Macdrive and PC's

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Jim Froom

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Macdrive and PC's

PostTue Aug 28, 2012 8:11 pm

Just read the manual and am all set for my camera with the exception of needing to purchase and install macdrive on my PC.

Seems straightforward enough, except I have 1 question and 1 comment for Blackmagic.

question. I use 3-4 different computers when I'm shooting depending what and where. Do I need a copy of macdrive on each computer to read the and transfer the files from the SSD onto my PC or is it just needed to format the SSD? If it's needed to read files on each PC, do I have to frigggin buy 4 copies at around $240?

Comment. I have sold and used BM products for years and think BM is a great company. However, I'd like you work a little harder on us PC users. Include formatting software with the camera. Paying $59 or $69 dollars just rubs me the wrong way. Also, come up with a PCI_e card for our PC's with thunderbolt on them for at least our workstations.

This was suggestion not a complaint. Looking forward to getting the camera.
Jim Froom
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Kevin Thompson

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostWed Aug 29, 2012 12:21 am

@Jfro.

I have MacDrive (I use with Shuttle and Studio) .. you can activate and deactivate on as many machines as you like. Caveat, MacDrive will only work on one machine at a time
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Eric Santiago

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostWed Aug 29, 2012 3:14 am

MacDrive is cheap and very robust.
Its a good trade considering a PC workstation is almost more than half the cost of a Mac.
So anything under $100 shouldnt really break most professionals out there.
Crap I just spent another $100 on GoPro gear alone ;)
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Michael Phillips

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostWed Aug 29, 2012 3:17 pm

I wonder if exFAT is being considered and whether it's fast enough to record in real time. I use exFAT all the time to transfer between my Macs and PCs in the studio as it is native to both operating systems and does not have the file size limitation of FAT32.

Michael
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Jim Froom

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostThu Aug 30, 2012 1:20 pm

Good to know it can activated and reactivated on different machines. However, I ran into that with Cineform and it doesn't work in the field. I quit using it and I also quit suggesting to others. Too many things on the checklist to know what programs are activated on what machines.

If I buy 2 copies, it's not going to break the bank. However, it gets under my skin a bit, that the world is made up of MAC and PC users in the film industry, but this camera is MAC centric and they only tell how to format the disks on the PC. Seems they could have done a license to include the needed software.

Like I said, looking forward to the camera, but the PC formatting doesn't make me feel real appreciated as a customer.
Jim Froom
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Remco Hekker

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostThu Aug 30, 2012 2:24 pm

Hé Everyone,

This might be a bit late.
But I much prefer Paragon HFS+ on my PC.
It is zo much lighter. Only costs $20,- and is really stable/fast
http://www.paragon-software.com/home/hfs-windows/

But to each, there own.
MacDrive works as well.
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bhook

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostThu Aug 30, 2012 2:49 pm

Does Paragon format?
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Remco Hekker

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostThu Aug 30, 2012 4:39 pm

I'm pretty sure it does.

I'll dubble check in the morning.

Regards,

Remco
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Noel Sterrett

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostThu Aug 30, 2012 11:59 pm

Here's what happens to Windows Explorer 10 out of 10 times when I right click MacDrive (the program recommended by Blackmagic for Windows users).

I have tried several versions of MacDrive, and all, including the latest, are unstable. And an unstable file management program is, for me at least, completely unacceptable.

Cheers.
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Remco Hekker

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostFri Aug 31, 2012 6:44 pm

He everyone.

My apologies. It seems Paragon HFS+ doesn't format.
I remember it working fine a couple of months ago when I was using
the Hyperdeck Shuttle a lot. Maybe I've been just deleting the files
instead of formatting the SSD's (I know. a BIG no no :oops: )

It works great for any MAC/PC workflow where you don't have to format on the PC.

P.S. I would like to support the first posters statements
jfro wrote: I have sold and used BM products for years and think BM is a great company. However, I'd like you work a little harder on us PC users.


and especially:
jfro wrote:This was suggestion not a complaint. Looking forward to getting the camera.
System:
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (10.0, Build 17763)
Gigabyte Technology Co. Z390 DESIGNARE.
Intel Core i9-9900K @3.6GHz
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Joshua Helling

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostMon Sep 10, 2012 9:46 pm

MichaelP wrote:I wonder if exFAT is being considered and whether it's fast enough to record in real time. I use exFAT all the time to transfer between my Macs and PCs in the studio as it is native to both operating systems and does not have the file size limitation of FAT32.

Michael


This was announced for the Hyperdeck line at IBC last week. So we will be updating those so that you can use exFAT (as it works natively on both operating systems)
Joshua Helling

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bhook

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostTue Sep 11, 2012 12:47 am

I think many of us are wondering about BMCs?
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WTWall

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostTue Sep 11, 2012 2:25 am

TO BMD Team: Another request for a PC compatible disk format ASAP. Do you have a planned release date for the upgrade to Hyperdeck Shuttle?

exFAT is OK, but it's frankly not the best choice. NTFS is THE standard (has been for years), it's incredibly robust, and should just be an option. No more hassles for PC users. NTFS can be handled by any Unix/Linux distro. What's the big deal? (Other than just being Mac centric?)
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Joshua Helling

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostTue Sep 11, 2012 8:34 pm

exFAT is natively supported on both PC and Mac. So from a hassle standpoint either NTFS would not be as good, as it is not supported on Mac.
Joshua Helling

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sean mclennan

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostTue Sep 11, 2012 10:16 pm

So is exFat something that might become available for the BMCC via firmware update in the future?

sean
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Jay Bloomfield

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostThu Sep 13, 2012 2:57 am

Here's what happens to Windows Explorer 10 out of 10 times when I right click MacDrive (the program recommended by Blackmagic for Windows users).

I have tried several versions of MacDrive, and all, including the latest, are unstable. And an unstable file management program is, for me at least, completely unacceptable.

Cheers.
There were a small number of users of MacDrive 9 who had this right-click problem. It has been corrected in MacDrive 9.03.
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Noel Sterrett

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostThu Sep 13, 2012 11:38 am

Jay Bloomfield wrote:
Here's what happens to Windows Explorer 10 out of 10 times when I right click MacDrive (the program recommended by Blackmagic for Windows users).

I have tried several versions of MacDrive, and all, including the latest, are unstable. And an unstable file management program is, for me at least, completely unacceptable.

Cheers.
There were a small number of users of MacDrive 9 who had this right-click problem. It has been corrected in MacDrive 9.03.


I'm sorry, but the problem has not been corrected. The crash I posted earlier was from the latest version (9.03.35).

Cheers.
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WTWall

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostThu Sep 13, 2012 7:27 pm

Joshua Helling wrote:exFAT is natively supported on both PC and Mac. So from a hassle standpoint either NTFS would not be as good, as it is not supported on Mac.


Thanks for the reply, Joshua. I realize that exFAT is the least hassle, but my suggestion was that having a simple option in Hyperdeck setup that would allow NTFS should also be very easy to provide, and give all the advantages of NTFS to PC users.

But my real reason for the post: Do you have a release date for when exFAT will be available for Hyperdeck Shuttle, presumably as an update? Thanks.
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Noel Sterrett

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostWed Oct 03, 2012 7:21 pm

The new firmware for HyperDeck is available (3.5) and it supports exFAT.

I've just tried it and it works! It's also a bit faster on Windows with exFAT. So no more buggy Macdrive. :)

I can't imagine the disk routines for the camera are that different from the HyperDeck, so exFAT on the BMCC can't be that far behind (fingers crossed).

Thanks to all at Blackmagic.

Cheers.
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Shawn Miller

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostWed Oct 03, 2012 9:22 pm

Noel Sterrett wrote:The new firmware for HyperDeck is available (3.5) and it supports exFAT.

I've just tried it and it works! It's also a bit faster on Windows with exFAT. So no more buggy Macdrive. :)

I can't imagine the disk routines for the camera are that different from the HyperDeck, so exFAT on the BMCC can't be that far behind (fingers crossed).

Thanks to all at Blackmagic.

Cheers.



That is fantastic news! I have Mac Drive installed on three machines, and the right-click crash issue exists on all installations. It will greatly enjoy using the HyperDeck Shuttle without having to use Mac Drive in conjuction.

Shawn
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Jason Greene

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostWed Oct 03, 2012 9:56 pm

Remco wrote:He everyone.
My apologies. It seems Paragon HFS+ doesn't format.
I remember it working fine a couple of months ago when I was using
the Hyperdeck Shuttle a lot. Maybe I've been just deleting the files
instead of formatting the SSD's (I know. a BIG no no :oops: )


Thank you for this information. It sounds like we could use Macdrive to format an SSD and then Paragon to read/access/delete the files? Or, are we supposed to format the every time?

As a PC user and someone who has pre-ordered the BMCC, I too will add my voice here. It would be nice to have more cross-platform support rather than less. A firmware upgrade to allow formatting the drive or deleting files would be welcome.

matthijsliethof

Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostTue Oct 23, 2012 11:40 am

So does this mean currently you can't edit from the SSD on a PC because of the diskformatting?
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Jim Froom

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostSat Nov 03, 2012 5:32 pm

Having been reading about Macdrive for the last few weeks, I'm a little concerned. It gets a fair amount of complaints and the one that concerns me the most is when reading from a PC and having the Mac formatted drive gets corrupted.

I can imagine being on a shoot and not being able to read the drive and not knowing if it's corrupted once mounted on the PC. Or coming back from a shoot and having 1 or more of the media get corrupted. Little disconcerting.......

Any body have long time experience using Macdrive with BM products.
Jim Froom
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John Tissavary

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostMon Nov 05, 2012 11:27 pm

If you can find installation for Macdrive 8 I can highly recommend it. I've been using it for years without any of the crap that I keep hearing about Macdrive 9. Seems like they really screwed up their last release...

JT
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Frank Glencairn

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostTue Nov 06, 2012 8:27 am

I just run into dropped frames for the first time.
Turned out, that just dumping and deleting the files works only for a while.
To be on the safe side, you want to format the SSD every time after dumping.

I wonder if it makes any difference if you (like me) format via MacDrive, or do the same on a real Mac.
Not sure if MacDrive is able to do all that cleaning up ((TRIM and Garbage Collection) the right way.

Need to look deeper into that and really hope that ExFAT is coming soon.

Frank
http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

I told you so :-)
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Andrew Deme

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostTue Nov 06, 2012 8:57 am

Frank Glencairn wrote:I just run into dropped frames for the first time.
Turned out, that just dumping and deleting the files works only for a while.
To be on the safe side, you want to format the SSD every time after dumping.

I wonder if it makes any difference if you (like me) format via MacDrive, or do the same on a real Mac.
Not sure if MacDrive is able to do all that cleaning up ((TRIM and Garbage Collection) the right way.

Need to look deeper into that and really hope that ExFAT is coming soon.

Frank


This is a feature of Flash Memory :-

" Loss of performance

When a file is deleted from your computer the operating system marks that page as available; however the actual SSD controller is never notified. Therefore, when writing more data to the drive, if all the other pages are full, the SSD controller copies that block to the SSD’s cache, erases the entire block, rewrites the pages that are to be kept, and then writes the new data in the newly erased pages. This results in performance degradation when the drive becomes filled."

Tried and true method with Flash Memory is to dump the data and then format before using again.....been that way since the dawn of Flash Memory.

matthijsliethof

Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostTue Nov 06, 2012 12:36 pm

So is this one of the reasons (the block erasure part on limitations of NAND Flash memory) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory

that, currently, firmware isn't supporting removal of clips in the camera?

Really hope this isn't going to dictate on the possible outcome on that much wanted feature.
Since not being able to delete a clip on the job / during a shoot (without a computer) is very crippling I think.

The only work around would be to either bring a laptop or spend loads on more SSD disks (which I frankly don't have the money for)
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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostTue Nov 06, 2012 12:56 pm

Granted I haven't had the pleasure of actually using a BMC but unless I'm missing something, you don't have any way to know how much capacity is left on an SSD you've been recording to, right? It's a total crap shoot as to when the SSD fills, right? You're going to need lots of SSDs to be safe, right?

matthijsliethof

Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostTue Nov 06, 2012 1:04 pm

mhood wrote:Granted I haven't had the pleasure of actually using a BMC but unless I'm missing something, you don't have any way to know how much capacity is left on an SSD you've been recording to, right? It's a total crap shoot as to when the SSD fills, right? You're going to need lots of SSDs to be safe, right?


I believe you're right. :cry: Seeing how much you can still shoot and delete what you have shot would make the camera a lot better to use.

Sure Arri and Red can't delete (from what i've read on this forum) but if you can afford a camera like that I think buying a lot of storage isn't that hard either.

So I'm guessing it's a feature for those (including myself) who aren't on the biggest budget, and are already forking out a lot of the cash they have just for the camera itself.
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Frank Glencairn

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostTue Nov 06, 2012 2:13 pm

Yup, dumping on set is absolute necessary (or a load of SSDs). But since it is just file copying and no huge CPU load, any low buck cheap laptop (or used Mac Mini - if you want to go there as a PC guy) will do the trick. Just make sure you have USB3 ports and drives/docking station, or it will take forever.

But it also depends on your shooting style - for narrative, this is not a problem, for docu work it could become one.

Frank
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I told you so :-)
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Noel Sterrett

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostTue Nov 06, 2012 2:17 pm

MatthijsLiethof wrote:Sure Arri and Red can't delete (from what i've read on this forum) but if you can afford a camera like that I think buying a lot of storage isn't that hard either.

Both Arri and Red format media in the camera. Most others have long allowed clips/pictures to be deleted as well.

At a very minimum, the BM camera should be able to format it's own media.

Cheers.
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matthijsliethof

Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostTue Nov 06, 2012 2:22 pm

Frank Glencairn wrote:But it also depends on your shooting style - for narrative, this is not a problem, for docu work it could become one.

Frank


I'm guessing there are more situations in which not having a delete feature and a way to gauge remaining recording time are (or could quickly become) problematic, than there are situations in which it's no problem. By the way, just read all of your black magic camera related blog posts and that was worth my time :)

Noel Sterrett wrote:Both Arri and Red format media in the camera. Most others have long allowed clips/pictures to be deleted as well.

At a very minimum, the BM camera should be able to format it's own media.

Cheers.


Guess I should have done my homework better :lol:

And thanks, I've learned something: that it's not technically impossible because of NAND limitations.
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arknox

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostTue Nov 20, 2012 4:38 pm

Have just been considering the data wrangling requirements for the BMC, looking into USB3 vs esata etc and find this Macdrive nonsense quite alarming. I do heavy work in post, 3D max, compositing and need very high end specs of computer to do this so am a PC user. I'm not willing to consider Apple when I can build the same spec of PC for a lot less cost. How can this camera be using a format that is not readable by a PC, and not only that but there are no solid 3rd party options out there that reliably work 100% of the time?

With Macdrive there seems to be a lot of reports of instability and crashing, with danger of corrupt files. I'm sorry but that's not something I'm willing to risk on productions costing around 20K. Surely it's a simple thing to add the option to select what file system you want in camera and then format the disk in camera with that file system. Please can this be addressed?
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Frank Glencairn

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Re: Macdrive and PC's

PostTue Nov 20, 2012 8:30 pm

Yeah, I really hope ExFat get's implemented soon.
http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

I told you so :-)

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