NAB 2014 bmcc update

can blackmagic design just say that there will be a firmware release... because its gonna break a lot of peoples hearts if theres not... and I hate to say it but everyone is basically wanting this update...

Im with you frank....but they wont say anything to us....and my money is on no update coming....or should i say my money ill spent...

When is nab?


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They won´t update-fix the firmware for bmcc... there must be some kind of issue, because if they could fix it they would have done it a year ago.
There is no reason to delay an update on issues that are burying their public image
they could fix some pocket camera problems.. and they did so in a few weeks
they can not fix bmcc issues.

They won´t update-fix the firmware for bmcc... there must be some kind of issue, because if they could fix it they would have done it a year ago.
There is no reason to delay an update on issues that are burying their public image
they could fix some pocket camera problems.. and they did so in a few weeks
they can not fix bmcc issues.

I think they held back development on the update to build and test the 4k. They have stated a million times there is an update coming. They just don't know when.

They won´t update-fix the firmware for bmcc... there must be some kind of issue, because if they could fix it they would have done it a year ago.
There is no reason to delay an update on issues that are burying their public image
they could fix some pocket camera problems.. and they did so in a few weeks
they can not fix bmcc issues.

I think they held back development on the update to build and test the 4k. They have stated a million times there is an update coming. They just don't know when.

So who knows when? the weatherman?
Sorry but it does not make too much sense.. corporations are predictable.. and they always try to save their reputation.
"they held back development on the update to build and test the 4k."
why?? couldn´t they hire a programmer? Is it not compatible to fix bmcc and build 4k? can´t they do both things at the same time?
You don´t need the NASA team to update the firmware of your own product

Because BMD isn't a gigantic corporation like Sony and Canon. They only have so many engineers to work on stuff. And they sell a lot of products. They've released the pocket, the 4k and a new version of resolve. The updates for the bmcc are next.

Sorry, Joe, but that is an even poorer excuse for no update. They are a small company so instead of completing the 1st camera product they divert resources into developing 2 other products while leaving the 1st unfinished? That sounds like the worst company philosophy I have ever heard. I would dare say it is a scheme of promising a product, then delivering sub-par while trying to distract the customer base with yet another product, all the while telling the consumer of product 1 that there will be some kind of firmware to fix the problems in the unknown future....just hang on and while you wait look at these nice new things....

Maybe that is the reason they are not as big as Sony or Canon....they cannot keep their word AND do not have the business sense to properly engage what resources they have available to solidify their product line. Too bad. I was suckered in by the marketing promises they posed, but now over a year later and losing at least $1k on a price drop, wished I would have put that money into a camera built by sony or canon that would be getting updates and providing what they promise the cam will do.

They might have just bitten off more than they can chew in this industry, and are shamefully trying to move past it....but we should just keep waiting for that firmware.....

Ok well keep whining about the update. I personally don't care. I like the camera as is.

I wouldn't call a 350 person company small. Yes, it's not 1000's, but they have a very limited number of products.

How big (or small) do you have to be to acquire the assets of da Vinci Systems?

BMD isnt that small guys, come on.

Because BMD isn't a gigantic corporation like Sony and Canon. They only have so many engineers to work on stuff. And they sell a lot of products. They've released the pocket, the 4k and a new version of resolve. The updates for the bmcc are next.

Arri isn´t as big as sony or canon.. and their camera works fine
Ferrari is not as big as Ford and their cars do quite well
how much investment on engineers do they need to fix the firmware of a box with a sensor?

Because BMD isn't a gigantic corporation like Sony and Canon. They only have so many engineers to work on stuff. And they sell a lot of products. They've released the pocket, the 4k and a new version of resolve. The updates for the bmcc are next.

Arri isn´t as big as sony or canon.. and their camera works fine
Ferrari is not as big as Ford and their cars do quite well
how much investment on engineers do they need to fix the firmware of a box with a sensor?

My camera works perfectly fine. I've made enough money shooting with it that I have repaid the investment of the camera 10x by now. I am looking forward to a firmware update too but the camera I paid for, I got and I'm 100% satisfied with the workflow.

Because BMD isn't a gigantic corporation like Sony and Canon. They only have so many engineers to work on stuff. And they sell a lot of products. They've released the pocket, the 4k and a new version of resolve. The updates for the bmcc are next.

Arri isn´t as big as sony or canon.. and their camera works fine
Ferrari is not as big as Ford and their cars do quite well
how much investment on engineers do they need to fix the firmware of a box with a sensor?

I should also point out that Ferrari's and Italian cars in general aren't the most reliable cars out there. They are great cars - when they work.

Also, again - difference in markets, Ferrari's exist purely for the driving enjoyment of people who can afford them - and they usually only drive them on special occasions due to their impracticality, and the ruinous cost of parts & maintenance. Fords are daily drivers with a large price range and available to people within a normal income range, and parts come relatively cheap ( highest mileage I've seen on a Ferrari is 45k - compared to a 550,000 mile Crown Victoria taxi cab).

Blackmagic is going aggressively after the DSLR Market (the Under $5000 price range, small form factor, they use the same lenses, require similar accessories, and similar issues) with amazing results. Canon & Panasonic are now having to massively step their game up to compete (hence the $3000 price drop on the C100 & the GH4's 4k).

ARRI's primary market is currently is Rental Houses & people with over $50,000 and are sold in extremely limited quantities.

That being said, A larger market=requires a lot more R&D and time for fixes as if you make a mistake a lot of people will be upset that you didn't fully test the update. Where ARRI has such a small client base that any problem that arises with the hardware is easily solved as you only have a few cameras to fix. Its easier to fix 100 cameras in very few different configurations than it is to fix 1,000 cameras in multiple configurations.

Small company is not an excuse and BM is not small. Company like Kinefinity is not big and they now 4 cameras release since the BMCC, they new camera have compressed raw 4K, 6K, Cineform Raw, Waveform, In camera Lut, they even have anamorphic in-camera de-stretch! I think the kinefinity guy have been reading BM forum and are listening to customers. Now, especially the BMCC has been out for quite some time now. No love has giving to that camera. All I am doing now is waiting for a camera in this price range and I will say goodbye to BM. I have no doubt alot of people will feel the same way.

Small company is not an excuse and BM is not small. Company like Kinefinity is not big and they now 4 cameras release since the BMCC, they new camera have compressed raw 4K, 6K, Cineform Raw, Waveform, In camera Lut, they even have anamorphic in-camera de-stretch! I think the kinefinity guy have been reading BM forum and are listening to customers. Now, especially the BMCC has been out for quite some time now. No love has giving to that camera. All I am doing now is waiting for a camera in this price range and I will say goodbye to BM. I have no doubt alot of people will feel the same way.

My sentiments exactly.

Small company is not an excuse and BM is not small. Company like Kinefinity is not big and they now 4 cameras release since the BMCC, they new camera have compressed raw 4K, 6K, Cineform Raw, Waveform, In camera Lut, they even have anamorphic in-camera de-stretch! I think the kinefinity guy have been reading BM forum and are listening to customers. Now, especially the BMCC has been out for quite some time now. No love has giving to that camera. All I am doing now is waiting for a camera in this price range and I will say goodbye to BM. I have no doubt alot of people will feel the same way.

My sentiments exactly.

I'm with you on that!

Personally I've never seen a Kineraw camera in the wild-- and what I have seen at Cinegear ect, wasn't all that impressive least of all at the prices they're charging.

The nice thing about Arri, by the by, is the worldwide service network. I can count on my hand the number of times I've had a problem with any Arri camera, and each time resulted in a Arri employee on set within an hour or two with a replacement (as happened with one of their wireless focus units, where they drove out to us and gave us a new one). Also don't forget, Arri is the oldest motion picture camera maker around-- and the Alexa is not their first digital camera. They prototyped it with D20 (which showed very similar issues to the 4K) which was not available for sale, then the D21 (which was for sale but never in large volume) and showed some of the same issues you'd see on a pocket or a 2.5K only then to release the Alexa family. All of this was probably around 6+ years or so-- with the D20 coming out in 2005.

BMD did say there are cool things coming for the BMCC so I assume that hasn't changed. Maybe they're waiting for NAB. Not sure. I can definitely understand the frustration. Maybe they're working on firmware plus whatever camera(s) they're bringing out this year, if any.

The Kineraw cameras look pretty awesome. I'd definitely love to shoot with one. One thing, and I'm not sure that it's because I'm in North America, but I've never seen or heard of anyone owning one or even using one. As far as I know, they don't have a NA reseller so that could be a big part of it.

I saw one @ Cinegear last year. You couldn't touch it, and the images looked a lot like an "M" sensor.

Small company is not an excuse and BM is not small. Company like Kinefinity is not big and they now 4 cameras release since the BMCC, they new camera have compressed raw 4K, 6K, Cineform Raw, Waveform, In camera Lut, they even have anamorphic in-camera de-stretch! I think the kinefinity guy have been reading BM forum and are listening to customers. Now, especially the BMCC has been out for quite some time now. No love has giving to that camera. All I am doing now is waiting for a camera in this price range and I will say goodbye to BM. I have no doubt alot of people will feel the same way.

From the reports out there on the web Kinefinity cameras seem to have a bunch of problems of their own plus quite some design issues (because at it's core it's basically an embedded linux with a sensor). Stuff like 15fps monitoring etc. doesn't sound too encouraging.
I remember at least two reviews who exactly summarized it to that: Kinefinity tries to cramp too much functionality/options into the camera instead of focusing on the most important basic parts... personally I prefer the BM approach to that..

Small company is not an excuse and BM is not small. Company like Kinefinity is not big and they now 4 cameras release since the BMCC, they new camera have compressed raw 4K, 6K, Cineform Raw, Waveform, In camera Lut, they even have anamorphic in-camera de-stretch! I think the kinefinity guy have been reading BM forum and are listening to customers. Now, especially the BMCC has been out for quite some time now. No love has giving to that camera. All I am doing now is waiting for a camera in this price range and I will say goodbye to BM. I have no doubt alot of people will feel the same way.

GH4? Same price. Big Company that does what they promise (even though BMD didn't promise anything but a firmware update, not all of this other gack people are asking for).

Why aren't you guys moving to a GH4? (I know why)

And Kinefinity... really? I thought we moved beyond being impressed by numbers on paper a long time ago? Good luck using one of those.

Hey Kholi,

I don't know much about the Kinfinity cameras. Im not doubting you, but rather asking for information. Are they hard to use? What can you tell us about the downside of those cameras?

When is nab?


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April 5th - exhibition starts on the 7th.

http://nabshow.com/

Shawn

Why aren't you guys moving to a GH4? (I know why)

dropped coin on the cam+external piece combo pre order - LOVING what I am seeing from it (still in beta firmware no less)
that little camera is gonna eat its class up for lunch (and you know why)

And yeah, we know panny likes the idea of support..hell, I remember when Jan Crittenden would reply to pm's back in the day...

You're loving what you're seeing, but the Gh4's putting out a 2010 image. That's good for some, but the reason why people aren't jumping ship is just that...

BMD's overall image, despite the flaws and annoyances.

If any of the other camera manufacturers were putting out that image, BMD wouldn't have anything.

Nobody's doing it, not Canon's C100/C300, Not Sony's FS100 or FS700 (although RAW's looking a little better0, certainly nothing Panasonic's got right now and GH4 with an external recorder won't be it.

When a company matches the image under 10K, that's when there's an alternative.

youve seen the uncompressed 10 bit 4k from the gh4?

an image from 2010? in what way?

Either way, time will tell, and soon...

And Kinefinity... really? I thought we moved beyond being impressed by numbers on paper a long time ago? Good luck using one of those.

What is the story with Kinefinity? I went to their site and you have to log in to find out the pricing and it appears you can shop for them, but can they actually deliver? It looked to me to be a very fancy graphical wish-list.

I was also amazed at the fact that so many features were add-on accessories.

outside of strange color, crazy rolling shutter, they don't have a US distro.

I don't expect to see any of these new cameras floating around, either. =T

youve seen the uncompressed 10 bit 4k from the gh4?

an image from 2010? in what way?

Either way, time will tell, and soon...

FYI, I told a lot of you what the GH4 was months before it was released, including the YAGH.

Some people don't listen. =P But some of us see things a lot earlier than others.

GH4 is solid, and we can talk all day about how cameras cut together, ANYTHING cuts together, that doesn't matter.

The base image is not comparable to BMD overall, it just isn't. It looks like what we've grown to know as a DSLR image, through and through. But, hey, image isn't everything when it comes to cameras. It is for me, but not for everyone else, and all of the other things matter to some people. All good.

I should also point out that Ferrari's and Italian cars in general aren't the most reliable cars out there. They are great cars - when they work.

That is not true since the late 90's... Most of the cars you see by the side of the road are recent Mercedez and Bmw's...

base image..but the camera is more than that. and is capable of more than that
and I know all sorts of people who see things before others do which is why i said (and you know why)..

this will all be academic soon.

thanks for your feedback though

base image..but the camera is more than that. and is capable of more than that
and I know all sorts of people who see things before others do which is why i said (and you know why)..

this will all be academic soon.

thanks for your feedback though

For me, the image is all that matters. I can work around the shortcmoings of ergonomics, etc., but the camera's image is its image through post. You can tell a RED from Alexa shoot, you can tell DSLR from BMD.

Noone sees the camera, they only see the footage.

Just me, though.

all good man!

I'm looking forward to firmware updates but you all people are forgetting what you paid for. My BMCC cost me $1999 and still I can't believe the amazing image quality and Resolve too....it is insane....

Probably I spent another $3000 with my old Nikon primes and zooms, rigs, mini converter, pelican case etc.....

I'm happy. Do I want more? Of course... we always want more, but remember what you paid.

I'm looking forward to firmware updates but you all people are forgetting what you paid for. My BMCC cost me $1999 and still I can't believe the amazing image quality and Resolve too....it is insane....

Probably I spent another $3000 with my old Nikon primes and zooms, rigs, mini converter, pelican case etc.....

I'm happy. Do I want more? Of course... we always want more, but remember what you paid.

I agree. I don't really need more. I've paid for the camera 20 times by now with all the happy customers I've served. I don't get why people bitch and moan so much about updates.

I don't understand why some people on here are so content with never getting any updates. Saying that the camera has made back what it's worth 10x by now means nothing. The person behind the camera is what is making the money. Would you go out and shoot a feature over a year for $4000 and say well great I've made my money back now? Of course not, what this really means is you've worked for a year for $4000, so judging a camera by how much money you have made from using it is completely pointless.

The updates are required to make the person operating the cameras life easier, it's as simple as that. There is no excuse for the lack of updates to a companies product no matter what the size of the company. Even if they did have an excuse why don't we even get to hear it? All it would take is a post in this forum saying 'Hey guys, these are the problems we are running into...'. It's good business to keep the customer informed and up to date.

That's just my opinion

Im not sure people are in the "I dont want an upgrade" or "Im REALLY mad and want an upgrade NOW" camps.

I think most of us want the upgrade, even agree that its necessary and kinda overdue BUT are being polite, waiting for NAB, and generally trusting that BM will deliver what they said they would, which is updates to fix this stuff, and "some cool things"

So yeah, we mostly all agree an update is necessary, we're just trying to be polite and not too aggressive about asking. That's really what divides the camps in my opinion.

I'm seriously considering KinerawMini or KinerawMax as my next camera because their cameras is hardware upgradeable like Red. I'm not sure how much feature you can add on BMD cameras with firmware and if this is indeed more or less what their cameras is capable of now bar minor tweaks.

I'm looking forward to firmware updates but you all people are forgetting what you paid for. My BMCC cost me $1999 and still I can't believe the amazing image quality and Resolve too....it is insane....

Probably I spent another $3000 with my old Nikon primes and zooms, rigs, mini converter, pelican case etc.....

I'm happy. Do I want more? Of course... we always want more, but remember what you paid.

I remember what i paid...$1000.00 more than u....and i still have a cam with hampered audio and inaccurate color.

I'm looking forward to firmware updates but you all people are forgetting what you paid for. My BMCC cost me $1999 and still I can't believe the amazing image quality and Resolve too....it is insane....

Probably I spent another $3000 with my old Nikon primes and zooms, rigs, mini converter, pelican case etc.....

I'm happy. Do I want more? Of course... we always want more, but remember what you paid.

I agree. I don't really need more. I've paid for the camera 20 times by now with all the happy customers I've served. I don't get why people bitch and moan so much about updates.

Because some people expect to get what they were promised and what they paid for.

Yes, you don't need to post the same thing in multiple threads to get the point across. Anyway, I looked at their web site and I can't see anywhere you can buy them.

KINERAW KINEMINI 4K PREORDER in hdvideoshop

Yes, you don't need to post the same thing in multiple threads to get the point across. Anyway, I looked at their web site and I can't see anywhere you can buy them.

That was the only time I mentioned anything on here about KinerawMini and KinerawMax. Weird how you associated me with multiple threads about Kinefinity cameras

Im not sure people are in the "I dont want an upgrade" or "Im REALLY mad and want an upgrade NOW" camps.

I think most of us want the upgrade, even agree that its necessary and kinda overdue BUT are being polite, waiting for NAB, and generally trusting that BM will deliver what they said they would, which is updates to fix this stuff, and "some cool things"

So yeah, we mostly all agree an update is necessary, we're just trying to be polite and not too aggressive about asking. That's really what divides the camps in my opinion.

Kyle, I wouldn't have a problem if there are no updates at all - I just want to know so I can act accordingly. ATM I am on hold because of BMDs promises to solve some of the problems bothering me, but I won't wait forever. I'd wish that BMD just tells us honestly what can be fixed and improved and what not. Then I can go an and make business decisions.

I am planning to sell my camera if in the next quarter nothing happens on the firmware front. Since I got my BMCC in Feb 2013, I have waited over a year patiently for any updates.
I understand that not everyone is concerned about bugfixes and new features, because if you can work with the camera as it is, than it is a great tool. Unfortunately in my situation I am not always the person who does the post. Some of my clients just want me for doing the shooting and deliver the footage to them. For those cases I would really love to have less troubles with the audio and REC709.
And when there is stress on set, I just want to keep my head free for more important things than to calculate the storage space left on the SSD.

Just out of curiosity, why not formulate a LUT @ home and shoot the footage through that before delivering to clients? That's what I often do when I have one which I know is going to live in REC and also doesn't want to do the whole raw dance.

Just out of curiosity, why not formulate a LUT @ home and shoot the footage through that before delivering to clients? That's what I often do when I have one which I know is going to live in REC and also doesn't want to do the whole raw dance.

2 reasons:

1) Most of the time I have to hand over the files directly, so doing a little post with it is not an option
2) My workflow is PC, so I cannot deliver ProRes when pushing a LUT to the footage. I use Cineform, but that is not always an option for clients.

I would really, really love the option the cook up my own LUTs and use those in camera instead of REC709. Would be so great and much more flexible in my use cases.

Ahh gotcha. Makes sense.

Kyle, I wouldn't have a problem if there are no updates at all - I just want to know so I can act accordingly. ATM I am on hold because of BMDs promises to solve some of the problems bothering me, but I won't wait forever. I'd wish that BMD just tells us honestly what can be fixed and improved and what not. Then I can go an and make business decisions.

I am planning to sell my camera if in the next quarter nothing happens on the firmware front. Since I got my BMCC in Feb 2013, I have waited over a year patiently for any updates.
I understand that not everyone is concerned about bugfixes and new features, because if you can work with the camera as it is, than it is a great tool. Unfortunately in my situation I am not always the person who does the post. Some of my clients just want me for doing the shooting and deliver the footage to them. For those cases I would really love to have less troubles with the audio and REC709.
And when there is stress on set, I just want to keep my head free for more important things than to calculate the storage space left on the SSD.

Yeah, that is totally reasonable.

I think we all agree more than it seems. I think we all know that there are a few issues that need fixing, and most would like to see a few features added, although you correctly differentiate between the fixes and new features. I agree that the former is critical while the latter would be nice, but not promised.

I also agree that the communication has been awful. I wonder if the fact that we all get so upset is part of why they are reluctant to say ANYTHING until they know with certainty what will and won't work.

I wonder if we were all more forgiving and understanding, if they mightn't communicate more with us?

Anyway, NAB is coming, and I hope/expect some information on the firmware. I agree if not, it's going to change a LOT of minds, including those who have not been loud or "angry" about it so far.

We'll know soon enough I guess.

I would really, really love the option the cook up my own LUTs and use those in camera instead of REC709. Would be so great and much more flexible in my use cases.

Totally agree!

From BMD i'l just looking for an 3-4k pocket with global shutter, thats all I want. All other things doesn't make so much sense for me.

I wonder if we were all more forgiving and understanding, if they mightn't communicate more with us?

Definitely yes. I wouldn't mind if they tell us: "this and that is not possible, we tried, but can't fix it". At least I wouldn't have to ride on the pony of hope anymore.

I totally understand, that some things can't be improved, changed, fixed - as long as it is communicated by BMD. But just saying "wait, we are working on something but have no idea if and when it will be done and can't tell you on what we are working" - this just feels like someone tries to let me not go although the relationship has been broken.