Resolve 20beta issue with Sound Radix Auto Align Post

Dear BMD/Resolve developers and friends:
I am using Resolve Studio 20beta on a maxed out M1Max MBP running the latest Sonoma. I have encountered the following quite frustrating issue when working with the latest build of SoundRadix' marvelous AutoAlighPost2.3 (hereinafter AAP2), detailed as follows:

(1) When I create a simple 'dailies' sort of multiple clip timeline, sometimes comprising of quite a large number of clips (typical 'from camera' clips will either contain two audio tracks recorded directly into Sony FX6 or FX30 cameras, both of which cameras have been fed metadata timecode), but frequently there also may be externally recorded metadata audio tracks (also with metadata timecode) and I will have eliminated all extraneous audio tracks using 'clip attributes' before using Resolves 'autosync' to metadata timecode sync the camera and audio sources;

(2) I then deploy AAP2 to phase and micro-time align the audio tracks in the timeline in question; within AAP2, this involves selecting one audio track as 'reference' and designating whatever others one wishes to phase and micro-time aligh as 'sources' and then setting AAP2 to work. As you likely know, AAP2 works as an Electron based Workflow integration in Resolve and it works fast;

(3) Upon completing its analysis, AAP2 mutes the original 'source' track/s and renders out replacements audio clips for each muted track in a new track; these new AAP2 rendered audio tracks include replacement audio clips for each aligned source as separate audio clips for EACH original audio clip in the timeline and these new/substituted AAP2 audio clips include AAP's phase and micro time alignment which very powerfully matches the 'source' clips to the 'reference' track that was designated at the outset. In other words, unlike bouncing a track or rendering to a new layer on the Fairlight page, AAP2 renders out new audio clips corresponding to the originals that these replace;

(4) If one then renders out an ENTIRE TIMELINE upon which one has applied AAP2, by selecting 'single clip' on the Resolve render page, the render that Resolve produces correctly outputs the AAP2 corrected versions of any audio tracks one has aligned using AAP2, and this very usefully includes the possibility for one to render multiple separate audio tracks, corresponding, for example, to the separately recorded audio tracks that one autosynced and AAP2 aligned within Resolve;

(5) The problem, however, is that when one selects the Resolve render page option to render out 'individual clips' from the timeline one has used AAP2 on, Resolve, for whatever reason, will not render out the AAP2 created and rendered audio clips for the tracks that Resolve has no problem working with and rendering when one choses the render page option to render out a 'single clip'; Resolve instead outputs the original, non-AAP2 aligned clips, bizarrely;

I have tested this at length and no matter what one does, this problem persists. I have tried to lock tracks, link clips, etc., ad nauseum, to no avail. Even when one goes to the extreme of deleting from the project the audio clips, and tracks containing, the original 'source' audio clips, which AAP2 replaced with its wonderfully aligned audio clips and new AAP2 created audio tracks, Resolve still, somehow, renders out the original audio clips that were replaced by the AAP2 generated aligned clips.

This appears to be a program bug within Resolve and one that I kindy request BMD and its Resolve audio development team kindly remedy ASAP, thereby accomodating practical and expedient post-production, including 'dailies' workflows that avail themselves of the incedibly powerful AAP2, and which include the need for Resolve to rapidly render out INDIVIDUAL AAP2 corrected audio/video clips from a single timeline.

P.S. Final test just done: 'bouncing selected track in place' for the track containing the AAP2 generated clips also does not work, nor does 'bounce selected tracks to new layer' - while both of these actions create properly AAP2 aligned outputs (in a single audio clip, meaning I need to manually 'Apple B' split this new layer or bounced track between every clip in the timeline), when one render an individual clip out from the timeline, Resolve continues to render the long before delated from the project original (non-AAP2 aligned clip), instead of the AAP2 generated one that replaced it.
THANK YOU.

After many more wasted hours, it has become clear that the issue here is that the only way Resolve's render page maintains accurate multiple audio track alignment is if one uses the 'single clip' setting when rendering a timeline on the render page; the render 'individual clips' option on the render page simply does not properly align multiple audio tracks within the individual clips that it renders out using this setting, no matter what one does (and I assure you I have now tried everything imaginable!).

This is a serious oversight/design problem, given how much time and effort editors and audio post pros invest in properly aligning and synchronizng audio files and sources. Please invest the resources to revise and make the rendering of individual clips from timelines work accurately and reliably - or please do not leave this faulty option there to aggravate users who have every reason to rely on it operating accurately and predictably as it logically should. Thank you.

In the end, the only way to make Resolve render more than 100 clips, which I had placed in a single timeline as part of my audio/color 'dailies' workflow, while preserving the alignment of two carefully aligned separate audio tracks was to highlight each clip in my timeline, one-by-one, and then render each clip out on its own, with the Resolve render page set to 'single clip'.
Needless to say, this was quite a tedious process, and all the more so because once I had my que of more than 100 renders assembled, when I highlighted them all and instructed Resolve to 'render all', Resolve froze, meaning that I had to force quit and then render them out from this que in batches of 15 or so. I kept an eye on my Mac's 'activity monitor' during this rendering process and never saw Resolve use more than 30gb of the 48gb of Ram available to it on my maxed out M1Max MBP, by the way.
In summary, please fix the Resolve Studio capacity to accurately render aligned separate audio tracks using the 'individual clips' setting on the render page - or get rid of it if it can not be made to work accurately.
Thank you.

Interesting bug, and good to know as I was considering buying auto align post...
Do you have any timeline or audio effects caching turned on?
Was this an issue in v19 as well or is this behaviour new in v20 beta?

Auto Align Post 2 is outstanding and works wonderfully in Resolve 19 and 20beta both. I swear by it and use it frequently because it allows for a whole other level of post audio mixing for the doc styler run and gun work I frequently do.

I have narrowed the issue down, albeit in a convoluted process that I explain in detail above only because I was working thru it (!), and it is that Resolve's render page only maintains multiple audio track output alignment properly when one selects 'entire timeline' - Resolve loses multiple audio track alignment when one renders with 'individual clips' selected.

For and efficient workflow, I want to AAP2 align multiple audio tracks in a many clip timeline and output these clips as 'individual clips' so that the editor who receives them has these perfectly AAP2 aligned audio tracks, each on a separate audio track, for each clip.

[Peter Chamberlain]

Thomas, on the video tab of render settings, with individual clip mode, do you have "Render timeline effects' checked?

If not, can you try that and check sync.

Thank you, Peter, for this suggestion.
Tried checking 'render timeline effects' box (and at first thought that had fixed sync issue, but I had mistakenly not checked the box for 'render discrete audio tracks').
Once I set everything correctly (see attached screenshots), checking the 'render timeline effects' box you suggested resulted in there being no audio at all on what should have been two discrete audio tracks on the rendered file; when I then rendered again without the 'render timeline effects' box checked - just to be doubly sure that this checked box you suggested was the issue - I get the same out of sync two tracks of audio I have been grappling with.

Another not altogether unrelated angle to this problem, which I also request for BMD please to investigate and correct ASAP - these are very much needed functionalities for a reasonable and efficient post-production workflow:
- As I have explained in detail in the above posts, checking the box for 'render timeline effects' does not solve the problem at hand - when I check that box, no audio at all is rendered out - just silence;
- In fact, and as I have seen other Resolve users raise elsewhere here in the BMD forum, as long as five years ago, in many post-production workflows one needs to render clips out that retain the metadata source timecode from the original files; one way that Resolve apparently allowed for this to be done, according to these prior BMD forum posts, was by commanding Resolve to render 'individual clips' on the render page - as this entire string of posts has made clear, however, Resolve will not render properly aligned audio tracks when one commands Resolve to render 'individual clips' on the render page.
- to conclude: Resolve will not render properly aligned audio tracks when one commands it to render 'individual clips'; if one needs original file source timecode metadata to be preserved in rendered clips, however, one apparently must select the 'individual clips' option on the render page (which causes Resolve to misalign audio tracks). Catch-22.

Just tested this issue again now with newly installed 20beta3 Studio, Peter and all, and it seems your programmers have fixed this pesky little issue - so long as one checks the box for 'render timeline effects' box on the video pane of the render page.

Now in beta3, by checking the box for 'render timeline effects' in the video pane of the render page, my test render of 'single clips' from a timeline where I had used Auto Align Post 2 to align audio tracks includes two perfectly phase and micro-aligned separate audio tracks, as needed and expected. Moreover, these individually rendered clips also retain the very much coveted metadate source time code.

[Now, if BMD can see fit to and figure out how to make it possible to export timeline transcripts that cite source timecode for each clip in the timeline (instead of, or in addition to, record timecode for the given timeline), you will have shot the moon ]

BMD's prompt attention to this issue very much appreciated.

When I first tested, above, selecting one clip from a large timeline of clips and rendering it out as ‘render individual clips’ and with ‘render discrete tracks’ selected in audio pane, the resulting rendered test clip was perfectly aligned and included discrete audio tracks, which is the whole point and was the expected behavior.
Today, however, when I rendered an entire 100 clip timeline, instead of ‘discrete audio tracks’ being produced with each of the rendered ‘individual clips’, each individual rendered clip instead has two identical tracks that combine the two very deliberately discrete audio tracks on the timeline I rendered the individual clips from. Thus totally defeating the common post production need to render separate audio tracks.
'Render individual tracks' does not work when selecting Linear PCM, nor AAC, and not in 24, 32 or 32 bit float. Throughout this lengthy effort, my renders have been, and need to be, HD ProRes HQ 422 and I am on a maxed out M1Max MBP running latest Sequoia and Resolve Studio beta3.
Needless to say, when one selects ‘render discreet tracks’ in the audio pane, one expects and needs discreet tracks to be produced on the rendered individual clips; when one choses 'render individual clips' from a timeline and ‘render discreet tracks’ presents as an option, that needs to work.
Will greatly appreciate if BMD will fix this in the next 20 Studio release/ASAP - and please make clear, whether here or in that new release, that this has been fixed. Am expending much time and effort trying to make this functionality work, feeding back to BMD and working around this issue, thus to understand what is being done or has been done would seem appropriate. Thank you.

single clip options

single clip options.png (210.99 KiB) Viewed 810 times

Attached screenshots above, for your clarity:

- when one selects 'render single clip' on the audio pane of the render page, one is given the option to select which discreet track will go on what audio track on the render (as it should be for professional workflows);

- when one selects 'render individual clips' on the audio pane of the render page, but one has NOT selected 'render timeline effects' on the video pane of the render page, one is given different options, but no option to select which discreet track will go what track of the render (moreover if one selects 'render discreet tracks' and 'one track per channel' the rendered file will include discreet audio tracks consistent with the timeline but, as described ad nauseum above, these discreet audio tracks will not be in sync);

- when one selects 'render individual clips' on the audio pane of the render page, but one selects 'render timeline effects' on the video pane of the render page (as is required for the audio tracks to be rendered in sync), one is yet again given entirely different options that do not include selecting which discreet track will go on what track of the render and, moreover, no matter what options one selects, the resulting renders have two identical audio tracks that both combine the two discreet audio channels on the timeline one renders from - and that one sought to render as discreet tracks.

Thanks for putting Resolve 20 Studio beta4 out.
Unfortunately, this crucial issue has not been addressed, which makes my frequently required doc post-production workflow unworkable - and I can not but imagine that many many other Resolve users also share this need.
Will greatly appreciate if BMD will address this bizarre render page audio inconsistency ASAP, as explained in detail, after extensive testing, in my prior post.
One needs to be able to 'render individual clips' in a many clip timeline such that the resulting rendered individual clips both retain embedded metadata timecode and also retain properly aligned separate audio tracks.
Thank you.

Upgraded this morning to the just released release version of Resolve Studio 20.

Unfortunately, the audio track issue outlined above, namely not being able to render a timeline of clips as individual clips with discrete audio tracks while maintaining audio track alignment, has not been rectified.

Will greatly appreciate hearing acknowledgement from BMD that it understands this important workflow issue and when, or whether, BMD will address and rectify it.

Thank you.

Thank you for investigating this issue. We are also a big fan of AAP2, but did not encounter this problem as we never exported auto aligned tracks as individual clips from Resolve yet. Do I understand you correctly that Resolve messes up audio sync of tracks by randomly giving them an 'offset' when rendering out individual clips?

We had another issue with AAP2 and Resolve Studio 20, but Sound Radix was very responsive (as usual!) and solved it within a few days in the newest release. Very happy with Auto Align Post 2, it's a great plugin from a great company.

Having your sync messed up during rendering is not great however. I hope Blackmagic Design will look into this matter shortly, as you seem to have done quite a bit of testing and sync audio during rendering is not a minor detail.

Indeed, that is the issue and I too agree and greatly apprecaite that SoundRadix has been dilligent in keeping their outstanding and incredibly useful plugin working thru a torrent of Resolve updates.
Yes, issue is that when one renders individual clips from a multiclip timeline that one has aligned using AAP2.3, one must check the box for 'render timeline effects' on the video pane of the render page for the aligning work AAP2 did on that timeline to show up in the rendered individual clips. But when that 'render timeline effects' box has been checked in the video pane, checking the box for 'render discrete tracks' in the audio pane of the render page does not actually create discrete audio tracks on the rendered individual clips. No matter what one does, once 'render timeline effects' is checked, Resolve will only render individual clips with audio tracks that combine the AAP2 source and AAP2 rendered/aligned audio tracks together (and if one tries by not checking 'render timeline effects' the rendered individual clips from a timeline one aligned using AAP2 will not be aligned at all when rendered as individual clips - as if one never did the AAP2 alignment). The whole point is to be able to render discrete audio tracks that have been aligned using AAP2 (e.g., so that one can decide the finder nuances of how to mix them together later in the audio post process) but there is simply is no way to accomplish discrete audio tracks when one needs to render individual clips. I hope BMD will figure this out and fix this little gremline ASAP as it is an important and useful capability for many doc and fiction film post workflows.