ATEM HD8 ISO - Severe Reliability Problems

I write this as a longtime BMD user who has used a variety of BMD cameras, miniconverters, switchers (including the 2/3 rack width Television Studio HD, ATEM Mini, Mini Extreme, Mini Extreme ISO, and built a $300K studio for a community college centered on an 8K Constellation, multiple BMD cameras, 2 M/E panel, etc., etc.). I have worked in the industry for over 40 years. I am not new to this.

A month or so ago we took delivery of an HD8 ISO. We discovered that while the switcher would communicate with the Setup program it would NOT communicate with the Switcher Control application (Windows 11), which showed No Switcher Connected. We swapped in a Television Studio and a Mini Extreme ISO, both of which (when set to the same static IP as the HD8 ISO) worked just fine. In consultation with Support, we returned the switcher to the vendor, who replaced it. The replacement did exactly the same thing: setup worked but not SC. Then and ONLY THEN did we hear that Support had kicked the issue up to Development and someone in Development had commented (rather casually, it seems) "Oh yeah - we've been seeing that issue." No mention of what was being DONE about it, mind you.

On a flyer we did a fresh Windows 11 install on the notebook computer we were using to control the HD8 (which worked with the other switchers without difficulty). After the install the HD8 ISO responded to the Switcher Control application. I can come up with no rational explanation why this would work, especially in the face of the other switcher models working fine with the same computer on the same network while the HD8 did not (SC would show No Swither Present when connected to the HD8). But we looked at it as an odd fluke that had been resolved. We were wrong.

Having gotten SC working with the HD8 we progressed to the use of an external hard drive (a SanDisk Professional SDPS31H-004T). While it initially appeared to work, when we got onsite for a real production project we were unable to get the HD8 ISO to work reliably with it - in fact, the failure mode was extremely insidious: it would record for anywhere from a few seconds to an hour, but at some point, the RECORD button on the panel and the drive number relating to the external SanDisk (1 or 2) in SC would both start flashing in red. It would then be impossible to get this to stop (pressing STOP will do nothing). Shutting down the switcher or unplugging the drive were the only things that would stop it, and the result of doing either would be that the entire recording (linecut, ISOs, and everything else) was lost.

This past week we used the switcher on a live production, recording program and ISOs to the 2GB internal SSD instead of the external 4TB SSD and using Hyperdeck HD Minis to separately record the program out, clean feed, and one ISO input (a feed from a PowerPoint presentation). While the system did record the program and ISOs to the internal drive, it did NOT save the promised DaVinci Resolve edit project file which would allow re-creation of the program as an edit project. It saved the line cut, the camera ISOs, the audio tracks, but no .drp file. We urgently needed the .drp based on the required client workflow. The night before the actual shoot, having spent an entire day on setup of the cameras, the video village and everything else, we urgently called Support with this observation. The (US-based) support rep essentially said he had no clue but would get back to us. We made clear we were rolling at 8AM the following morning and needed a follow-up ASAP. That was the evening of Wednesday, 10/16/2024. I am typing this at nearly 2:00 AM the morning of Saturday, 10/19/2024. The shoot is long over. It didn't save the .drp. We now face days of editing to completely re-create the project (a total of six linear hours of finished material) from scratch - time for which we will not be paid, since we can't charge the client for work necessitated by our equipment's lack of reliability. And I'm still waiting to hear from Support.

The hotel A/V people watched what we went through and thanked us for vividly demonstrating to them why they should NEVER, EVER purchase BlackMagicDesign equipment for anything: the equipment itself isn't reliable and Support won't come through in a pinch.

I would like someone here to prove them wrong. Here's your chance.

I see that the most recent firmware on the HD8 ISO is 9.0.2 despite SC to be 9.6.x. I also see that the external hard drive reliability problem has been written about numerous times, with complaints ranging from May of 2024 back to issues raised in 2023. Yet there is no firmware update that resolves it. And the fact that the firmware goes back to 9.0.2 while the most current SC application is 9.6.x suggests that there has been no firmware update in quite some time, despite evidence of multiple complaints.

If I were Grant Petty reading this I would be SCREAMING. My company's reputation would be on the line. I would recognize that I had let down - humiliated, actually - a longtime customer who had entrusted my company with a whole lot of their business, and had been made to look like an idiot because of my company's failings. I would demand that the problems be addressed immediately and that the customer be made whole via whatever mechanism it took to do so. Because that's what ethical, responsible business owners do. That's why, for instance, I'm about to do more than a week's full-time work for free - because it's MY fault, not my client's, that I put my trust in BMD, and when it let me down, it's my responsibility - not anyone else's - to make certain my client doesn't suffer as a result. The one place they WILL suffer - and I will hear about it, I assure you - is that I now cannot deliver a finished product on time. I would have been able to with the .drp file. Without it - no way.

So let's get some transparency on this. Why are there complaints ranging from months to a year or so about reliability issues with external drives, but no firmware upgrade to address those issues? Why did Development know about the SC communication issue but Support didn't - to the point where they let me do an advance exchange to get the unit replaced when that would accomplish nothing? Why isn't the switcher saving .drp files when set to save ISOs?

This isn't a kid's toy, guys. Either these tools can be used in mission-critical applications or they can't. If they can't, they're not worth anyone's investment. I missed the complaints about external drives the first time around, and thank GOD I found them before this live event. If I had just relied on this product to perform as advertised, I have demonstrated without doubt that the recording would have failed mid-show and I would have had NOTHING of their live event. After this client relied on my expertise, paid for my transportation, hotel, meals, and all expenses for a week because they NEEDED this project. And if I had relied on BMD to deliver what it said the ATEM HD8 could deliver, I would have had NOTHING FOR THEM AT ALL. I would have lost that client and very likely would have been sued to recoup their costs.

Your turn, BMD. Show us what you've got.

Thats blackmagic ,. Sometimes Magic, sometimes black ..

I was read lot of simmilar storyies with atem mini iso or extreme iso ..
im using lot of Agem constelation models and ghere we have no issues .. We do iso recording with 6 hyperdecks ..

I also experience from stability and recording quality issues with the HD8 iso internal.

I really wonder what might help, the device seems much more sophisticated then atem mini pro line, and it crashes sometimes, it shows that software part is immature and buggy.

The device is new, I hope BM fixes it's reliability issues. I opted for the HD version because of the ISO capability, the capability is flawed, maybe I should have bought the 4k version. Does the 4k version write ISO audio atleast?

I'm afraid as an owner of an HD8 ISO I have similar experiences and concerns.

I would add to the list 'Does not record ISO when set to interlaced, with NO warning and NO indication'.
I raise that with them, suggesting at least it should give a warning... nothing has happened.

I also dared to request that when recording in ISO, it didnt automatically record uncompressed wav records of every POSSIBLE audio input, including every possible MADI channel! can unused cameras are at least compressed.. but why keep uncompressed audio of devices not even present?

I would also REALLY wish it could record to external network stores like it seems every other often much c cheaper ISO setup now can for the purpose of live replays.. but it seems not - perhaps one day?

It is starting to feel like an abandoned product... I really really hope not.

Come on Black Magic.. some of these things are not THAT hard (hell, for interlaced, just record the progressive equivalent! quality suffers, but a lot less than having no record!).
If records stop, just give us at least a reliable way to restart them!
Dont waste precious storage on recording digital silence forever...

I have a LOT of Black Magic equipment, and am well versed on the trials and tribulations, however this one has been... a bit of a shock

Peter Gould,

I can not tell you how much I appreciate you taking time to share this long (and sad) post. I recently purchased the HD8 ISO and I have been pulling my hair out trying to get it to connect. The setup utility see the ATEM perfectly by the SC doesn't see it at all. Reach out to support and they acted as though this was a unknown situation.

Here is the good news. I purchased this unit 4 days ago and have a 30 day windows to return it.

I am boxing it back up and send it back to BMD. I fortunately have my old switcher that is working perfectly and I am goin to just hold until BMD fixes this mess, puts another switcher on the market or goes belly up.

BMD has always been a 85% solution and I knew that going in, but how dare they sell a product that they KNOW doesn't work.

Again, thanks for the informative post.

Peter Gould,

I can not tell you how much I appreciate you taking time to share this long (and sad) post. I recently purchased the HD8 ISO and I have been pulling my hair out trying to get it to connect. The setup utility see the ATEM perfectly by the SC doesn't see it at all. Reach out to support and they acted as though this was a unknown situation.

Hello Charles,

It’s been a while since I last logged in. Thank you for your commentary.

So here we are almost 6 months later, and not a peep from Blackmagic Design on these issues.

That is, unfortunately, a fundamentally dishonest response from Support that you described back in December. Of COURSE they’ve heard of these issues. You can see from the timestamp on my message that they heard them well before you contacted them.

I wonder if Grant Petty ever reads this stuff. As I said in my earlier message, if I were in his place, I would be screaming at my underlings that they are destroying my company’s reputation and taking my own personal reputation with it. He’s perfectly happy to show up on all of those demo videos that he does, but when there’s trouble, he seems to be nowhere around.

For a company that charges thousands of dollars for its equipment and expects you to use it in serious applications, that’s nothing short of disgusting.

I am increasingly sorry that I invested in this line of equipment. My advice to others at this point is that they should stay far, far away.

I would love to have someone from Blackmagic Design comment on this thread. Maybe they’re too embarrassed.

Pete

And if I had relied on BMD to deliver what it said the ATEM HD8 could deliver, I would have had NOTHING FOR THEM AT ALL. I would have lost that client and very likely would have been sued to recoup their costs.

I don't care who the manufacturer is. When it is a mission critical event (like your event seemed to be) I run backups and sometimes backups of the back ups.

Your turn, BMD. Show us what you've got...I would love to have someone from Blackmagic Design comment on this thread. Maybe they’re too embarrassed.

This is a user forum. You would be better served talking them directly through official channels and/or your dealer. They maintain a light presence here.

I've commented on this in previous posts, but the lack of bug fixes for known and proven problems is really worrying. I find it hard to believe they can't fix the known issues. Some of the problems are so prominent that it is also hard to believe that they were not found during beta testing. Sometimes also the lack of features is hard to understand, as if BMD never uses their own equipment in real live events. Do they actually have a group of professionals that work with their equipment on a daily basis and give them feedback about problems and feature requests. It doesn't look like it to be honest.

I also dislike the lack of good descriptive bug fixes in the software. If you upgrade to a new version, you have no idea if your problem is fixed or not. No transparency, no information. Just "Minor improvements" and "General performance and stability improvements.". Jus tell us what is fixed.

The hardware of BMD is generally OK, especially for the price. There are some small issues with certain devices but nothing major. But the quality of the software is really worrying me.

Not telling what the Bugs are, And what is fixed is kind of not wanting to show to the competitors what the weak points are..

I mean even Ross keeps a bug tracking.

The problem with most BMD hardware is.. The moment it hits the webshops, the dev team is already assigned to a new product for development.

So to do a proper fault and bug tracking there should be a part of the team dedicated towards working on these issues at all cost..
It has become better over the years to be honest.. But we still see a trend that BMD is all about selling Hardware and less care to bring a fool proof and robust product. But it is kind of what we pay for guys!! I mean the same product from a Sony or Grass Valley would cost 20K+ Would it be more mature when it comes to market? Yes for sure.. But that is what you pay for as they will put a LOT more time into development of firmware and testing before anything hits the market.

Should you expect a feature to work, Yes you should.. Otherwise it should not have been released as feature.. But clearly bugs will happen and they should be addressed.

Not telling what the Bugs are, And what is fixed is kind of not wanting to show to the competitors what the weak points are..

They probably already know. I as a technical user of a technical product want to know exactly what was fixed or changed. It helps me understand if I want to install that update or not or wait a bit longer.

The problem with most BMD hardware is.. The moment it hits the webshops, the dev team is already assigned to a new product for development.

Yes, that is common problem, even at software companies. Mainly focused on the next great feature or product but forget about supporting existing products. In my minds there should always be software developers tasked to investigate reported bugs and problems in existing products. Even if it's just one junior developer per product (line). Preferably out in the open on e.g. Github or with their own ticketing system.

But we still see a trend that BMD is all about selling Hardware and less care to bring a fool proof and robust product. But it is kind of what we pay for guys!! I mean the same product from a Sony or Grass Valley would cost 20K+ Would it be more mature when it comes to market? Yes for sure.. But that is what you pay for as they will put a LOT more time into development of firmware and testing before anything hits the market.

I don't know if you can compare that. The sales model of Sony and Grass Valley is totally different than from BMD. The fact that BMD is a lot cheaper doesn't mean that BMD should not fix existing bugs. Sometimes advertised features simply not work or not work reliably due to these bugs. That is really unacceptable, no matter the price. And if it can't be done for that price they should increase the price. It also doesn't mean you can't make mistakes, but at least fix them.