Choosing the right shotgun microphone

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Ash Sumpter

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Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostWed Nov 30, 2016 9:05 pm

Hello there comunity !
I know this is bit out of Blackmagic products, but since this forum is a bunch of well-experienced (indie) filmmakers I would love to hear your opinion.
I am considering to buy shotgun microphone Audio-Technica AT897. I have read lots of good reviews on it and since I'm really on budget I need "lots of great music for less money" (in this case sound :) )
Have any of you experience with this mic ? I was considering even Sennheiser MKE600, any thoughts on it too ?

And some suggestions what should be the great combo with this mic ? My observations were done on this higher-level field recorders Tascam DR-60D MK II or Tascam DR-70D. Have anyone experience with one of those pieces ?

Thanks !

King Regards from Slovakia,
Ash.
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Tristan Pemberton

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostWed Nov 30, 2016 9:17 pm

What is your budget?

I'd seriously consider the Rode shotgun mics - very good value for money. The build quality is great and is backed by a 10 year warranty.
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Ash Sumpter

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostWed Nov 30, 2016 9:32 pm

well, I have read that Rode NTG-3 is king but is at this moment out of my budget... and on Rode NTG-2 I have read only bad review from professionals - mainly because of bigger echo in interiors in comparison to the other shotgun microphones - and that would do to my film lot of harm cause its mainly interior film...
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostWed Nov 30, 2016 11:45 pm

Ash, a shotgun microphone is never the best choice for interior recordings. The side slots can pick up some serious echoes. Since directionality varies with frequency, the timbre of the echoes changes before it reaches the mic element. The result can be an unnatural hollowness to the voice.

Better use a hypercardioid mic.

You might find this helpful:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/au ... ne-roundup
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Denny Smith

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostThu Dec 01, 2016 2:45 am

I second Robert's recommendation.
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Ash Sumpter

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostThu Dec 01, 2016 2:23 pm

but not all the scenes will be in interiors, there would be some even outside shooting, something like tracking shots... so I would need more flexible, universal mic, possible to record also ambient sound or making foley work afterwards, not only mic for dialogues shooting inside... I know that professionals probably use for each type of recording different types of microphones but some of us, deep indie filmmakers, need to find more flexibly mic....
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rick.lang

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostThu Dec 01, 2016 4:20 pm

I have the Sennheiser MKH416 and I believe it came with documentation showing a sensitivity curve with weighting to the front, but it can pickup audio from the back and side. Not sure if it's considered super/hypercardioid or not but the response curves should also be on their website. The lens isn't marketed by Sennheiser as it has been replaced by newer MKH mics. That means you may get it for a good deal. Still agree that other mics would be better for narrative interior work.


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Denny Smith

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostThu Dec 01, 2016 7:44 pm

You are right Rick, the Senn mic you have is a super/hypercardioid. I use the ME66 setup for general shooting (mic on camera or on a boom pole), but can switch the shotgun element to a hypercardiod element or a lav, when shooting in indoor or interview situations.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostThu Dec 01, 2016 7:59 pm

Rick, the MKH416 is a shotgun mic. For low frequencies it has a hypercardioid pattern, but not for frequencies above 2kHz. The MKH416 and the Rode NTG3 are very, very similar and sound almost identical. Both are not good with echoes.

They would be excellent for interior interviews when the mic can be in the framing. But when shooting a film that is not an option, as you can't get the mic close enough to reject the echo poison.

Ash, you might have a look at the Sennheiser K6 system.
The K6 is the powering module and can be combined with different mic capsules with different characteristics.
It is a good starting point for indies - we used it for our first feature film in 2004.
K6 + ME66 gives a good combo for interior, for outside use K6 + ME67

The K6+ME66 bundle saves even more money.

The ME66 won't be as good as the expensive hypercardiods, but it is much, much better than a NTG1/2
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Denny Smith

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostThu Dec 01, 2016 8:40 pm

You are correct Robert, my bad, :roll: the ME 66 is a Super-cardioid/Lobar mic. The MKH416 is a low, Mid: Hypercardioid Above 2 kHz: Lobar pattern. I have the ME66/K6 combo and also the ME62 head, which is a Omnidirectional pick-up pattern, with minimal inherent self-noise, and excellent rejection of rumble, wind and handling noise. This is a small mic, even when connected to the K6, and is easily concealed. The Lav head can be hidden under the talents clothing, but the new wireless lab systems are even better for this, especially when more than one person is involved.
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rick.lang

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostThu Dec 01, 2016 9:52 pm

Thanks for the advice, Robert.


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Benton Collins

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostFri Dec 02, 2016 12:22 am

I had previously used a ME66 for interior work before I knew better. I now use a Audix SCX1-HC Hypercardioid, what an amazing difference! No more room echo and much better vocal tone! For exterior work that demands better than what the ME66 can provide, I use the MKH416 which is much better than the ME66.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostFri Dec 02, 2016 7:40 pm

Benton Collins wrote:I had previously used a ME66 for interior work before I knew better. I now use a Audix SCX1-HC Hypercardioid, what an amazing difference! No more room echo and much better vocal tone! For exterior work that demands better than what the ME66 can provide, I use the MKH416 which is much better than the ME66.

I agree Benton. But Ash said he has not the budget for a NTG3 and as the Audix is in the same price range, the Audix won't do it too.
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Eli hershko

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostFri Dec 02, 2016 7:55 pm

What about Oktava MK 012 with different modules?
I have the rode NTG3 and the Oktava MK with 3 different modules and I tend to shoot indoor with the Oktava
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Benton Collins

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostFri Dec 02, 2016 10:33 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:
Benton Collins wrote:I had previously used a ME66 for interior work before I knew better. I now use a Audix SCX1-HC Hypercardioid, what an amazing difference! No more room echo and much better vocal tone! For exterior work that demands better than what the ME66 can provide, I use the MKH416 which is much better than the ME66.

I agree Benton. But Ash said he has not the budget for a NTG3 and as the Audix is in the same price range, the Audix won't do it too.


Robert, the NTG3 is $200 more than the Audix SCX1-HC. When you're shopping below $1,000, I'm not sure if that places those two mikes in the same price range. But yes, it's still double the price of the Audio-Technica AT897, but when you start looking at the Sennheiser MKE600 at $330 that Ash also mentioned, you're now creeping toward the price of the Audix at $499. At around $300, I've read that the Oktava MK-012 hypercardioid is a great bang for the buck provided you get a good copy, as I've read that the quality control can be a little uneven. But whatever he chooses, the main takeaway is don't use a shotgun for interior work.
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Tristan Pemberton

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostFri Dec 02, 2016 11:28 pm

Benton Collins wrote:But whatever he chooses, the main takeaway is don't use a shotgun for interior work.

Sorry Benton, but I've got to qualify here. This statement, and those that have stated this previously in this thread, is simply wrong. To say you can't use shotgun mics for interior work, simply isn't true.

Sure, there are situations where a shotgun won't capture what you need at an interior location, but there are many situations where it's the ONLY mic that will capture what you need. It really comes down to the type of situation and/or location. What is/are the sound source/s? What is the ambient noise? etc etc

For example, in much of the documentary work I do (mostly corporate events) I'm expected to capture live conversations (fly on the wall style), picking one person at a time who may talking in group of 5, 10 or even 20 people. And that may be in a room full of 100+ people. The boom operator has to see a monitor of my shot so he know's who I'm pointing at. The longer & tighter the shotgun pattern, the better.

In fact, in 90% of the documentary work I do, a shotgun is the best mic for isolating a person speaking (impromptu) when surrounded by other ambient noise; an office, a factory, a server room, workshop etc, regardless of whether it's interior or exterior.

If it's a controlled situation, such as an interview where I can 'set up' the person speaking, of course there are better mic choices, getting it closer - a lapel, a hand held etc - but to to say don't use a shotgun mic for interior work is misleading at best.
Last edited by Tristan Pemberton on Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostSat Dec 03, 2016 12:28 am

Yes, there is always an exception to the rules. I have effectively used shotguns on a sound stage and TV Studio, but those are controlled situations, with "dead" ceilings. But for Doc work, Tristan makes a good point, and for this type of situation, a boomed shotgun, which has the backside of the mic pointing basically up, will work fine, unless the ceiling is real low, or close to the mic. On the K6 system, a ME 62 and the ME 64 short shotgun, can be effective in interior situations.
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Benton Collins

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostSat Dec 03, 2016 5:47 am

Tristan Pemberton wrote:If it's a controlled situation, such as an interview where I can 'set up' the person speaking, of course there are better mic choices, getting it closer - a lapel, a hand held etc - but to to say don't use a shotgun mic for interior work is misleading at best.
Point well taken Tristan, I stand corrected. I mainly do controlled setups primarily for interviews, so my perspective is rather limited. I can totally see your point in run and gun and doc style situations when "reach" and simply capturing the voice of a more distant target is paramount. The Audix SCX1 HC I use will simply run out of effective reach long before a shotgun would. But in it's domain of 3 to 5 feet from the subject, I don't think a shotgun could do as good indoors. In my experience at least.
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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostSat Dec 03, 2016 6:34 pm

I own a MKE600 and it's a great step up from the sub-$200 microphones and it gives recordings that professional sound. BUT, indoors it's not perfect at rejecting ambient noise (outdoors, it's stellar).

If you're looking for budget alternatives, I would suggest the $29 Audio Technica wired lavs AT3350 which work well taped under clothing and as lapel microphones as long as you get them up by the first button of the subject's shirt...but they do have annoyingly long cables (wind the cables on christmas ribbon spools for storage).
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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostSun Dec 04, 2016 8:02 am

Wow! Quite educative. But, having said all that, what is a good "longer and tighter" shotgun. Maybe Tristan will be nice enough to share the mic he uses to pick up someone in a crowded scene. I guess my ME66/K6 won't cut it. Thanks.
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Erik Wittbusch

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostSun Dec 04, 2016 9:38 am

FYI:

I use the ME66 outdoors and the ME64 as indoor microphone.

Both are far from being the best option, but are good value for the money. They share the same K6 micro base as the system is modular.

For HiQ recordings I love the Schoeps CCM series. The most natural sounding mics out there, but quite pricey!
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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostSun Dec 04, 2016 10:00 am

I've owned the 66, 67, 416 and used the ntg 2, 3, and MKE600.

The 416 is THE short shotgun that all others have been and will be compared to, my untrained ear can't tell the difference between this mic and the NTG 3.

The 66 & 67 are bright/crispy/sibilant compared to the 416/NTG 3 but not terrible.

The MKE600 sounds like a 416 at 18" and a 66 at 36". The proximity effect is very strong and at different distances make it sound like two completely different mics. I would avoid it.

The NTG 2 is probably the best value proposition.

Using a shotgun is all about technique. I've used them indoors (many times) with success but it's not a one technique fits all situation. If you have low ceilings you may have to boom straight on or from below. The biggest problem with shotguns indoors is that they have a rear pickup that will catch reflected sound, you need to be aware of the front and the back of the microphone.

Hypers can be much less forgiving of poor technique because of their lack of reach. If I was going to own one mic it would be the 416 or the NTG 3. The Sennheiser will retain resale value, the NTG 3 is cheaper but you'll lose more on resale.

Good luck.
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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostSun Dec 04, 2016 10:08 am

Hi Ash,
I've used the AT897 for a long time now with the tashan dr 60d mkii and it gives great results outdoors and i've managed to get away with it indoors too for a number of narrative films, but it does suffer abit (due to pickup pattern) when using it indoors unless it's a controlled environment.

To throw another mic into the mix, I've heard good results from the ntg4+ which is quite cheap.
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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostSun Dec 04, 2016 12:11 pm

Art Roberts wrote:Maybe Tristan will be nice enough to share the mic he uses to pick up someone in a crowded scene. I guess my ME66/K6 won't cut it. Thanks.

Hey Art, the shotgun I currently use a Rode NTG-3. As Howard has described, this is is Rode's answer to the venerable 416. It's not as good, but pretty close at roughly half the price. With a 10 year warranty! I also have a ME66, but rarely use it these days, except as an audience ambiance/applause mic.

I would have to agree with Howard - the NTG-2 is probably the vest value proposition. I can be used in a variety of situations, is built well and is terrifically affordable for what it is. I know people that have been using one for nearly ten years without a problem.

But to be perfectly frank, unless a whole film is shot in the same location, it's unlikely one mic will provide everything you need for a narrative feature film. Or doco for that matter. Even in the one location you'll probably want a couple of mics to help with the mix. Besides, so much of the sound magic happens in post anyway.

That said, one of my favourite films, Bad Boy Bubby (dir. Rolf De Heer) was recorded using two lapel mics (with transmitters stripped down) installed in the protagonist's hair for a stereo POV. As the protagonist turns his head, so too does the sound change. It's about trying different things to see what works for you.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostSun Dec 04, 2016 3:34 pm

Benton Collins wrote:Robert, the NTG3 is $200 more than the Audix SCX1-HC. When you're shopping below $1,000, I'm not sure if that places those two mikes in the same price range.


Benton, that would be correct when buying in the USA (e.g. from B&H). But Ash is in the EU and here the prices are different.

The Rode NTG3 costs € 529,- without VAT, the Audix SCX1-HC costs € 503,- without VAT.

And the Sennheiser ME66+K6 is much cheaper than in the USA: € 293,- without VAT vs $ 460,- at B&H.
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Benton Collins

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostMon Dec 05, 2016 1:02 am

Robert Niessner wrote:
Benton Collins wrote:Robert, the NTG3 is $200 more than the Audix SCX1-HC. When you're shopping below $1,000, I'm not sure if that places those two mikes in the same price range.


Benton, that would be correct when buying in the USA (e.g. from B&H). But Ash is in the EU and here the prices are different.

The Rode NTG3 costs € 529,- without VAT, the Audix SCX1-HC costs € 503,- without VAT.

And the Sennheiser ME66+K6 is much cheaper than in the USA: € 293,- without VAT vs $ 460,- at B&H.

Robert, I totally ignored Ash's location! Of course you are right and I stand corrected again! I'm not scoring to high on this post! Lol!
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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostMon Dec 05, 2016 1:13 am

Breton, me either, but no one is keeping score, I hope :roll:
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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostMon Dec 05, 2016 7:59 am

Hey guys,

I haven't been posting on this board for ages, and only logged in to say how happy I am to bump into this discussion, thanks for everyone who contributed, especially Robert Niessner. Many halpful suggestions here.

I had a Rode NTG3 for ages and been struggling with echoes whenever I used it indoors. I have an Audio Technica wireless lav system that has been excellent but you don't have the chance all the time to rig that up to the talent.
I am not really the audio guy but many times I had to pretend to be one (ehh..) and after I read the suggestions on using hypercardioids I bought a second hand Oktava mk-012 on Ebay, can't wait to try this next to the Rode, see how it performs.

So thanks again everybody, I was glad to learn something new!
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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostThu Dec 08, 2016 6:25 pm

The Oktava has quite a low output so needs good preamps. It also is apparently very prone to handling noise so needs special care on a boom. I haven't noticed this yet but my experience of booming mine is very limited but I took the handling noise warnings to heart when I used it. I am a novice when it comes to booming.
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Ash Sumpter

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostFri Dec 09, 2016 1:54 pm

thank you all guys for advices,

is there anyone who has been working with Sennheiser MKE600 ? what's your opinion on that ?
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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostTue Jan 31, 2023 3:38 pm

I ordered the Audio-Technica AT897 to record/Stream my church Services from 5-20 feet away.
I will be using it with a ATEM Extreme.
If the quality or output is to low I will try the Sennheiser MKE600 next.
Both are way above my budget, but I need better sound on YouTube than I am getting and have been unsuccessful at taping the Churh's sound system.
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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostMon Feb 06, 2023 6:07 am

I will be returning the Audio-technica
Without Phantom Power or a amplifier the sound level is to low.
I had the ATEM Extreme turned up all the way which caused noise I did not like.
Also, you have to remove the battery after each use to avoid running it down.
My 4 on-camera and direct input Azden SMX-10 mics are still the best I have used.
Perhaps the Sennheiser MKE600 will be better.

In the mean time, I will try tapping the Church Sound Mixer speaker feed for my YouTube LiveStream of our Services. The headset output caused buzzing/humming weather I set the ATEM to mic or line.
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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostMon Feb 06, 2023 7:35 am

RRRoger wrote:I will be returning the Audio-technica
Without Phantom Power or a amplifier the sound level is to low.
I had the ATEM Extreme turned up all the way which caused noise I did not like.
Also, you have to remove the battery after each use to avoid running it down.
My 4 on-camera and direct input Azden SMX-10 mics are still the best I have used.
Perhaps the Sennheiser MKE600 will be better.

In the mean time, I will try tapping the Church Sound Mixer speaker feed for my YouTube LiveStream of our Services. The headset output caused buzzing/humming weather I set the ATEM to mic or line.

Both the AT 897 and MKE600 microphones are professional balanced -4 dB level devices, not -10 dB level consumer ones. There is an impedence mismatch. They are designed to output a sine wave with + and - voltages on the 3 pins. You are only using the + side of the wave.

One way to deal with it is to add a Tascam DR-60D MkII recorder/mixer that accepts a stereo pair of xlr mics and can send a mixed stereo line output to the ATEM. The unbalanced 3.5mm stereo input on the ATEM works better with an external preamp from a mixer. The DR-60D uses good quality Class A discrete circuits for the xlr preamps. It also has potentiometers that can be used to ride the gain during recording as well as dual 3.5mm stereo outputs, one with adjustable gain to match any camera. It can also accept a unbalanced 3.5mm line in from a mixer to record in 4 tracks to an SD card.

A Sound Devices MixPre series recorder would be a higher quality alternative with time code and HDMI triggering at a higher cost.

eMilty wrote:

"These are two balanced audio outputs (for left and right) and are not really suitable to go straight into the ATEM Mini. The ATEM Mini has a 1/8" mini jack that is unbalanced. Although it's possible to connect them directly you will need the proper cable for it. Most likely you will need to make it yourself.

Better is to use a balanced to unbalanced converter. These are available as passive boxes that don't require any power. All they are is usually just a high quality 1:1 transformer properly wired. Often they can be used in both directions. Personally I like the Radial StageBug SB-6 which can do this but there are many different brands that have similar devices."

Re: Super Low Audio Levels - ATEM Mini Extreme ISO

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=166695

The headphone output also would have an impedance mismatch and probably would have scratchy pops and clicks along with a very limited volume adjustment. The speaker output might work with some kind of an old school low fi equalizer-booster for a cars 4 ohm radio speaker outputs to get to 10K ohm line level, but a mixer with line level outputs is preferred.

Running the high voltages from the speaker output of the church''s mixer to the line level input of the ATEM would probably damage it.
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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostTue Feb 07, 2023 1:17 am

I have the ATEM mini Extreme (not the ISO model). It has a video recorder built in that I rarely use.
I am streaming the Church Services to YouTube.

Your post is very discouraging. Are you saying the MKE600 I ordered will also give me much lower volume than my Azden SMX-10 mics? It is already way over budget without a pre-amp.
Perhaps, I could use two of my four Azden mics, one for Right and one for Left for better sound?

You got me worried about the line voltage from the Church's Sound Mixer to speaker outlets.
I will check it with a meter.
Why can't I get the adjustable volume Headset outlet to work? I have tried setting the ATEM to line and mic with a very loud hum and no usable sound.
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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostTue Feb 07, 2023 11:10 am

For outdoors use I can recommend Sennheiser MKH416 100%, also I have heard good things about MKE600. I also have ME66 as on camera mic for reference audio but it is also a good choice for booming.
For indoor definitely go for Hypercardioid or Supercardioid small diaphragm condenser´s.
P.s. Both setups I use along with Lavs to have more control of vocals, not a must but really nice option.
As mixer/recorder I would rather if you can go for Sound Devices MixPre or Zoom F series.
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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostTue Feb 07, 2023 3:59 pm

Next Sunday, I am going to try this: blucoil Audio Technica AT2020 Cardioid Condenser Microphone for Vocals, Musical Instruments, & Home Studio Recording Bundle Portable USB Audio Interface for Windows & Mac, and 10' XLR Cable
If it does not work out, I will get a preamp with 48V Phantom power for the MKE 600 I ordered.
I do not need or want another recorder.
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dondidnod

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostTue Feb 07, 2023 8:28 pm

I tried using the headphone output of an AT2020+ USB mic, after powering it using a laptop computer. I recorded to my Tascam DR-60D using a channel of the unbalanced 3.5mm line in. I got a signal but it was unusable. Fortunately I had also taken the 3.5mm mono output of a Crown Sound Grabber II pressure zone mic placed on the table through a custom connector to record on the other 3.5mm channel to the DR-60D. Don't just plug a preamp boosted mic with a mono 3.5mm plug into a stereo 3.5mm jack, or the shorting of a channel could damage your recording device. It came out fine, and had an advantage that it did not over record, since it was recording excited air molecules within an air gap. It also did not record room reverberations, and had a sterile sound, but very articulate. The vibrations from the large table it was on provided good bass response.

Blucoil says:
"The interface also has dual 1/4" TRS main outputs for studio monitors connection."

Maybe that will work if it's an unbalanced consumer level output. The fact that it is TRS concerns me though. It might be -4 dBV balanced output, the ¼" equivalent of a professional XLR connector.

Ideally the output impedance of a device should be one tenth the input impedance of the device you plug it into for the best sound.

A refurbished Golden Age Pre73 Jr. preamp can be bought for under $200 USD. The line output from it could be run through one Aphex 124 like this:

"The balanced XLR inputs have an impedance of 100K ohm. .. The IHF unbalanced -10 dBV rca line outputs have a 150 ohm impedance."

Aphex Model 124A Two Channel Audio Level Interface for Hi-Fi and pro Audio Gear. $79.00 USD

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165884426834?m ... media=COPY

The Aphex interface should work if your blucoil preamp output is balanced -4 dBV. Since it is USB powered, it probably doesn't have enough headroom to get good results from a vocal music performance.

A Tascam DR-60D with a USB power bank and 3.5mm stereo cable would be cheaper and more portable. You don't have to record with it, although it does offer dual recording of 2 tracks at a lower gain in case the pastor gets excited and over records causing clipping. I have used it with modified Golden Age Pre73 MkIII class A preamps with the DR-60D volume low, for a vintage Neve 1073 mixer sound that I like, since I could overdrive it and listen to the vintage 70s color of those Carnhill output transformers.

For Sunday, your Azden SMX-10 mics are your best bet. It would be louder than the MKE600.

I like using my MKE600 on my BMPCC 4K, as it is sensitive enough for the cameras preamp. It is the best supercardioid mic in it's price class.
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Iain Bason

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostWed Feb 08, 2023 12:08 am

RRRoger wrote:I have the ATEM mini Extreme (not the ISO model). It has a video recorder built in that I rarely use.
I am streaming the Church Services to YouTube.

Your post is very discouraging. Are you saying the MKE600 I ordered will also give me much lower volume than my Azden SMX-10 mics? It is already way over budget without a pre-amp.
Perhaps, I could use two of my four Azden mics, one for Right and one for Left for better sound?

You got me worried about the line voltage from the Church's Sound Mixer to speaker outlets.
I will check it with a meter.
Why can't I get the adjustable volume Headset outlet to work? I have tried setting the ATEM to line and mic with a very loud hum and no usable sound.


The best audio would probably be a balanced line level output from the mixer (although of course the ATEM doesn't have a balanced input, so you'd need to convert it). The best microphone in the world on the camera is not going to be as good as a microphone that's right in front of whoever is speaking.

That said, you ought to be able to get the headphone output from the mixer to work, as long as it's actually monitoring the right thing. I would be leery of doing this mostly because it's too easy to accidentally mess up what the mixer is sending to the headphone output. It is designed for the operator to be able to monitor the audio at various stages along the pipeline, anything from an individual input pre-fader to the output mix. It's also easy for the operator to accidentally change the level.

As for the speaker outputs, directly from the mixer they ought to be line level, which would be fine. But you certainly don't want to take the amplified signal that is being sent to the speakers. Also, you'd need to split the signal, which may degrade the quality. The mixer ought to have other outputs that you could use instead of the speaker outputs. It's a matter of setting up the mixer so that the signal is routed appropriately.

In short, it would really help if you could find someone who is familiar with how your mixer is set up. It shouldn't be difficult for someone with a modicum of audio experience to configure everything correctly so that you get a good feed.
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David Chai

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostWed Feb 08, 2023 2:01 pm

I have a Sennheiser MKE66 for sit down interviews. It's decent for indoors interviews, just get it close to the mouth with a mic stand. But for a run and gun on camera shotgun, I use a Feelworld FM8, which is similar to the Movo VXR10. Cheap compact and surprising great sounding for its price.
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RRRoger

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostTue Feb 21, 2023 4:42 am

I used my new Sennheiser MKE600 (with battery) Sunday and it works really well.
For once, many mics later, the rich, full sound matched what I was hearing live.
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robert Hart

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostTue Feb 21, 2023 5:15 am

This comment is slightly off-topic but might be relevant.

Some years ago, I read an account of highly directional microphones like the Sennheiser 416 and Sony C74 being functional as omni-directional when mounted on a stand and pointed directly downward to a polished planar surface like heavy tile or thick glass about 300mm broad.

The distance between the tip of the microphone and the hard surface was critical and the sweet spot found only by careful monitoring. Apparently it had something to do with the cone shape of the rear lobe pickup patterns being omni-directional.

I understand that the principle is the similar to pressure zone microphones and that its main purpose was to provide ambience from the entire area of a sports ground during a match.

There you go. Some useless information for you.
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RRRoger

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostTue Feb 21, 2023 2:16 pm

Thanks for the replies.
I am wondering if there is information somewhere showing the actual width of various microphone pick up areas. >
A little circle in the back and large in front does not mean much to me.
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rick.lang

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostTue Feb 21, 2023 3:13 pm

robert Hart wrote:… Some years ago, I read an account of highly directional microphones like the Sennheiser 416 and Sony C74 being functional as omni-directional when mounted on a stand and pointed directly downward to a polished planar surface like heavy tile or thick glass about 300mm broad.

The distance between the tip of the microphone and the hard surface was critical and the sweet spot found only by careful monitoring. Apparently it had something to do with the cone shape of the rear lobe pickup patterns being omni-directional.

I understand that the principle is the similar to pressure zone microphones and that its main purpose was to provide ambience from the entire area of a sports ground during a match...


When I’m shooting in a theatre, I use the Sennheiser 416 MKH U48 to pickup ambient sound (from the audience) as well as act as a shotgun to the stage. Works well in support of the other mics that do not pickup ambient sound. Using a 12” bathroom tile to reflect omnidireccional ambient sounds is some kind of witchcraft.
Rick Lang
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robert Hart

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostTue Feb 21, 2023 6:29 pm

QUOTE: "A little circle in the back and large in front does not mean much to me."

Imagine the microphone being pointed directly north and your viewpoint is from directly above. The circles (lobes) represent the directions it "hears" best, strongest from north-west to north-east with a another weaker area between south-west and south-east.

The more directional the microphone is, the pointier those lobes will be.

Some diagrams show several pickup patterns for low, midrange and higher frequencies.
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Howard Roll

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostTue Feb 21, 2023 7:30 pm

The frequency response pattern for Sennheiser mics is available on the website. The rear pickup of the 416 is only about 6-12 db less sensitive than the front in the 200-2k vocal range which is why the 416 is not a great indoor mic.

Good Luck
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Jukka Tallinen

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostTue Mar 07, 2023 8:40 pm

Theres no one-mic-fits-all-situations, but for me the Sanken CS-M1 gets pretty close.

Great mic overall, I couldn't be happier. In my kit the CS-M1 replaced a collection of mics from Rode, Sennheiser and Oktava.

Small profile and very light at 55g, beautiful sound on both male and female voices, unobtrusive, ideal for boom pole or on-camera mounting, rugged, moisture resistant, great off axis rejection regarding the size, low self noise, no switches or dials (simplicity!), the list goes on.

A thread worth reading:
https://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/top ... -new-mike/
www.jukkatallinen.com
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Frank Engel

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostMon Mar 20, 2023 9:11 am

RRRoger wrote:Perhaps, I could use two of my four Azden mics, one for Right and one for Left for better sound?


That is unlikely to give you better sound. You should really be focused on getting a good signal from the mixer (or upgrading the mixer if necessary to one that you can get a good signal from).


Why can't I get the adjustable volume Headset outlet to work? I have tried setting the ATEM to line and mic with a very loud hum and no usable sound.


As partially explained above, the headphone output on a mixer is usually used for monitoring by the sound engineer. In some mixers nothing is sent to the headphone output unless the engineer specifically asks for it - it will be silent until something is soloed on the mixer and then get only that one sound. Sometimes the main mix can optionally be sent to the headphones when nothing is soloed, but it is really not the best output to try to hijack a signal from for a purpose other than intended.
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RRRoger

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostTue Mar 21, 2023 1:17 pm

Thanks Frank,

I have pretty much given up on using the sound room mixer for now and instead am using the two ATEM inputs for Microphones.

Turns out the Azden's are Stereo (I split them right and left) and not so directional but still useful to mount on each of my three spread out cameras to mute the in camera mic and also pickup local sound when needed.

The Mono/Directional Sennheiser MKE 600 is working best to pick up voices, especially the Pastor's Sermon.

I may want to add another mic that is best for music?
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rick.lang

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Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostTue Mar 21, 2023 7:14 pm

I use a pair of Line Audio Design’s CM-4 XLR mics purchased through a Canadian distributor; here is the manufacturer’s web link:
http://www.lineaudio.se/CM4.html

I used this on a music video and for voice or music recorded on the MixPre-6 II.

There are several other options if you can’t source these.
Rick Lang
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Bart de Graaf

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Re: Choosing the right shotgun microphone

PostWed Mar 22, 2023 8:19 am

We are using the DPA 4017B now for a while in combination with a mixpre 6II.
It is a really, really nice mic.
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