BMPCC Grid pattern - Send back or wait?

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Jonathan Dubsky

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BMPCC Grid pattern - Send back or wait?

PostTue Jan 14, 2014 3:05 pm

Happy New Year everyone.

So i purchased a BMPCC for a shoot recently and, much like many owners here, have experienced the magenta flare grid pattern.

I did a little research, and it looks like the first mention of this was made sometime around October and posts have been made as recent as last week asking the same question.

I've seen, "Don't send it in, BM is aware and working on firmware" as well as "this is a bayer issue, not sure firmware will fix"...

Here are two stills from my shoot, my question is to BMPCC owners: Is EVERYONE experiencing this? I notice the grid pattern only happens on hard flares from the side.

Image

Image

If you click on the image and open in a new tab you'll see it more clearly. (yes i know everyone already knows what it looks like)

I have a shoot on February 2nd and I have to decide, do I call BH and send it back and rush order another one, or will I be wasting time and money doing that, only to receive another camera that exhibits the same issue?

I know this subject has been spoken about, I am just in a bit of a pickle and would greatly appreciate a hasty response as this is time sensitive.

Thank you all.

* Edit

I am a little embarrassed to post this because i know the subject has been discussed to death. Shifting the pixels by 0.5 does completely remove the issue but I figured there was no harm in posting and asking, just to be on the side of caution. I do appreciate your understanding.
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adamroberts

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Re: BMPCC Grid pattern - Send back or wait?

PostTue Jan 14, 2014 4:09 pm

BM are aware of the issue and are apparently looking into it. Won't harm letting them know via support tho:

Support for USA
T: +1 408 954 0500

Support for Europe, UK, Middle East and South Africa
T: +44(0) 1565 830049

Support for Australia and New Zealand
T: +61 3 9722 9700

Support for Asia
T: +65 6339 2171

Support for China
T: +86 105166 1116

Support for Japan
T: 03 5295 5661
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tornado

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Re: BMPCC Grid pattern - Send back or wait?

PostTue Jan 14, 2014 4:12 pm

I think that all BMPC have the same issue. BMD said that they can fix it in firmware.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14535
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16366

So, yes all BMPCC show a pronounced grid pattern with flares or strong contrast night scenes. I saw grid purple pattern without visible flare effect, before lens make flare effect on image.
Nacho Tornado
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Mac Jaeger

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Re: BMPCC Grid pattern - Send back or wait?

PostTue Jan 14, 2014 4:34 pm

As far as i know, this is common to all Pocket cameras, so sending it back won't help. BM acknowledged the fact and promised to work on it, like they did when we found the white orb phenomenon. They hope this can be solved in firmware, so there's no need to send it in right now.
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Jonathan Dubsky

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Re: BMPCC Grid pattern - Send back or wait?

PostTue Jan 14, 2014 4:41 pm

Wonderful. Thank you all for being kind and patient with an issue that has been discussed to death. Very much appreciate it.

For now, I'll send them my 2 cents to join as a voice of concern, but will also shift the image up and sideways by .5 pixels to fix it ( and it does a great job too )
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Dario Vidovic

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Re: BMPCC Grid pattern - Send back or wait?

PostTue Jan 14, 2014 5:28 pm

I have same pattern with my bmpcc, but when I put matte box and light can't go into lenses in specific angle, pattern disapear!

Try!
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Jonathan Dubsky

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Re: BMPCC Grid pattern - Send back or wait?

PostTue Jan 14, 2014 5:31 pm

Dario Vidovic wrote:I have same pattern with my bmpcc, but when I put matte box and light can't go into lenses in specific angle, pattern disapear!

Try!


Absolutely, but sometimes you want a flare. As we did on our shoot this past weekend.

And again, for those reading. In Premiere, I'm simply going into motion and changing the X and Y by 0.5. The pattern completely disappears with no loss of detail.
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John Brawley

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Re: BMPCC Grid pattern - Send back or wait?

PostTue Jan 14, 2014 10:48 pm

Have you found that the grid is still there when you render out your final footage ?

A lot of the time it seems the grid is there but it turns out to be a scaling / display issue.

So you see it on the screen. You see it in preview or QT player (and it changes when you resize of change the scale of the playback....is it there once you go into to Resolve or FCP and then render out to a delivery format ?

I say this because I've seen the pattern, but I've found it often isn't there once I actually render out to a delivered result....

I've actually not been able to create a GRID in footage that I have shot once it's rendered. I know that SOME people have though so maybe check if it's still there once you deliver ?

JB
John Brawley ACS
Cinematographer
Currently - Los Angeles
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adamroberts

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Re: BMPCC Grid pattern - Send back or wait?

PostTue Jan 14, 2014 11:26 pm

I often see it in the preview window in Resolve. Even on Sony F5 and F55 footage. Even in footage without flares. This is not in the original footage or in the deliver...

But I've also been getting it in the actual footage from the BMPCC when there is lens flare. This there even when viewed at actual size in QuickTime or other media players. Annoying but the 0.5 pixel shift trick works to fix it.
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Peter Kent

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Re: BMPCC Grid pattern - Send back or wait?

PostWed Jan 15, 2014 1:28 am

Ah, thank you for clarifying that Adam, I thought the F5 and 55 were suffering the same issue but that's not in original or final just a down scaled preview? (unlike the BmPCC)
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Jonathan Dubsky

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Re: BMPCC Grid pattern - Send back or wait?

PostWed Jan 15, 2014 3:25 am

Haven't tried exporting footage, but my guess is that most of it would disappear simply due to compression.

The 0.5 pixel adjustment works really well, the only down side is you haev a little black on the left or right side of your screen :(. Tried scaling the footage after to fill that black space but doing so recreates the grid hehe. Darn.
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Ben Ericson

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Re: BMPCC Grid pattern - Send back or wait?

PostWed Jan 15, 2014 5:56 am

I ran into a really bad example of this last night. Just pointing the cameras around towards bright light sources, this happened.

I included an example of how it looks in resolve vs the exported Pro Res in Quicktime.

Image

Image
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Christophe Deshoux

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Re: BMPCC Grid pattern - Send back or wait?

PostWed Jan 15, 2014 7:45 am

Hi,
You will find several discussions around the problem in several forums. Clearly you're not the only one to have this grid pattern.
Yes, Blackmagic technicians are currently working on it ... but it is not certain that a future firmware fixes the problem!
In the latter case, then Blackmagic will ensure in the shortest possible time a replacement unit.
Currently, as a lot of professional users, I can not take the risk of using it.
Again, it is imperative that Blackmagic react quickly and well.
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tornado

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Re: BMPCC Grid pattern - Send back or wait?

PostWed Jan 15, 2014 10:59 am

Same frontal flares that I experiment with my BMPCC. I can see it in Resolve and delivery like you. Matte box don't help for this situations.

Ben Ericson wrote:I ran into a really bad example of this last night. Just pointing the cameras around towards bright light sources, this happened.

I included an example of how it looks in resolve vs the exported Pro Res in Quicktime.

Image

Image
Nacho Tornado
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Pier-Philippe Chevigny

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Re: BMPCC Grid pattern - Send back or wait?

PostTue Apr 01, 2014 9:53 pm

Any update on this fix?

I've experienced this problem for the first today as I tested out old Minolta lenses for the first time. On two of those lenses, flares are really bad and had the displeasure of seeing the grid pattern all over my footage.

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