's good business to solve these irksome problems?


I second that, which is why I got this thread going. This form of unaddressed disparity makes me cast my eye around elsewhere, hence I've just bought a Sony FX9 for it's dual ISO, as one other challenge I'm encountering with the Ursa Broadcasts is noise on darker clothing, particularly when keying for green/blue screen.
2 x Sony FX9, 2 x Sony FX6, 6 x Ursa Broadcasts, 2 x Canon CR-N500 PTZeds with MRMC auto-tracking, ATEM CCU, ATEM TV Studio 4K. NewTek Tricaster TC1 and 460. Dataton Watchout, Reckeen 3D Studio & vMix 4K
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David Hutchinson

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Re: URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

PostThu Jul 22, 2021 7:06 am

So I was hoping firmware 8.6.2 would solved the problem of the control panel not being able to step the video again on the URSA Broadcast in 2dB steps, even though the camera can do it the panel only allows 6dB increments.

I thought this is the perfect reason why we can now select the type of camera we are controlling, alas no..... no 2dB steps. If not now BMD, when? This is really important for those of us with multiple Broadcasts.
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Re: URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

PostThu Jul 22, 2021 9:02 am

David Hutchinson wrote:So I was hoping firmware 8.6.2 would solved the problem of the control panel not being able to step the video again on the URSA Broadcast in 2dB steps, even though the camera can do it the panel only allows 6dB increments.

I thought this is the perfect reason why we can now select the type of camera we are controlling, alas no..... no 2dB steps. If not now BMD, when? This is really important for those of us with multiple Broadcasts.

You have to config the correct camera in the panel!!
If you have selected the Generic profile yes it will be 6db steps. But if you select Ursa Broadcast on that channel of the panel it will be 2db steps. ;)
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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Re: URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

PostThu Jul 22, 2021 3:53 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:You have to config the correct camera in the panel!!
If you have selected the Generic profile yes it will be 6db steps. But if you select Ursa Broadcast on that channel of the panel it will be 2db steps. ;)


Where is that option in the panel settings? I don't see any documentation in the manual on configuring the camera model in the panel. Is this part of the new firmware?
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Xtreemtec

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Re: URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

PostThu Jul 22, 2021 5:22 pm

Yes off-coarse you need to update the CCU panel... ;)

After that you get a lot more options in the panel.. Like this>>
CCU Panel Camera config.jpg
CCU Panel Camera config.jpg (31.07 KiB) Viewed 2055 times
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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Re: URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

PostThu Jul 22, 2021 6:27 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:Yes off-coarse you need to update the CCU panel... ;)

After that you get a lot more options in the panel.. Like this>>
CCU Panel Camera config.jpg

It certainly took some time, but it looks like the Broadcast camera chain is becoming more fully featured. Do you think it's ready for primetime?
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Xtreemtec

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Re: URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

PostThu Jul 22, 2021 6:40 pm

I use it for 3 years now since it is on the market.. We do not use the BMD fiber back.. As the intercom is still not up to our standard.. And since Ethernet still is disabled we can not use our GreenGo IP based intercom on the BMD fiber setup..

So we have developed and build our 12G sdi + Ethernet SMPTE solution. ;)

But yes the camera is quite good. No it doesnt compare to the latest GV or recent Sony high end broadcast cameras.. But it's the right camera for the right money!
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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Linden deCarmo

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Re: URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

PostThu Jul 22, 2021 8:42 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:Yes off-coarse you need to update the CCU panel... ;)

After that you get a lot more options in the panel.. Like this>>
CCU Panel Camera config.jpg


Thanks for the screen shot. We'll update our ATEM firmware after this weekend's services. The release notes mentioned that this release added zoom/focus controls to the CCU Panel also. Do you know where those happen to be located?

I created a thread on that topic here. Wanted to find out how it worked prior to upgrading firmware for that functionality.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=144784
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David Hutchinson

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Re: URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

PostSun Jul 25, 2021 8:52 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:If you have selected the Generic profile yes it will be 6db steps. But if you select Ursa Broadcast on that channel of the panel it will be 2db steps. ;)

Yep I did that and for me it just still does 6db steps, I'll set it up again tomorrow and see what I was doing wrong. :?
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LouisBacker

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Re: URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

PostSun Jul 25, 2021 11:50 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:Yes off-coarse you need to update the CCU panel... ;)

After that you get a lot more options in the panel.. Like this>>
CCU Panel Camera config.jpg


Brilliant, thank you. I'll give it a go.
2 x Sony FX9, 2 x Sony FX6, 6 x Ursa Broadcasts, 2 x Canon CR-N500 PTZeds with MRMC auto-tracking, ATEM CCU, ATEM TV Studio 4K. NewTek Tricaster TC1 and 460. Dataton Watchout, Reckeen 3D Studio & vMix 4K
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LouisBacker

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Re: URSA Broadcast and CCU panel gain incompatibility

PostFri Nov 19, 2021 10:04 pm

*Bump.

Today again we had a green screen studio scenario where we had to abandon full CCU control because of this gain disparity between the Ursa Broadcast G1 and the CCU. With the release of the Ursa Broadcast G2, it would be nice to see this old problem resolved.
2 x Sony FX9, 2 x Sony FX6, 6 x Ursa Broadcasts, 2 x Canon CR-N500 PTZeds with MRMC auto-tracking, ATEM CCU, ATEM TV Studio 4K. NewTek Tricaster TC1 and 460. Dataton Watchout, Reckeen 3D Studio & vMix 4K

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