Web Presenter HD + Constellation Rec2020 Issue

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Thibaud

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Web Presenter HD + Constellation Rec2020 Issue

PostThu Apr 22, 2021 3:35 pm

Hello,

There really seems to be an issue with the Web Presenter Firmware 2.1 when using it with the Constellation 8K. I work with a 1080p25 signal.

Here is the workflow I tested to generate the screenshot attached:

A. Media Player 1 still image in the ATEM Mini Extreme media pool -> Direct Stream to Youtube using built in encoder (Streaming High)
B. Media Player 1 still image in the ATEM Constellation media pool -> SDI IN Web Presenter HD (Streaming High) ->Stream to Youtube

Live stream B is way more saturated. Does that with anything you put into the Constellation 8K (cameras / computers...)

Anyone found a way to fix it ?

Image

Thanks,
Last edited by Thibaud on Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Web Presenter HD + Constellation Rec2020 Issue

PostThu Apr 22, 2021 4:02 pm

Actually you could just loop back the monitor output of the Webpresenter HD into the constellation and put it next the mediaplayer on Multiviewer.

You will see that the Output is oversatured of the Webpresenter.

Buddy my says the WPHD also says REC2020 in the display with HD signal on it.. But when you change the output of the Constellation to 1080P Level A the Webpresenter says Rec 709 and its fine..

Not tested this myself because still waiting on my delivery of the WPHD units....
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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Thibaud

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Re: Web Presenter HD + Constellation Rec2020 Issue

PostThu Apr 22, 2021 4:50 pm

Indeed thanks ! Just tried setting to Level A and it's fine... but that means we cannot use 25P / 30P / 24P etc... only 50p / 50i / 59.94i.... not good.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Web Presenter HD + Constellation Rec2020 Issue

PostThu Apr 22, 2021 6:39 pm

That is strange.. So you say that in 50i and 25P it will say Rec2020 instead of Rec709?? :shock:
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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Thibaud

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Re: Web Presenter HD + Constellation Rec2020 Issue

PostThu Apr 22, 2021 10:36 pm

To be more precise

24p / 25p / 30p ---> Rec2020
50i / 50p / 59.94i AND Level A---> Rec709
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Andy Coulthurst

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Re: Web Presenter HD + Constellation Rec2020 Issue

PostMon Apr 26, 2021 6:04 pm

I'm seeing the same problem.
Constellation at 1080p50 into Web Presenter HD - result is everything looks too saturated , and I personally look like I've been in the sun too long !
I cannot use Level A because my Audio Monitor doesn't support Level A.

Sigh , my transition to the constellation is looking troubled already.
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Pedro Ruiz Mateos

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Re: Web Presenter HD + Constellation Rec2020 Issue

PostMon Apr 26, 2021 7:24 pm

I have the same problem :cry:
Pedro Ruiz Mateos
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Peter Robbemond

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Re: Web Presenter HD + Constellation Rec2020 Issue

PostMon Apr 26, 2021 8:19 pm

Ai, hopefully this will get fixed with a software update. Shouldn't be too hard really?
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Andy Coulthurst

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Re: Web Presenter HD + Constellation Rec2020 Issue

PostSun May 02, 2021 4:43 pm

I just noticed another issue - as well as the BT2020 issue , timecode appears to stop being detected when using 1080p25 or 1080p50 level B.

I was in the middle of responding to a BM support request for more info when I noticed.
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David Hutchinson

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Re: Web Presenter HD + Constellation Rec2020 Issue

PostMon May 03, 2021 8:09 pm

Yep experiencing the same issues with my Constellation and WP-HD. Somewhat disappointing. Somewhat embarrassing as I was blaming my captions/subtitles provider.
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Andy Coulthurst

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Re: Web Presenter HD + Constellation Rec2020 Issue

PostTue May 04, 2021 9:33 am

Vectorscope picture showing the problem
661E4AF3-7461-4E2F-A261-8211520CF8E4.jpeg
Vectorscope for 75% bars, output from Streaming bridge via web presenter HD set to 1080p25
661E4AF3-7461-4E2F-A261-8211520CF8E4.jpeg (64.66 KiB) Viewed 260 times
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Andy Coulthurst

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Re: Web Presenter HD + Constellation Rec2020 Issue

PostTue May 04, 2021 9:35 am

I note that the problem is not there with the Constellation set to UHD resolutions.
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Howard Roll

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Re: Web Presenter HD + Constellation Rec2020 Issue

PostTue May 04, 2021 5:09 pm

Andy Coulthurst wrote:Vectorscope picture showing the problem
661E4AF3-7461-4E2F-A261-8211520CF8E4.jpeg


That is an interesting scope, what is the function of the mirroring? Typically full field bars are 100% and SMPTE/ARIB Bars are 75%.

Good Luck
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Andy Coulthurst

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Re: Web Presenter HD + Constellation Rec2020 Issue

PostTue May 04, 2021 6:01 pm

Howard Roll wrote:
Andy Coulthurst wrote:Vectorscope picture showing the problem
The attachment 661E4AF3-7461-4E2F-A261-8211520CF8E4.jpeg is no longer available


That is an interesting scope, what is the function of the mirroring? Typically full field bars are 100% and SMPTE/ARIB Bars are 75%.

Good Luck

I'm an ancient BBC engineer , so for me , Red patch VT bars are normally 75% ( 100% would be difficult for old analogue tape ).
The mirroring is just a hangover for a view similar to the old analogue Vectorscopes ( adding the look of the Pal 180 subcarrier switch on each line. I can turn that off by setting to component view ).
And I think you may be correct that the bars are100% out of the constellation , my mistake , I have the vectorscope set to the correct mode for the bars to match, either 75 or 100%

When viewing the direct signal out of the Constellation , this is the result.
DC25FAE8-2E6C-4FF1-8BA2-0428E2830240.jpeg
DC25FAE8-2E6C-4FF1-8BA2-0428E2830240.jpeg (71.3 KiB) Viewed 222 times
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Andy Coulthurst

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Re: Web Presenter HD + Constellation Rec2020 Issue

PostTue May 04, 2021 6:27 pm

Anyway - the bottom line appears to be that the Web Presenter HD is incorrectly choosing BT2020 when interpreting incoming colourspace for HD resolutions ( except 1080p50 Level A ) - it should be choosing BT709. For UltraHD it appears to be correctly using BT2020.

It would be interesting to see if its some strange interaction with the Constellation, or purely a Web Presenter HD problem.

I might dig out the TV Studio HD tomorrow and do another test.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Web Presenter HD + Constellation Rec2020 Issue

PostTue May 04, 2021 7:02 pm

Hope to get my units soon.. They are payed for last week.. But no shipping notice yet..

Got a Phabrix QX 12G here... That does Rec 2020 and Rec709 so it would be easy to find out which one is the culprit..
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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Andy Coulthurst

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Re: Web Presenter HD + Constellation Rec2020 Issue

PostWed May 05, 2021 10:39 am

UK Support have confirmed they have reproduced the issue and the developers are looking to fix it.
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Thibaud

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Re: Web Presenter HD + Constellation Rec2020 Issue

PostTue May 11, 2021 9:19 am

Hello,

Anyone from Blackmagic has an ETA for this fix ? If it is actually fixable hopefully.

For the moment, the Web Presenter HD cannot be used with the Constellation.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Web Presenter HD + Constellation Rec2020 Issue

PostTue May 11, 2021 12:18 pm

Thibaud wrote:Hello,

Anyone from Blackmagic has an ETA for this fix ? If it is actually fixable hopefully.

For the moment, the Web Presenter HD cannot be used with the Constellation.

They wont tell you until it's there.. Sorry but that is how they operate.. ;)
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control

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