4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

Thanks, Robert. Glad to have my URSA Mini 4.6K PL mount with 5" LCD monitor, but surprised if no new machines will be made.


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Rick,

I just read your post carefully. The email B&H sent was for the large URSA, not the 4.6K URSA mini. I have no idea what the status of the 4.6K URSA mini (non pro version) is. Sorry for the confusion. B&H was sending a notice out for the large URSA 4.6k PL mount which was information we already had, but not officially.

Thanks, Robert.


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B&H seems to be right with that statement. I've just checked several German vendors:
MBF has listed only the Mini Pro:
http://www.mbfshop.de/de/video/kamera/b ... ic-design/

Teltec has no UM46k EF listed anymore:
https://www.teltec.de/camcorder-digital-cine-cam/

I have to say that this really freaks me out a bit because it's just been a bit over half a year since I got the camera (after waiting for it forever) and now it is suddenly discontinued. Doesn't feel like a solid investment...

14 months from the first production URSA Mini 4.6K shipments until no longer available. Not long for a cinema camera. At least the camera works better than it did when first shipped and should continue to work well for many years.

I'm hoping that the imminent release of firmware 4.4 shows some love for the UM46 cameras and others and is not dedicated to the UMP46 camera. But after that, anyone's guess. I know other cameras continued to receive firmware upgrades for years so that pattern likely will continue.


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Rick, Gene (and B&H notice)!was referring to the big Ursa 4K and 4.6K (which was never produced), Not the Ursa Mini 4K and 4.6K (non Pro models), all of which are still being made and in stock at B&H. The Pro us just the ENG version, flagship model. The Cine versions are still available.

The Min Pro is referenced as the replacement for the Ursa, due to the interchangeable lens mount, comes closest to the Ursa in that respect, but not the only choice available with a Ursa Mini.
Cheers

Okay, thanks, Denny. I was thinking Robert Niessner's post implied no more UM46K, but now somewhat relieved. I understand from BMD's comments that the 4.6K turret replacement just wasn't performing to the levels BMD required on the URSA, but I don't think BMD has commented if they also had a problem with the 4Kv2 turret upgrade that others have indicated they wanted if available. That may again fall victim to the perceived numbers of BM4Kv2 upgrades that might not justify the costs involved.

I can understand how difficult this is for those early adopters that totally love the small crew workflow that the URSA supports better than any other camera. Even the monster 10" LCD screen that faced initial industry derision grew on people that actually used it. Three operators without a rat's nest of cables and gear. The concept and execution is golden but will it ever be repeated?


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So BM dropped the Ursa due to low demand. If BM perceives that demand for the turret upgrade will be low as well, maybe they will never ship a turret upgrade? I could see that it might be easier for them to just sell Ursa owners a UMP at a reduced price than design, build, ship and maintain a new turret.

It would be a question of does BM want to devote resources to a retired product or would they rather spend them on the next generation products.

I think the answer is pretty clear.

+1 can't wait to see the URSA turret let alone an URSA II. But either way, there should be an upgrade program for those who don't want to downgrade to upgrade to URSA Mini Pro.

I can understand how difficult this is for those early adopters that totally love the small crew workflow that the URSA supports better than any other camera. Even the monster 10" LCD screen that faced initial industry derision grew on people that actually used it. Three operators without a rat's nest of cables and gear. The concept and execution is golden but will it ever be repeated?

Thanks for your post robertmanningjr. I’m glad Dan could give you a run down on where we are at and your post gives what looks like a good transcription of the situation I know Dan wanted to explain.

Dan's sentiments in the phone conversation he had with Robert are the same as ours in the camera team. It has been a frustrating project and we apologize for the delay. We understand your frustration and we certainly are listening.  We understand how removing the URSA/Turrets from the web page created a new vacuum where we needed to get some more information for you.

It was a mistake taking the pages on the website down for URSA without explaining why and we are working on rectifying that.

We are hoping to have some good news for you soon, but as I said in my previous post at the start of March, we can't give you a timeline as it is not until we are happy with the results we are getting that we can move forward. Even then there will some work to do to bring the Turret up to being ready for production.

So in the mean time we wanted to put the URSA Mini Pro promotion out there for URSA customers who have waited so long for us to get this done. While it doesn’t neatly package everything up that everyone wanted out of an URSA 4.6k it does give URSA customers that sensor and the ability to step into the latest Blackmagic Design camera and technology at a pretty amazing price.

Hey Tim,
Any news with the development of the turret?
Ta.

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[Tim Schumann]

Not at this stage. We will let you know when we have an update.

Not at this stage. We will let you know when we have an update.

OK thanks for the reply. Ta

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How long is the Ursa to Ursa mini pro upgrade offer good for?
and is the price still at the original discounted price?

For Tim Schumann.


In regard the big URSA, I have been seeing mixed messages. Your AU reseller to whom I am referred when I send a discreet technical email message, suggests the big URSA is EOL and recommends a shift to the URSA Mini Pro.

Yet your recent post on June 9 seems to indicate that the big URSA is not EOL and that a 4.6K version is still in the works.

Can you clarify if the big URSA is permanently EOL or just suspended until the 4.6K issue can be sorted. Will we never see its configuration ever again?

The reason for my query is that I have been contemplating a focal reducer mod for the 4K URSA with a Metabones 0.71 optical cell and a remade intermediate adaptor in place of the existing piece and carrying a Nikon F-Mount ( and maybe a compact PL-Mount ).

So far as I have examined, it is a workable option for a Nikon F-Moun. It would be a lot more easily executed than for the RED DSMC camera family because a threaded mounting option already exists within the big URSA turret body.

A generous cylindrical workspace within the optical path through the turret exists compared with the apparently more confined throat of the RED DSMC camera family.

I would become a little wan and depressed if I undergo a big torment custom-building a focal reducer insert with modified intermediate adaptor/mount and am just finishing it with a big smug smile of achievement on my face, as a 4.6K turret is released.

If you would prefer to discuss technically, this topic discreetly to avoid publishing an email address here and being swamped, please let me know if it is possible to do this via a facebook private message.

There is a sale on Blackmagic Video Assist and Blackmagic Video Assist 4K. Black Magic does not put anything on sale unless it is going to be discontinued and they come out with a new Video assist that is either bigger and better or is more versatile discrediting the need for two video assists.

I can tell you that right now I am not going to buy into that URSA Mini Pro nonsense and neither video assist.

I am still waiting for a true solution for URSA Major Owners which involves the URSA major with an updated sensor plan or a updated URSA Major II free upgrade

I am wondering if this is just another way to get us URSA owners to switch to Ursa Mini pro and possibly they come out with a new Video assist that appeals more to URSA Major owners to get them to switch.

Black Magic does not put anything on sale unless it is going to be discontinued

Not true.

The pocket cinema camera once went on sale for nearly half it's normal price about a year after it's launch. Many people kicked themselves for NOT getting it at the cheaper price because they thought it signaled a replacement or new camera.

JB

Black Magic does not put anything on sale unless it is going to be discontinued

Not true.

The pocket cinema camera once went on sale for nearly half it's normal price about a year after it's launch. Many people kicked themselves for NOT getting it at the cheaper price because they thought it signaled a replacement or new camera.

JB

I'm one of those people. I still use and love using my PCC. I wish I had bought another at the reduced price.

I am not saying it is 100 percent accurate but usually sales indicate or signal a major shift.

4K Production Cinema Camera did go on sale shortly before the URSA 4K V1 was revealed. Also 4K 6G switcher went on sale shortly before 4K 12G switchers were revealed.

It is not like this can be avoided there will always be something new but Intel has a tick tock cadence which historically has been true. Sales are Black Magics Tick Tock cadence in many cases but not all.

The Video Assist models have been on sale before as well.

I have sent my complaint to the consumer protection agency in my state (NY). I suggest, if we, actual URSA owners, are to be taken seriously, we need to all send a complaint to our state agencies. You can do it online. The consumer protection agency will take action if enough people complain.

I have been patient, I have been proactive, and blackmagicdesign has sold a product with an advertised spec that doesn't exist.

I have sent my complaint to the consumer protection agency in my state (NY). I suggest, if we, actual URSA owners, are to be taken seriously, we need to all send a complaint to our state agencies. You can do it online. The consumer protection agency will take action if enough people complain.

I have been patient, I have been proactive, and blackmagicdesign has sold a product with an advertised spec that doesn't exist.

Robert, Have you heard something we haven't as it was you instigating the info about them trying to get the sensor working with a 3/4 month turn around.

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I have sent my complaint to the consumer protection agency in my state (NY). I suggest, if we, actual URSA owners, are to be taken seriously, we need to all send a complaint to our state agencies. You can do it online. The consumer protection agency will take action if enough people complain.

I have been patient, I have been proactive, and blackmagicdesign has sold a product with an advertised spec that doesn't exist.

Robert, Have you heard something we haven't as it was you instigating the info about them trying to get the sensor working with a 3/4 month turn around.

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I haven't heard a thing which is why I sent in the complaint. Since we were supposed to hear something at the beginning of the month, I don't think we should expect any comment from Blackmagicdesign. Again, the phone conversation I had with them was hopeful and promising, but ultimately the decision is in the hands of the CEO. I will keep you informed if I hear anything. If you stop hearing from me, it's because they have kicked me off the forum so please keep that in mind. You can always contact me by googling my name.

I have sent my complaint to the consumer protection agency in my state (NY). I suggest, if we, actual URSA owners, are to be taken seriously, we need to all send a complaint to our state agencies. You can do it online. The consumer protection agency will take action if enough people complain.

I have been patient, I have been proactive, and blackmagicdesign has sold a product with an advertised spec that doesn't exist.

Robert, Have you heard something we haven't as it was you instigating the info about them trying to get the sensor working with a 3/4 month turn around.

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I haven't heard a thing which is why I sent in the complaint. Since we were supposed to hear something at the beginning of the month, I don't think we should expect any comment from Blackmagicdesign. Again, the phone conversation I had with them was hopeful and promising, but ultimately the decision is in the hands of the CEO. I will keep you informed if I hear anything. If you stop hearing from me, it's because they have kicked me off the forum so please keep that in mind. You can always contact me by googling my name.

From what I read we didn't get a eta for the turret...just work in progress. I'd give bmd a bit longer, as they must've gone though a few sensors already and have got to be close to perfecting it.

Don't think you will get kicked off the forum what ever happens.

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We have to be realistic at this point. The turret was announced as finished, working, and shipping soon at NAB 2015!! I was told we would get an official update at the beginning of this month which is two years later. There was no official announcement or update. That is showing a lack of good faith. I support everyone in whatever decision they make with regard to moving toward compensation from Blackmagicdesign, but please be realistic. I like Blackmagicdesign and I want to believe in them, but we have to be realistic at this point. Aside from a generous phone call conversation with Dan May, we haven't received any OFFICIAL (from the CEO) indication the turret is ever going to happen. If we received an official statement saying they are working on it and asking us to wait a little longer, I could understand patience and understanding. But that hasn't happened. Excuse typos.

To get high frame rates which they said was one of the hiccups they are going to have to overclock the sensor which may also increase the buss speed on the URSA.

What they haven't told us is if the sensor itself or the URSA camera or both are having trouble with high frame rates and increased buss speed.

It would be a much better situation if it was the sensor itself that is having trouble overclocking. If on the other hand they are having trouble getting the URSA to overclock then they have an engineering problem involving a recall from end users.

I wish they could crack the enigma machine. I have not given up hope. Hope shall never die.

[Tim Schumann]

Robert what you are suggesting will not speed up the process.

You have received official word from the president and also on this thread from myself.
We will get you an update ASAP.

Robert what you are suggesting will not speed up the process.

You have received official word from the president and also on this thread from myself.
We will get you an update ASAP.

With all due respect, I am not trying to speed up the process or slow it down. It's been over two years without an update. The lack of the 4.6k turret is literally costing me money. I believe that you and Dan want and need the turret to happen, and that you want the company to give customers an update, but that is obviously not in your control. The update was supposed to happen over a month ago and again, the turret was officially announced years ago. You can't in good conscience expect me or anyone else to sit back and wait. I appreciate you and Dan taking the time to address my/our concerns, but there is a point where a person has to take matters into their own hands. An official word is a public comment from the company, like when the CEO announced the turret publicly in 2015 and it was posted on the Blackmagicdesign website with shipping, not from individual employees.

We were not only promised it would be shipping but that it would be made exclusive to the big URSA customers first. Not to criticize but just sharing the facts here.

Hello everyone, blackmagic design.

As i was very busy runing my bussines, i got to the point where i said to myself: "Ok it`s time for upgrading big URSA". What i realised was a BIG dissapointment. No turret produced what so ever. And more devestating thing is that i am late for Loyalty Deal!!! I have never got any email regarding this offer from reseller or blackmagic, so how could i know about offer? I don`t have time to check forums and read stuff. So, dear blackmagic design, are you punnishing me becouse i was actualy using your product and was busy?

One more crazy thing is, you have droped price for big URSA 4k, and now we can`t sell it for deasent money. Oh my god.

At least you should not stop that offer for us who put trust in you!

Hope for best outcome, and new turret

We were not only promised it would be shipping but that it would be made exclusive to the big URSA customers first. Not to criticize but just sharing the facts here.

Criticism is welcomed. You are absolutely correct.

Robert what you are suggesting will not speed up the process.

You have received official word from the president and also on this thread from myself.
We will get you an update ASAP.

With all due respect, I am not trying to speed up the process or slow it down. It's been over two years without an update. The lack of the 4.6k turret is literally costing me money. I believe that you and Dan want and need the turret to happen, and that you want the company to give customers an update, but that is obviously not in your control. The update was supposed to happen over a month ago and again, the turret was officially announced years ago. You can't in good conscience expect me or anyone else to sit back and wait. I appreciate you and Dan taking the time to address my/our concerns, but there is a point where a person has to take matters into their own hands. An official word is a public comment from the company, like when the CEO announced the turret publicly in 2015 and it was posted on the Blackmagicdesign website with shipping, not from individual employees.

Folks, I got this on my inbox just minutes ago. I think it is very sad and bad practice for BMD to lead customers on believing that something is coming and to be announced (whatever that may be). But the truth lies on that the Turret is DOA. So all this conversations in this thread is either wishful thinking or not worth a penny. I've been very vocal about BMD misrepresentation of the Turret and in many cases, is an act of misleading advertising. But I gave up hope and move on. I'm moving on to a different vendor as the BMD Mini URSA Pro, for me, is not the right product to replace the supposedly big URSA 4.6K. I suggest you move on too.

BHTurret.JPG (70.8 KiB) Viewed 14315 times

I got the same email.

Got the same one at 5:02pm for the PL Mount.

Got this too, but I sold my V1 and trying to make the mini pro work for me. Also bought a shogun flame because the screen was the biggest issue with the mini pro. Now im just hoping BMD will introduce burst modes to the mini pro. But that's nothing they promised so it will probably not happen and i will probably invest into a second camera for slow motion. Well, back to the BIG URSA I still hope they will come out with a turret for they guys I sold the big on too. People still want it.

[Tim Schumann]

This is not the case... it has not been discontinued.

I am working on getting you an update from the top.

Thank you so much Mr. Tim Schumann.

Yes thank you Tim, it seems this comes up ever so often. I'm sure in a few weeks it will happen again. If it does, just scroll up to Tim's response. " It has not been discontinued" I'm using my ursa v1 and i am patiently awaiting the update.

Too late, just sold my ursa. I now wish i had sold it sooner before it wasn't worth anything anymore.

Too late, just sold my ursa. I now wish i had sold it sooner before it wasn't worth anything anymore.

Andrew, Did you take the upgrade option for the mini pro?

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[Tim Schumann]

I am working on getting you an update from the top.

Here is the confirmation that you have been requesting. The product has not been discontinued.

As we have previously mentioned we just haven't been able to get the results out of turret that we were hoping for at the frame rates required which has caused the hold up. We hope to have some good news for you on this soon.

I am working on getting you an update from the top.

Here is the confirmation that you have been requesting. The product has not been discontinued.

As we have previously mentioned we just haven't been able to get the results out of turret that we were hoping for at the frame rates required which has caused the hold up. We hope to have some good news for you on this soon.

From the man himself, Grant Petty - FANTASTIC NEWS! The 'turret' is coming! Official!

I am working on getting you an update from the top.

Here is the confirmation that you have been requesting. The product has not been discontinued.

As we have previously mentioned we just haven't been able to get the results out of turret that we were hoping for at the frame rates required which has caused the hold up. We hope to have some good news for you on this soon.

Thanks for sorting that out Tim Schumann. Made my day. Much love!

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Missed the here hyperlink....

Iain, no one said the turret is coming. What was stated is "The upgradable turret mount for the original URSA camera has been delayed due to technical challenges, so while we continue to work on solving these, we are extending the special offer...". That is a far cry from the turret is coming. They have been working on the technical challenges for years, not months. Challenges that should have been addressed long before selling a camera with an upgradable turret. I appreciate getting a message from the CEO and I need/want the turret to happen as much as the next person, but I'm not doing it with my head in the sand that buys them another two years.

Iain, no one said the turret is coming. What was stated is "The upgradable turret mount for the original URSA camera has been delayed due to technical challenges, so while we continue to work on solving these, we are extending the special offer...". That is a far cry from the turret is coming. They have been working on the technical challenges for years, not months. Challenges that should have been addressed long before selling a camera with an upgradable turret. I appreciate getting a message from the CEO and I need/want the turret to happen as much as the next person, but I'm not doing it with my head in the sand that buys them another two years.

+1. As I said, moving on to another vendor where I will be spending my bleeding $2K I saved for the turret.

Iain, no one said the turret is coming. What was stated is "The upgradable turret mount for the original URSA camera has been delayed due to technical challenges, so while we continue to work on solving these, we are extending the special offer...". That is a far cry from the turret is coming. They have been working on the technical challenges for years, not months. Challenges that should have been addressed long before selling a camera with an upgradable turret. I appreciate getting a message from the CEO and I need/want the turret to happen as much as the next person, but I'm not doing it with my head in the sand that buys them another two years.

I do believe it will come. If they had no intention of delivering on one it would have been easy to have taken this opportunity to just 'pull the plug'. But they have not. They continue to say they are working on it. Why would you do that??

Iain, no one said the turret is coming. What was stated is "The upgradable turret mount for the original URSA camera has been delayed due to technical challenges, so while we continue to work on solving these, we are extending the special offer...". That is a far cry from the turret is coming. They have been working on the technical challenges for years, not months. Challenges that should have been addressed long before selling a camera with an upgradable turret. I appreciate getting a message from the CEO and I need/want the turret to happen as much as the next person, but I'm not doing it with my head in the sand that buys them another two years.

I do believe it will come. If they had no intention of delivering on one it would have been easy to have taken this opportunity to just 'pull the plug'. But they have not. They continue to say they are working on it. Why would you do that??

Why? Liable. legally responsible: You are liable for the damage caused by your action.

I am working on getting you an update from the top.

Here is the confirmation that you have been requesting. The product has not been discontinued.

As we have previously mentioned we just haven't been able to get the results out of turret that we were hoping for at the frame rates required which has caused the hold up. We hope to have some good news for you on this soon.

Thank you Tim for the update. If there's anyone that can overcome those technical challenges is you guys. Keep working. I know the Bar is set high!

P.s A short film i shot for a friend on the Ursa V1 just got accepted into a small film festival here in Ny. The Lovecraft film Festival.

So nothing has really changed except another month has gone by.

Iain, no one said the turret is coming. What was stated is "The upgradable turret mount for the original URSA camera has been delayed due to technical challenges, so while we continue to work on solving these, we are extending the special offer...". That is a far cry from the turret is coming. They have been working on the technical challenges for years, not months. Challenges that should have been addressed long before selling a camera with an upgradable turret. I appreciate getting a message from the CEO and I need/want the turret to happen as much as the next person, but I'm not doing it with my head in the sand that buys them another two years.

I do believe it will come. If they had no intention of delivering on one it would have been easy to have taken this opportunity to just 'pull the plug'. But they have not. They continue to say they are working on it. Why would you do that??

Why? Liable. legally responsible: You are liable for the damage caused by your action.

Yup I understand where you are coming from. I'm going to leave the legal argument alone simply because if they don't deliver clearly there are people here that will try to come together and launch some sort of class action. Personally speaking I'm not sure that it would be successful and will tie everyone's lives up for years. I'm not saying that it is right to let people down - I'm just stating fact.

It was always a fear of mine that taking up the offer of the upgrade as to whether it would it prove worthwhile? The only way it would work for me was whether or not I ended up with an A/B camera set up. If I was investing another £3K to have two single cameras then that was not compensation for 'no turret'. The fact is I have been thrilled with how well I can cut/grade between the two cameras (Ursa v2) so for me the deal is ok - not perfect. There are shots (usually 'reds' and extremes of dynamic range) that are nigh on impossible to match but on the whole I am happy. I would absolutely take the turret upgrade for my studio stuff - I much prefer the form factor of the big Ursa. That 10" screen is just awesome, the higher frame rates are just fab.
My issue will be is if the turret arrives but with no global shutter or high frame rates I probably will stick with what I have. I fear the Ursa v2 will become, with hindsight, a platform/form factor that BM wished they had continued with. For me I would still choose it over many cameras to shoot beauty - the skin tones are just fantastic. I can confidently say that because I also shoot RED/Alexa. By tech standards it may now be regarded as old tech but my God it still shoots a beautiful image. I will be the first to admit I RMA'd 2 (or was it 3) before I was happy but the camera has shot in very varied and sometimes difficult situations and has never let me down. So a plea to BM, please resurrect the Ursa with the turret!

Well I read Grants post here...viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61288

The news I gathered is that they are still working on the Turret and will never know when they will be satisfied with the outcome. So we just have to be patience for now. And by the way, if you need a 4.6K option, you can take advantage of the loyalty discount for URSA owners.

I think the man does not understand that most original owners of the URSA has sold theirs by now and those who bought the URSA From the original owners, who are legit current owners, who want or need a 4.6K does not qualify for the loyalty upgrade. If there are loyal URSA owners waiting for the Turret, they are the ones who currently own a used URSA. So the upgrade business does not work for all URSA "current" owners. If it did, they maybe the current owners who need a 4.6K will yield to the UMP.