ATEM Mini Pro ISO - Interlacing artifacts?

Hello

I'll try to keep it short: How do I handle 1080i50 input from my cameras getting jagged edges when viewed/recorded with the ATEM Mini Pro ISO?

A bit of background info:
I'm no pro by any stretch of the imagination. Perhaps you know that one teacher, who was into computers, photography - he always whipped out his big dSLR when there was graduation or school play, video stuff and always had that very weird obsession with Microsoft Excel. Oh. He also plays guitar, does programming (java and js) and has a (very small) side business where he does surveying (Drone Deploy) with his drone - Mavic Pro.

That's me.

The issue at hand: Not short
I bought a ATEM Mini Pro ISO out of convenience, so that I was able to record everything at once - first take, kinda - and not really bother with editing but at least have access to the files should the need arise. Worth every penny in that regard.

When doing a livestream before christmas I noticed that the footage from my then main cam - a Canon HV30 - looked jagged. Like, low res, scaled up. Knowing that the HV30 is a HDV cam (1440x1080 1:1.333 - I think it's called), I just thought it was time for an upgrade.

Got myself a used Canon C100, because - why not, same issue. Jagged/aliasing along edges.

Started looking into it and I think I've come to a conclusion:

The C100 does 25p internally, though I am able to see a difference between 50i and 25p on the output - it's rather noticeable.

However. The ATEM only does progressive so no matter what I do the edges looks jagged on all my footage captured via the ATEM.

Of course, I could record internally or run it through my Ninja 2, but that kinda defeats the purpose of the ATEM in the first place. While the C100 does record internally the HV30 does not, which in that case means, I'd have to pair up the HV30 with the Ninja 2, record internally on the C100 and use the ATEM to record everything else - again, not the reason I bought the thing in the first place.

However. When using my iDevices as input (using Filmic Pro and a lightning to HDMI), there are no jagged edges - I therefore presume, that they transfer true progressive that doesn't confuse the ATEM.

To be honest. I don't think most people would notice - my students haven't complained and my colleagues are mostly impressed with the plug 'n' play nature of it.

I'll try to add some images, so you are able to see what I'm talking about.

The Canon C100 output is actually psf, I believe. Lots of threads about it in the forums.

viewtopic.php?t=110374&p=608953

The Canon C100 output is actually psf, I believe. Lots of threads about it in the forums.

viewtopic.php?t=110374&p=608953

Lots of threads, yes. But don’t recall anyone discussing the possibility of outputting interlaced?

To be honest, it all still confuses me somewhat and I’ll be the first to admit I’m still not understanding it fully. So if I’ve come across as ignorant, that’s quite possibly the reason behind. In that case I’m sorry.

So, if your Canon C100's internal frame rate is set to 25p, it is actually recording and outputting that 25p progressive signal in a 50i wrapper (aka psf) - see page 52 of the C100 user manual.

The ATEM Mini does not decode progressive signals delivered via an interlaced wrapper. Maybe it should.
You would need to run the camera output through something like a Decimator MD-HX or a Teranex AV and decode the signal before it gets to the ATEM.

Alternatively, I'm not sure what would happen if you change the recording frame rate of the C100 from 25p to 50i. Will it then output a true 50i to the ATEM (which it can process)? And if the ATEM can process the true 50i from the C100, does it look any better?

So, if your Canon C100's internal frame rate is set to 25p, it is actually recording and outputting that 25p progressive signal in a 50i wrapper (aka psf) - see page 52 of the C100 user manual.

This matches my understanding as well. However, when I switch the camera from 25p into 50i, I do also notice a difference in image. I can't decide if it's better or worse, just - different. On one, it looks 'soft' but colors are different compared to the other where it looks sharper but also more noisy. I'll try to capture some images and post them when I get the opportunity.

The ATEM Mini does not decode progressive signals delivered via an interlaced wrapper. Maybe it should.
You would need to run the camera output through something like a Decimator MD-HX or a Teranex AV and decode the signal before it gets to the ATEM.

This aligns with some of the other suggestions regarding the interlacing artifacts. I think I recall someone concluding, that he'd then need to invest in 8 of those devices. I only have one C100, so for me it's just an annoyance and I do at least have the opportunity to record either onboard or use the Ninja 2 and sync in post.

Alternatively, I'm not sure what would happen if you change the recording frame rate of the C100 from 25p to 50i. Will it then output a true 50i to the ATEM (which it can process)? And if the ATEM can process the true 50i from the C100, does it look any better?

I tried that - as described above. I used the Ninja 2 as a sanity check and it did correctly identify the signal as either 1080p25 or 1080i50. On the monitor - not the Ninja 2 itself, but the monitor connected to the output of the Ninja 2 - I noticed the aforementioned difference in the image itself.

I'll try to compile a set of screen grabs and do some 400 % zoom to show what I mean.

I do however think, that you've addressed my initial request - that I need some sort of device that can take the 50i signal 'extract' the 25p image and then pass that on to the ATEM. As far as I can understand, it seems the ATEM gets confused by the 50i wrapper and tries to do its own pull-down or what-ever it's called.

I know it's on me, for buying a almost 10 year old cinema camera and trying to match it up with a much more modern device such as the ATEM Mini Pro ISO an expecting everything to just work.

Thanks for taking your time and being patient with me. English is not my primary language and as previously stated, this is just a hobby.