Intensity Shuttle and capture flickering with VHS content

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TamaMan

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Intensity Shuttle and capture flickering with VHS content

PostSat Jun 30, 2018 8:15 am

Product: Intensity Shuttle USB
Driver: 10.9.12
Computer: Lenovo E560 + Windows 10 x64

Dear Forum Members,

I bought the Intensity Shuttle for transferring old VHS material. When using a VCR or a VHS camcorder as the source, the video flashes/flickers with black frames. Tried with Black Magic Media Express, VirtualDub and OBS Studio.

Where should I start trouble-shooting this issue?

PS. Tested also with a borrowed cheap $20 USB capturing device and no flashing/flickering with that.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Intensity Shuttle and capture flickering with VHS conten

PostTue Jul 03, 2018 5:28 am

VHS tape has very poor timecode encoding when the tapes were new. As they age, it gets worse with tape drop out and image stabilization issues. CRT TVs which were used to watch VHS was very forgiving with broken TC, and would continue to play the tapes. Digital systems are much more picky and you need to use a good Broadcast type Time Base Corrector to repair the broken TC segments on the tape. The TCC goes between the type deck and the video capture device..

Do a search here, and in the Kivd Production Forum for VHS type Time Code issues for more details. ;)
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Peter Benson

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Re: Intensity Shuttle and capture flickering with VHS conten

PostTue Jul 03, 2018 9:44 am

Denny Smith wrote:VHS tape has very poor timecode encoding when the tapes were new. As they age, it gets worse with tape drop out and image stabilization issues. CRT TVs which were used to watch VHS was very forgiving with broken TC, and would continue to play the tapes. Digital systems are much more picky and you need to use a good Broadcast type Time Base Corrector to repair it... The TCC goes between the type deck and the video capture device..

Do a search here, and in the Kivd Production Forum for VHS type Time Code issues for more details. ;)
Cheers


Actually, the TBC does not repair unstable time code. Instead, such devices' generated timecode replacesincoming timecode being sent to it, from, say -- within the old videotape's video signal.

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Denny Smith

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Re: Intensity Shuttle and capture flickering with VHS conten

PostTue Jul 03, 2018 4:54 pm

Yes Peter, better explaination, that is what I should have said. A TBC does not repair the tape itself, just regenerates a new TC on the TBC output to re-sync the tape signal for a stable playback. Thanks.

For more info on TBC for VHS recording, see: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=62609&hilit=+VHS and other posts by Collin Barrett.
Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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SeeNoEvil

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Re: Intensity Shuttle and capture flickering with VHS conten

PostThu Jul 05, 2018 7:43 am

I had exactly the same issue when I bought my Intensity Pro PCI Express card in February to transfer VHS tapes, bursts of black frames and strobing from picture to black, and the sound slowly going further out of sync as I transferred. The condition of the tape made a difference, a home recorded tape strobed much more than a retail tape. Anyway after a post on here, someone said I'd needed a Time Base Corrector.

I had no idea what a TBC was, but after reading up online, and waiting a month or so for one to come up on eBay, I opted for a DataVideo TBC-1000 for £160 buy-it-now. Time Base Correctors can be really hit and miss quality-wise, and it's not even like you get what you pay for since they're all expensive, even the crappy ones. I borrowed a fairly new CYP CTB-100G Multi-System Time Base Corrector from a friend just to test out that not having a TBC was the issue, and the quality difference between the two TBCs is massive. The CYP was more expensive than my TBC-1000 unit the quality on mine is so much better. There is a good guide to TBC buying on the digitalfaq forum, I can't post the URL, but if you google "digitalfaq time base corrector guide", it's the first thing that comes up

I have used to use an Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Hybrid PCI-E TV Tuner Card to capture, and that never gave me any issues with black frames, but it also only captured a 25fps analogue PAL signal. The Intensity card captures both PAL and NTSC, even PAL-60 (although the colours are not as accurate when played with a fully NTSC VCR). I think it's down to the Intensity pro card expecting a very exact signal, and between the older VCR and older tape, the fine sync isn't 100% perfect and a TBC fixes that, but someone may correct me on that.

Image

My current setup is a UK PAL JVC HR-S7600 S-VHS VCR (for PAL tapes) and a US NTSC JVC HR-S9500U S-VHS VCR (powered by a Goldsource ST-1500 1500w 240v/110v voltage converter, for NTSC tapes), through a DataVideo TBC-1000 Time Base Corrector using S-Video cables, to a PC with an Intensity Pro PCIe Capture Card. This rig allows capture of both NTSC & PAL S-VHS/VHS tapes, and has transferred NTSC & PAL BetaCam, BetaCamSP & Digibeta tapes in the past (matching players & TBC/Genlock units were borrowed through a friend).
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Re: Intensity Shuttle and capture flickering with VHS conten

PostMon Aug 06, 2018 11:38 pm

Using the Thunderbolt version of Intensity Shuttle with my 13'Macbookpro(2015) and a VHS/DVD recorder gives no dropped frames at all, my guess the used laptop/PC isn't having enough speed through USB3.
Have a try-out on a stronger pc before buying too expensive hardware, or upgrade internal RAM.
I have VHS tapes that are older than 25 years, and give no problems with my setup.
UltraStudio Mini Recorder, Intensity Shuttle, ATEM Mini, Assist 6G. Davinci Resolve 15 > Sierra, Resolve 16 > Catalina. Media Express, MacX Video Converter Pro, UniConverter (Using Apple OS 32 & 64 bit on MacBook Pro hardware)
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Re: Intensity Shuttle and capture flickering with VHS conten

PostTue Aug 07, 2018 8:31 am

@eric-jan, Then your VHS playout device has a good TBC inside.. Because most problems related to VHS in this forum has all to do with the lack of a TBC.. BMD hardware from itself is not able to recover a good sync on VHS..
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Eric-Jan

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Re: Intensity Shuttle and capture flickering with VHS conten

PostTue Aug 07, 2018 9:53 am

This VHS/DVD recorder does make good vhs transfers to dvd, i guess the quality also comes out of the composite RCA output, i will also try the S-video output it has, next time, there are also component connections, but both vhs and dvd give only black and white capture results, but i'll try some other settings with this, these component connections might need the sync of the composite output which is not supported for the Intensity Shuttle box, in this day and age :)

update: I now also managed to make a good video capture from the component output of a VHS tape, it works fine ! I'm very happy with the Intensity Shuttle ! the VHS/DVD recorder is the Panasonic DMR-ES35V
it has Component, S-Video, Composite video out, two SCART connectors, and also optical audio out, i bought this one new, after the VHS "time age" online, just lucky i guess, because i had not any choice but this one.
I now do notice, that Media Express is slightly less responsive when i click on it's functions like tab page and capture button.

Update: since i discovered that the component also outputs the VHS output, i use no other connections, component just gives the best results.
UltraStudio Mini Recorder, Intensity Shuttle, ATEM Mini, Assist 6G. Davinci Resolve 15 > Sierra, Resolve 16 > Catalina. Media Express, MacX Video Converter Pro, UniConverter (Using Apple OS 32 & 64 bit on MacBook Pro hardware)
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Re: Intensity Shuttle and capture flickering with VHS conten

PostThu Jan 09, 2020 1:57 pm

PROBLEM SOLVED!

I just bought an Intensity Shuttle USB to transfer VHS tapes and got into the same flicker problem. I bought the VHS for $20 so I didn't want to spend another $100 on a Time Code thingy.

I got from Amazon a Scart to HDMI converter for $8 and it works like magic. You plug the scart or composite into one end and use a HDMI cable to connect it to the Intensity and the flicker stops. I know the intensity inputs become kind of useless but it's a cheap solution.
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Eric-Jan

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Re: Intensity Shuttle and capture flickering with VHS conten

PostSat Jan 11, 2020 1:26 am

stefanwyatt89 wrote:PROBLEM SOLVED!

I just bought an Intensity Shuttle USB to transfer VHS tapes and got into the same flicker problem. I bought the VHS for $20 so I didn't want to spend another $100 on a Time Code thingy.

I got from Amazon a Scart to HDMI converter for $8 and it works like magic. You plug the scart or composite into one end and use a HDMI cable to connect it to the Intensity and the flicker stops. I know the intensity inputs become kind of useless but it's a cheap solution.


That's good to hear ! could you give the the details of the converter that you use ?
Most of the time it's more a miss then a hit with these devices, you surely have a hit here ! nice ! it somehow manages to clean-up the video signal, because the Intensity Shuttle needs a clean video signal, if you had known this at an earlier stage, you could have used the UltraStudio Mini Recorder, from BMD, this one is even cheaper than the USB version of Intensity Shuttle, and runs also from the port it's power, and is compact in format.

btw: do you still have interlaced at the HDMI output of the converter ? or is it also converted to progressive ?
UltraStudio Mini Recorder, Intensity Shuttle, ATEM Mini, Assist 6G. Davinci Resolve 15 > Sierra, Resolve 16 > Catalina. Media Express, MacX Video Converter Pro, UniConverter (Using Apple OS 32 & 64 bit on MacBook Pro hardware)
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Re: Intensity Shuttle and capture flickering with VHS conten

PostSat Feb 08, 2020 9:22 pm

I'm experiencing the exact same problem... and i think it's mind blowing that we can still contact voyager 1&2... but still we're having problems with converting analog signals to digital...

@stefanwyatt89: please let us know wich converter you're using to solve this problem, and also if it converts interlaced to progressive :) ?

"A leap of faith":

Today I bought the Marmitek Connect AH31 RCA, because i hope this will resolve the problem.

For a company like BlackMagic, i find it amazing they offer free (cutting edge) video editing software... but when it comes down to the RCA input on the Intensity Shuttle (?)
I'm not sure what to think, but there must be a good reason for the flickering black frames... while other RCA to HDMI converters don't have that problem...
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Eric-Jan

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Re: Intensity Shuttle and capture flickering with VHS conten

PostTue Feb 11, 2020 9:13 pm

Hi, Pascal ! I also hope "stefanwyatt89" will return to answer ! a lot just depends on experimenting, so it seems,
and just try "things".
BMD is mostly (semi)Pro stuff, they do state their equipment expects a clean signal, most ordenary VHS consumers VCR's don't do that, so you need some kind of passthrough equipment, and this is mostly DVD recorder hardware, of a certain "age" and HDMI is a bit tricky with that, because HDMI also "communicates"....

I just also subscribed to avforums, also a site with lots of info.
UltraStudio Mini Recorder, Intensity Shuttle, ATEM Mini, Assist 6G. Davinci Resolve 15 > Sierra, Resolve 16 > Catalina. Media Express, MacX Video Converter Pro, UniConverter (Using Apple OS 32 & 64 bit on MacBook Pro hardware)
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Re: Intensity Shuttle and capture flickering with VHS conten

PostTue Feb 11, 2020 9:38 pm

Thanks to stefanwyatt89 i was able to capture a first test of 30 mins, with succes !
I would also like to thank Eric-Jan for more tips to make this possible.
A leap of faith: buying the Marmitek AH31 was a good choice for me. There may be even cheaper converters that can do the trick... and i'm sure stefanwyatt89 can share his setup :)

Yet i still wonder why the Intensity Shuttle is so picky with the analog signal strenght...
If we can still communicate with the Voyager spacecrafts, isn't it just a matter of energy ?
#powersupply #signal


Eric-Jan wrote:
stefanwyatt89 wrote:PROBLEM SOLVED!

I just bought an Intensity Shuttle USB to transfer VHS tapes and got into the same flicker problem. I bought the VHS for $20 so I didn't want to spend another $100 on a Time Code thingy.

I got from Amazon a Scart to HDMI converter for $8 and it works like magic. You plug the scart or composite into one end and use a HDMI cable to connect it to the Intensity and the flicker stops. I know the intensity inputs become kind of useless but it's a cheap solution.


That's good to hear ! could you give the the details of the converter that you use ?
Most of the time it's more a miss then a hit with these devices, you surely have a hit here ! nice ! it somehow manages to clean-up the video signal, because the Intensity Shuttle needs a clean video signal, if you had known this at an earlier stage, you could have used the UltraStudio Mini Recorder, from BMD, this one is even cheaper than the USB version of Intensity Shuttle, and runs also from the port it's power, and is compact in format.

btw: do you still have interlaced at the HDMI output of the converter ? or is it also converted to progressive ?
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Eric-Jan

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Re: Intensity Shuttle and capture flickering with VHS conten

PostWed Feb 12, 2020 5:48 pm

The TV signal is in good quality when it is transmitted, once it is recorded, it depends on de mechanical parts, (tape transport, stable speed of the head drum) and electronics, how clean the signal stays, lines are written on the screen, making two interlaced fields, which becomes one frame, if there's fast movement between to fields, the (one) frame isn't a perfect picture, this has to be "translated" in a good (digital) picture, and all should be in sync with eachother....(new line, new field, new frame) a normal digital frame is one whole picture, (progressive) there are different ways to encode/decode......
UltraStudio Mini Recorder, Intensity Shuttle, ATEM Mini, Assist 6G. Davinci Resolve 15 > Sierra, Resolve 16 > Catalina. Media Express, MacX Video Converter Pro, UniConverter (Using Apple OS 32 & 64 bit on MacBook Pro hardware)
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Re: Intensity Shuttle and capture flickering with VHS conten

PostTue Apr 28, 2020 5:47 pm

Hi guys,
I have to agree, it really works perfectly converting from S-Video or composite before HDMI converter to Blackmagic Intensity. The image does not flicker, no black images, no TBC required! ;) I use equipment from the manufacturer PETCSH (772-114). The only thing that bothers me is that the signal is detected as 720p60, but of course in a 16: 9 aspect ratio. In general, these HDMI converters can only convert an analog signal to 720 / 1080P mode. However, the old analog recordings are in a 4: 3 ratio, and the image is thus distorted proportionally. What with this? Can you advise? Thanks for the idea
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Eric-Jan

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Re: Intensity Shuttle and capture flickering with VHS conten

PostTue Apr 28, 2020 8:42 pm

Yes, you have to check a 4:3 option box somewhere along the way and you're fine, no problem.
these converters have no way to "see" what 16:9 or 4:3 is, that's only possible through SCART or HDMI.
Also, you should not activate any "upscale" options.
Although you get a steady image, you will loose some image quality, also in the "solid color" area's of the picture.
Using short as possible cables is also a good idea.
UltraStudio Mini Recorder, Intensity Shuttle, ATEM Mini, Assist 6G. Davinci Resolve 15 > Sierra, Resolve 16 > Catalina. Media Express, MacX Video Converter Pro, UniConverter (Using Apple OS 32 & 64 bit on MacBook Pro hardware)

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