Blackmagic Forum

Can you use the BlackMagic Camera with the ATEM Television Studio? If so, how?

i think better question is WHY ?

I think "No", because BMCCs signal is 1080p and TVS operats with a maximum of 1080i. SO no connection without conversion.

Thomas Seewald wrote:I think "No", because BMCCs signal is 1080p and TVS operats with a maximum of 1080i. SO no connection without conversion.

That's correct.

Thomas Seewald wrote:I think "No", because BMCCs signal is 1080p and TVS operats with a maximum of 1080i. SO no connection without conversion.

If the BMCC was connected to an ATEM Camera Converter could you then connect it to the ATEM switcher (in my case 1 M/E)?

As to the question "why" I respond "why not?". Adding the BMCC to my ATEM 1 M/E would give me a 4th camera angle. It would also be a camera with more flexible lenses than the ones I am currently working with in the studio.

The Camera Converter doesn't do any conversions regarding resolution and/or frame rates (I don't believe).

The other problem is, even if you did convert the the 1080p30 signal to 1080i60 (or 720p60), it still wouldn't look right compared to your other cameras. Normally, you really want to keep all of your cameras the same make, and even better, same model.

When mixing cameras, you're playing with fire. Your viewer is going to see the difference when switching between shots.

BUT....

if you only wanna do prgressive productions then the BMCC would be an ideal low cost/high quality camera for live production purposes. You could even use some 1/3inch ENG glasses with a converter and use the mot orzoom and focus control. With the built in monitor at the back this camera is ideal for that purpose. Imagine - you could buy a bunch of 6 cameras for just 18.000 bucks! That is not even the cost of 1 (one) HD studio camera. I would really love to use the BMCC with our ATEM setups. So BMD - Please make it happen - it only requires a little change in the BMCC firmware to output (as a second choice) 1080i-psf.

It would be so easy for BMD to put a 1080i psf mode into the BMCC. Because actually the implemented HD-SDI signal 1080p25 is not a standard signal as there is no common standard for 1080 progressive signals over 1,5G HD-SDI. Industry standard for 1080p is 3G HD-SDI. So you will not be able to use any HD-SDI monitor with the BMCC because some monitors simply don't understand the not-standard HD-SDI signal. Even for that purpose it would be better if BMD would implement a psf (1080p over 1080i) mode. With that you could use every HD-SDI monitor.

Cheers

pro.

The Teranex can convert it.

getting the signal into a vision mixer isn't really the hard part.

The BMDCC is totally unsuited to live productions, just like other cinema style cameras, RED, DSLRs etc. They are too hard to operate, and don't have the facilites of even a prosumer camcorder, let alone a studio camera.

I really understand the desire for a low cost studio camera, but the BMDCC cannot ever be it. I hope that BMD get over the teething problems with the cinema camera and they could then maybe think about a studio camera which takes B4 lenses and has the features needed for live productions (Genlock, return video, tally, CCU remote control of iris, colour etc, ).

I'm actually glad the BMDCC cannot be plugged into the ATEM, it saves many inexperienced people from going down a dead end route.

Tom_Bassford wrote:I'm actually glad the BMDCC cannot be plugged into the ATEM, it saves many inexperienced people from going down a dead end route.

Tom i do not agree with you on this.

Offcourse a BMCC (or RED or ARRI) is not really suited for beginners.

But with compatibility in mind it would be very nice that a BMCC could connect to the switchers BMD build. Or as stated here before for the EVF's that dont support progressive.

I think it is insane that i would need to buy a teranex to do a progressive to interlaced conversion to use a BMCC in my crane and feed the output to a OBV that has a ATEM inside. And yes offcourse a BMCC has less options to correct in comparison to the HD schoulder cams. But if taken the time to correct all camera's before festival registration with the option to give a VJ or a switcher the option to use your live footage on a LED screen on stage would be resaneable. (difficult word..)

Red does have 720P output if you need it. But I do not have the budget to buy a RED.

So a 1080i or 720P mode would be very nice to include on the BMCC

Tom, I have to disagree with that too.

The camera isn't hard to operate. You can switch it to News-Gamma to get a videocamera-like picture out of it. I think you will even get a better matching picture if you use a bunch of BMCCs than with traditionally low cost videocams. And even with this News-Gamma setting it has a lot mor dynamic range than traditional video cameras.

It is not that hard to build a control/power box for an ENG lens to control iris, zoom and focus and provide power. With that you would have an ideal lowcost camera for all progressive work. It would outperform every camera in this price sector regarding picture quality, and you would even have a built in "studio-viewfinder". I hope that BMD will change the ouput options of the BMCC. I really cannot understand why you are so negative about another option to get the best picture out of your ATEM setup.

Cheers

pro.

Different productions have different expectations and different conditions. The BMCC might fit perfectly in some productions and might not fit in other.

I wouldn't even think about using it in our productions but i understand that there are usage cases. As for now the Teranex is the solution. A cheaper option would be a CasparCG computer with some decklink cards maybe (that would probably end up more expensive). As for BMCC, there are more urgent problems to deal with regarding the camera (production, lens compatibility etc) so the 720p feature would probably have to wait.

Seeing that buying the camera with a good lens, good shoulder rig and converters would cost as much as a JVC 750 http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL102066 it would probably be better to buy one of those for live production.

Another option would be to enable 1080p25 support for the inputs of the ATEM line!

Cheers


pro.

no .. 1080i50 or 720p50 ..

??? The ATEMs already support 1080i50 and 720p50!

So it would be great if the ATEMs would also take 1080p25 and 1080p30. That would be a huge step forward as these new formats would allow to connect the BMCC and some other gear like laptops and f.e. GoPros.

Cheers

pro.

What you need to understand that the difference between 1080p25 and 1080i50 lies not in the implementation but the hardware.

The ATEM line takes HDSDI but not 3G SDI and since 1080i50/5994 allocates the same amount of bandwidth as 720p50/5994 it is able to do so with 1,5 Gbit/s of Bandwidth. Allow me to cite Wikipedia:

A related standard, known as high-definition serial digital interface (HD-SDI), is standardized in SMPTE 292M; this provides a nominal data rate of 1.485 Gbit/s. A more recent interface, 3G-SDI, consisting of a single 2.970 Gbit/s serial link, is standardized in SMPTE 424M.

3G SDI is what carries 1080p60, 1080p30, 1080p25 etc etc. HDSDI is not able to do this. ATEM is a HDSDI line and can therefore by hardware not carry 3G SDI signals, the processor is just not up to speed.

The easiest way here would be to enable other resolutions within the camera.
Sorry to crush your hopes.

1080i50 have same bandwidth as 1080p25 , or not ? u can send 1080p25 over 1080i50 ...

Jonas,

it is nice to post some lines from Wikipedia but it would be even nicer if you would read the whole thread. The BMCC outputs a 1080p25 signal over 1,5G HD-SDI. That is not a standard format as you have already found on Wikipedia. The right format would be 1080p25 via 3G HD-SDI - but the BMCC outputs 1080p25 via 1,5G HD-SDI.

So if the ATEM line would understand this undocumented format (1080p25 via 1,5G HD-SDI) you could use the BMCC with the ATEM line. Or vice versa - if the BMCC would output 1080psf25 (via 1080i50) it would work too. But for now these two BMD products are not compatible. Beside the fact that 1080p25 via 1,5G HD-SDI will only work on some monitors and other gear as this is not a standard specs format.

Cheers

pro

This from the BMCC manual...

Connecting to Video Switchers
The SDI output allows you to use your camera as a television production camera. You can connect the SDI output directly to production switchers for studio work or to ATEM Camera Converters to convert your signal to optical so you can send it hundreds of meters to a broadcast truck for live production on location.
If you have selected to record in 25 fps or 29.97 fps on the Blackmagic Cinema Camera, and set the SDI overlays to Off, the SDI output will be set to 1080i50 and 1080i59.94 respectively. This allows you to work with most switchers, which only support interlaced high definition formats.