A solution for dropping frames on the pocket cam

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

ssnomar

  • Posts: 60
  • Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:14 am

A solution for dropping frames on the pocket cam

PostWed Jan 22, 2014 11:50 pm

I recently purchased two 64GB versions of the PNY Elite Performance 90 MB/s SDXC cards.

When using them in my pocket cam, I would intermittently get dropped frames. Not all the time. Just SOME of the time.

The rated speed of the cards SHOULD have been fast enough, but for some reason I wasn't getting that performance consistently.

However, I recently formatted both cards with the SD Formatter:

https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter_4

Since then, I haven't had any dropped frames in my videos, but have not tested them exhaustively.

From a quick search, I see that this solution has been mentioned before, but I was interested in more results. Thus, if anyone else has a SD card (a card you know that is not a counterfeit) that SHOULD be fast enough, but has been dropping frames, please try formatting the card with this software and report back. Thanks.
Offline
User avatar

AdrianSierkowski

  • Posts: 929
  • Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:59 pm
  • Location: Los Angeles.

Re: A solution for dropping frames on the pocket cam

PostThu Jan 23, 2014 12:28 am

You realize the 90MB/s is only the read speed of the cards; it has nothing to do with the write speed. And while I am sure you can get slightly better performance with better formatting of the cards, I'd not recommend relying upon it. I'd just get some sandisks. There's little reason to try saving a few dollars on media which may or may not work.
Adrian Sierkowski
Director of Photography
http://www.adriansierkowski.com
adrian@adriansierkowski.com
Offline
User avatar

Kofa

  • Posts: 378
  • Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:54 pm
  • Location: Los Angeles

Re: A solution for dropping frames on the pocket cam

PostThu Jan 23, 2014 12:32 am

This has been discussed several times... over and over and over and over. Using anything other than the approved cards by Blackmagic is a gamble. You may save a few bucks and it may "work" but you're bound to encounter issues.
@misterkofa
junegemini.com
Offline

ssnomar

  • Posts: 60
  • Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:14 am

Re: A solution for dropping frames on the pocket cam

PostThu Jan 23, 2014 12:48 am

misterkofa wrote:This has been discussed several times... over and over and over and over. Using anything other than the approved cards by Blackmagic is a gamble. You may save a few bucks and it may "work" but you're bound to encounter issues.


I AM using a BMD approved SDHC cards. The problem is that the actual cards that BMD SAY will work don't ACTUALLY work, not 100% of the time.

I already returned two PNY cards (though I see the cards have since been removed) and one Delkin Elite 16GB card that were approved by BMD, but still dropped frames. Additionally, I tried a friend's SanDisk Extreme card that flashed red while recording ProRes but didn't actually seem to drop frames when played back on a computer - at least as far as I could tell.

That's why I'm trying to figure out if using an SD Card Formatter will actually make the cards work that BMD themselves say should work.
Offline

ssnomar

  • Posts: 60
  • Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:14 am

Re: A solution for dropping frames on the pocket cam

PostThu Jan 23, 2014 12:55 am

AdrianSierkowski wrote:You realize the 90MB/s is only the read speed of the cards; it has nothing to do with the write speed. And while I am sure you can get slightly better performance with better formatting of the cards, I'd not recommend relying upon it. I'd just get some sandisks. There's little reason to try saving a few dollars on media which may or may not work.


Yes I am aware the 90MB/s only refers to the READ speed of the cards, not the write speed. I only refer to this number because this is how SDHC cards are colloquially identified.

As for SanDisks, I used a SanDisk Extreme that flashed red while recording, but didn't seem to actually drop frames on playback. It wasn't my card but one of the reasons I posted this is I was hoping someone else had the same issue (from my search, it appears at least one other person on this forum had an issue with the same card), and could format the card using the SD Formatter, to see if this cleared up the issue. I would do it myself but don't have the card in my possession any longer.
Offline
User avatar

AdrianSierkowski

  • Posts: 929
  • Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:59 pm
  • Location: Los Angeles.

Re: A solution for dropping frames on the pocket cam

PostThu Jan 23, 2014 12:57 am

Which extreme? The Extreme Pro 64/95 is the one which is the most used/abused loved. It works for all shooting, whereas some of the other ones, like the Extreme 32/45 won't work at all and the 128/45 only seems to work in raw up to 24fps (though from what I hear all pro res are good).

Also the PNYs BMD had supported were discontinued-- so any of the new ones aren't officially supported. I believe there was a thread on it.
Adrian Sierkowski
Director of Photography
http://www.adriansierkowski.com
adrian@adriansierkowski.com
Offline

Mac Jaeger

  • Posts: 1810
  • Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 2:53 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: A solution for dropping frames on the pocket cam

PostThu Jan 23, 2014 1:16 am

AdrianSierkowski wrote:and the 128/45 only seems to work in raw up to 24fps (though from what I hear all pro res are good).

Carefull, i think you meant the 128/80 ! The 45 mb/s cards don't work for raw, the 80 mb/s are a gamble to use; only the 95 mb/s cards are trustworthy for raw. All of these cards work for ProRes. Talking about the Sandisk Extreme cards of course.
Offline

ssnomar

  • Posts: 60
  • Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:14 am

Re: A solution for dropping frames on the pocket cam

PostThu Jan 23, 2014 1:24 am

AdrianSierkowski wrote:Which extreme? The Extreme Pro 64/95 is the one which is the most used/abused loved. It works for all shooting, whereas some of the other ones, like the Extreme 32/45 won't work at all and the 128/45 only seems to work in raw up to 24fps (though from what I hear all pro res are good).

Also the PNYs BMD had supported were discontinued-- so any of the new ones aren't officially supported. I believe there was a thread on it.


Actually, now that you mention it, I see the card I used WASN'T actually on the list (the 45MB/s 32GB Extreme). Or it was on the list but removed?

I didn't know that PNYs were discontinued... so it appears none of the cards I had that dropped frames were officially approved.
Offline
User avatar

Kofa

  • Posts: 378
  • Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:54 pm
  • Location: Los Angeles

Re: A solution for dropping frames on the pocket cam

PostThu Jan 23, 2014 1:29 am

ssnomar wrote:
misterkofa wrote:This has been discussed several times... over and over and over and over. Using anything other than the approved cards by Blackmagic is a gamble. You may save a few bucks and it may "work" but you're bound to encounter issues.


I AM using a BMD approved SDHC cards. The problem is that the actual cards that BMD SAY will work don't ACTUALLY work, not 100% of the time.

I already returned two PNY cards (though I see the cards have since been removed) and one Delkin Elite 16GB card that were approved by BMD, but still dropped frames. Additionally, I tried a friend's SanDisk Extreme card that flashed red while recording ProRes but didn't actually seem to drop frames when played back on a computer - at least as far as I could tell.

That's why I'm trying to figure out if using an SD Card Formatter will actually make the cards work that BMD themselves say should work.


Where in this list does it state any PNY cards? http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/detail/faqs?sid=27541&pid=34849&os=mac

Sorry, not trying to be rude. It's just been discussed so many times. The Delkins are ok but the Sandisks are tried and true (and they work for RAW shooting).

However, I hope you find the solution you're looking for.


***EDIT: Just also wanted to add why going specifically with the tried and true cards are so important in case someone new stumbles across this thread. It's better to just get the right card (Sandisk) than spare a few bucks.
Is the money saved worth the frustration of having dropped frames, time spent researching why your card isn't working, then having to get the sandisk at the end anyway? Just get the Sandisk 32GB or 64GB Extreme Pro SDHC UHS-I card and you're done. No worries, no dropped frames, no wasted time researching. Even getting a card that matches the data rate as the Sandisk won't do. Just get the Sandisk, lol. When it comes to filmmaking, your media is the LAST place you wanna cut corners. Because if your card can't write properly or fails, you lose everything.
Last edited by Kofa on Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
@misterkofa
junegemini.com
Offline

ssnomar

  • Posts: 60
  • Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:14 am

Re: A solution for dropping frames on the pocket cam

PostThu Jan 23, 2014 1:36 am

misterkofa wrote:
ssnomar wrote:
misterkofa wrote:This has been discussed several times... over and over and over and over. Using anything other than the approved cards by Blackmagic is a gamble. You may save a few bucks and it may "work" but you're bound to encounter issues.


I AM using a BMD approved SDHC cards. The problem is that the actual cards that BMD SAY will work don't ACTUALLY work, not 100% of the time.

I already returned two PNY cards (though I see the cards have since been removed) and one Delkin Elite 16GB card that were approved by BMD, but still dropped frames. Additionally, I tried a friend's SanDisk Extreme card that flashed red while recording ProRes but didn't actually seem to drop frames when played back on a computer - at least as far as I could tell.

That's why I'm trying to figure out if using an SD Card Formatter will actually make the cards work that BMD themselves say should work.


Where in this list does it state any PNY cards? http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/detail/faqs?sid=27541&pid=34849&os=mac

Sorry, not trying to be rude. It's just been discussed so many times. The Delkins are ok but the Sandisks are tried and true (and they work for RAW shooting).

However, I hope you find the solution you're looking for.


The PNY cards WERE listed at the time of my purchase but I checked again after your earlier comment and saw they were removed. According to a different poster above, apparently they were discontinued.

I used the search function prior to my post and saw at least one other person had problems with a BMD approved SanDisk card, which is why I wondered if the SD Card Formatter would help. Thanks for your reply. After seeing the updated list, I'll probably get a few 64GB SanDisk Extremes (the 45MB/s version) as I just shoot ProRes.
Offline
User avatar

Kofa

  • Posts: 378
  • Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:54 pm
  • Location: Los Angeles

Re: A solution for dropping frames on the pocket cam

PostThu Jan 23, 2014 1:40 am

ssnomar wrote:The PNY cards WERE listed at the time of my purchase but I checked again after your earlier comment and saw they were removed. According to a different poster above, apparently they were discontinued.

I used the search function prior to my post and saw at least one other person had problems with a BMD approved SanDisk card, which is why I wondered if the SD Card Formatter would help. Thanks for your reply. After seeing the updated list, I'll probably get a few 64GB SanDisk Extremes (the 45MB/s version) as I just shoot ProRes.


Well I didnt' know that, my apologies. I only recall the Sandisk being the official card tested and true for both ProRes and RAW.
@misterkofa
junegemini.com
Offline
User avatar

AdrianSierkowski

  • Posts: 929
  • Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:59 pm
  • Location: Los Angeles.

Re: A solution for dropping frames on the pocket cam

PostThu Jan 23, 2014 1:50 am

You're right, 128/80.
The PNY cards on the list were fine, and if you had bought them when the list had first come out, you'd've been golden, but they were discontinued shortly after it and their replacement doesn't have as fast of a write speed, from what I have gathered. There is a whole thread on it which actually had BMD needing to cal up PNY to get the skinny.

In any case, if you want a card which'll work, no matter what, 64/95 Sandisk. I haven't hit any problems with those and they're relatively affordable (though that just may be me remembering how much SxS cards and P2 used to cost...)
Adrian Sierkowski
Director of Photography
http://www.adriansierkowski.com
adrian@adriansierkowski.com
Offline

Peter Kent

  • Posts: 47
  • Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:02 pm

Re: A solution for dropping frames on the pocket cam

PostThu Jan 23, 2014 3:04 am

ssnomar wrote: Thanks for your reply. After seeing the updated list, I'll probably get a few 64GB SanDisk Extremes (the 45MB/s version) as I just shoot ProRes.


I'd be careful there as some people have been reporting dropped frames with the Sandisk Extreme 45MB/s cards in ProRes.

AdrianSierkowski wrote:
The PNY cards on the list were fine, and if you had bought them when the list had first come out, you'd've been golden, but they were discontinued shortly after it and their replacement doesn't have as fast of a write speed, from what I have gathered.


Actually I got one of those PNY cards as soon as they put them on the list, it was already the wrong one, in fact I don't think anyone got the right one. It also doesn't seems to have much to do with the write speed as many tested those cards and got about 60MB/s so it's likely the BmPCC had issues with the controller used in the new ones; Nikon supposedly had similar issues in the past but fixed it with a firmware update. (sorry Adrien, looks like you were right that they're too slow, Blackmagic's speed test had them at 60MB/s but I just found benchmarks of it at 25MB/s) The card PNY sent them was apparently discontinued a while ago but it's model number has been recently resurrected as a $140 32GB Pro-Elite Plus. You can still find what looks like the "discontinued" card on newegg and best buy for $60 but they've labeled it as the Pro-Elite Plus and there's no guarantee they'll send you the right one. BTW a Sandisk Extreme Pro 32GB is currently $60 most places.

I've been doing a lot of research on SD cards for the Pocket, I keep a list on my blog:
http://diffractedmedia.blogspot.com/201 ... cards.html

So far the safest card is (unfortunately) the $120 Sandisk Extreme Pro 64GB card, or the $80 Sandisk Extreme Plus 64GB if you mainly need ProRes.
Last edited by Peter Kent on Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
Offline

Peter Kent

  • Posts: 47
  • Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:02 pm

Re: A solution for dropping frames on the pocket cam

PostThu Jan 23, 2014 3:46 am

ssnomar wrote:I already returned two PNY cards (though I see the cards have since been removed) and one Delkin Elite 16GB card that were approved by BMD, but still dropped frames.


Wow you dropped frames with a 16GB Delkin Eilte? Are you sure it was the "Elite" 633x (I haven't found anybody who bought one) or was it the 600x (most buy this one)? And are you talking about ProRes or Cinema DNG?
Offline

ssnomar

  • Posts: 60
  • Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:14 am

Re: A solution for dropping frames on the pocket cam

PostThu Jan 23, 2014 4:13 am

PeterK wrote:
ssnomar wrote:I already returned two PNY cards (though I see the cards have since been removed) and one Delkin Elite 16GB card that were approved by BMD, but still dropped frames.


Wow you dropped frames with a 16GB Delkin Eilte? Are you sure it was the "Elite" 633x (I haven't found anybody who bought one) or was it the 600x (most buy this one)? And are you talking about ProRes or Cinema DNG?


I didn't realize there were TWO different versions. Upon further research, it appears I bought the 600x (ie 90MB/s, not the 95MB/s that's 633x apparently). And yes, I'm talking about ProRes at 23.98 FPS. Not Cinema DNG.
Offline

ssnomar

  • Posts: 60
  • Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:14 am

Re: A solution for dropping frames on the pocket cam

PostThu Jan 23, 2014 4:17 am

PeterK wrote:
ssnomar wrote: Thanks for your reply. After seeing the updated list, I'll probably get a few 64GB SanDisk Extremes (the 45MB/s version) as I just shoot ProRes.


I'd be careful there as some people have been reporting dropped frames with the Sandisk Extreme 45MB/s cards in ProRes.

AdrianSierkowski wrote:
The PNY cards on the list were fine, and if you had bought them when the list had first come out, you'd've been golden, but they were discontinued shortly after it and their replacement doesn't have as fast of a write speed, from what I have gathered.


Actually I got one of those PNY cards as soon as they put them on the list, it was already the wrong one, in fact I don't think anyone got the right one. It also doesn't seems to have much to do with the write speed as many tested those cards and got about 60MB/s so it's likely the BmPCC had issues with the controller used in the new ones; Nikon supposedly had similar issues in the past but fixed it with a firmware update. The card PNY sent them was apparently discontinued a while ago but it's model number has been recently resurrected as a $140 32GB Pro-Elite Plus. You can still find what looks like the "discontinued" card on newegg and best buy for $60 but they've labeled it as the Pro-Elite Plus and there's no guarantee they'll send you the right one. BTW a Sandisk Extreme Pro 32GB is currently $60 most places.

I've been doing a lot of research on SD cards for the Pocket, I keep a list on my blog:
http://diffractedmedia.blogspot.com/201 ... cards.html

So far the safest card is (unfortunately) the $120 Sandisk Extreme Pro 64GB card, or the $80 Sandisk Extreme Plus 64GB if you mainly need ProRes.


Hey I've actually kept up with your blog. Thanks for your reply.

You're the exact person I directed this post at actually.

When you tested your cards, especially the SanDisk and PNY cards that were previously approved by BMD, did you use the SD Card Formatter to format the cards?

If you still have some cards that should work, but don't, can you test them by formatting them with the utility first? I just wonder if that's why there's been some discrepancy between whether certain SD cards work or don't.
Offline

Peter Kent

  • Posts: 47
  • Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:02 pm

Re: A solution for dropping frames on the pocket cam

PostThu Jan 23, 2014 5:17 am

Yes, I did use the SD card Formatter and I ran the full overwrite 3 times like someone in this forum recommended but they still didn't work :( They dropped frames within 4 seconds on ProRes and about 10 seconds in raw.

They really are the wrong ones, I've also noticed that PNY shares the model number on the package (P-SDH32U1H-GE) with the Pro-Elite series* which PNY only claims 35MB/s write speeds on. Furthermore there is a different model number on the back of the all the actual cards (SU032GCD3H3) which shows up on google as a Toshiba Exceria Type 2 with benchmark tests rating it at 24.58MB/s sequential write**.

*https://www.google.com/search?q=P-SDH32U1H-GE&oq=P-SDH32U1H-GE&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i59l3.1728j0j4&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=119&ie=UTF-8

**http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://viva2ch.net/dcamera/1347683275-0.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsu032gcd3h3%26safe%3Doff%26espv%3D210%26es_sm%3D119
Offline
User avatar

Jamie LeJeune

  • Posts: 1270
  • Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:33 am
  • Location: San Francisco

Re: A solution for dropping frames on the pocket cam

PostSat Feb 15, 2014 1:01 am

My BMPCC was dropping frames recording ProRes at 23.976fps on the BM certified San Disk Extreme Pro cards. Didn't catch it until I was watching the dailies. Shot after shot, completely ruined.
Only solution I could find was to send the damn thing back to Blackmagic. Hate to give it up, but if it can't record ProRes at the slowest frame rate on the fastest certified card, then what choice is there?
www.cinedocs.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4601572/
Offline
User avatar

AdrianSierkowski

  • Posts: 929
  • Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:59 pm
  • Location: Los Angeles.

Re: A solution for dropping frames on the pocket cam

PostSat Feb 15, 2014 1:03 am

Did you format your cards before shooting or just erase them? Just something to keep in mind. Also there are many knock off sandisk cards on the market-- so important to only buy from major dealers.
Adrian Sierkowski
Director of Photography
http://www.adriansierkowski.com
adrian@adriansierkowski.com
Offline

vapourtrail

  • Posts: 27
  • Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:09 am

Re: A solution for dropping frames on the pocket cam

PostSat Feb 15, 2014 5:22 am

Here is the thread regarding the PNY cards. When they were added to the list I bought two of them right away. They dropped frames no matter what formatting I used.

It took BM about a week to figure out that the new cards with the same name were no longer the cards they verified and recommended.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13989
Offline
User avatar

Jamie LeJeune

  • Posts: 1270
  • Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:33 am
  • Location: San Francisco

Re: A solution for dropping frames on the pocket cam

PostMon Mar 10, 2014 11:10 pm

Yes, I did reformat them using Disk Utility before recording. And I bought them new right from B&H. I have to assume they are not selling rebranded fakes....
www.cinedocs.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4601572/
Offline
User avatar

Jamie LeJeune

  • Posts: 1270
  • Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:33 am
  • Location: San Francisco

Re: A solution for dropping frames on the pocket cam

PostWed Apr 02, 2014 8:38 pm

I reformatted to HFS+ using Mac's Disk Utility. As far as I'm aware this is both supported and recommended by BMD. Right?
www.cinedocs.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4601572/

Return to Cinematography

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Andrew Lucas, Brad Hurley, CaptainHook, Google [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, Kim Janson, Snorre Johansen and 33 guests