Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

I don't mind CDNG @ 3:1.

Then you'll be pleased to know that you can have Gen4 color on your Ursa Mini 4.6K right now. Open your cDNG files in Resolve 15 and you'll see that Gen4 color is an option in the raw tab.

Jamie, yes, you can do that today on the original URSA Mini 4.6K camera but John Brawley has posted that Colour 4 is not yet fully implemented for the camera; when another firmware update is applied, there will be some processing of the image data in-camera that will be done differently for Colour 4.

John made that comment outside the context of BRAW. If I’ve misinterpreted something, hopefully John or the Captain will correct me.


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Hi Rick : )

I'm pretty sure what you're referring to is that there is also a new debayer added to the Ursa Mini Pro in addition to the Gen4 color. So, cDNG clips from the 4.6K can be decoded in Resolve with the same Gen4 color, but the sharpness/grain structure and the appearance of the motion cadence will be different from BRAW UMP clips.

That's my understanding at least. As you say, perhaps JB or Hook can chime in and clarify.

Sounds reasonable, thanks Jamie.


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Another claim of eliminated FPN from respected cinematographer Ed David. Also, his comparison footage of CinemaDNG vs BRAW:

Another claim of eliminated FPN from respected cinematographer Ed David. Also, his comparison footage of CinemaDNG vs BRAW:

WHOA, OK Blackmagic, it's time. Please get this fix to FPN @1600 iso into the UM 4.6k PRONTO!!!!!

Why is the noise performance so much better? I just keep wondering if this is 100% because of the BRAW codec only. I'd like to see the noise improvement in ProRes too if possible. Can you at least give an update to the firmware to give improved noise performance?

+1, please Black Magic, what you´ve done is great, don´t punish early adopters!

+1, please Black Magic, what you´ve done is great, don´t punish early adopters!

Early adopters? I just bought a 4.6k brand new last month. I didn't need the built in ND filters, I thought the 4.6k was just an alternate model, not some type of downgrade. Whatever Blackmagic.

Agree, Stephen. When you don’t need all the buttons, when you like a larger monitor, when you already own full sets of ND, when you are going to use a matte box anyway. URSA Mini 4.6K fills the bill.


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Early adopters? I just bought a 4.6k brand new last month. I didn't need the built in ND filters, I thought the 4.6k was just an alternate model, not some type of downgrade. Whatever Blackmagic.

Yes, en my case early adopter. We waited many months to be able to buy it, and didn´t have the chance to choose built in ND filters, would´ve bought the PRO if avalaible at that moment.

Now I am an BMPCC4K early adopter too (it means we trust BM). I hope to be well treated in future.

It would be nice to know as soon as possible if it's even technically possible to get BRAW into URSA Mini 4.6k. If not, I will be swapping my UM to URSA Mini Pro, I guess.

It would be nice to know as soon as possible if it's even technically possible to get BRAW into URSA Mini 4.6k. If not, I will be swapping my UM to URSA Mini Pro, I guess.

+1

I don't know, I'm still seeing some FPN in the shadows in the images with the babies, not sure about what compression or iso they are?

I also prefer the Raw 4:1 in the grading samples of his face, but admit there is less noise in the background with BRAW.

I should mention when evaluating Nate’s footage, I have it on my lowly iMac 27” late 2015 on a Resolve 15 4608x2592 timeline so I can see every pixel on the 27” 5120x2880 screen and it plays without a glitch! That might be helped by having the Render cache set to Smart.


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I can't believe that anyone would feel that way. I will gladly shoot on a BMCC 2.5K any day of the week. Are we forgetting so soon that Blackmagic added so many new features to that camera than when it first came out including compressed CDNG options, histograms and other very handy new functionality.

If anyone's BMD camera is gathering dust, please let me know as I will gladly take it off their hands. I will even pay for postage!

The Ursa Mini 4.6k is still a fantastic camera BRAW or not.

Seriously, WTF is wrong with you people?!?

Yeah, this is true. I am shooting with Production 4k and the image is superb and has been since day 1.

[Tim Schumann]

It would be nice to know as soon as possible if it's even technically possible to get BRAW into URSA Mini 4.6k. If not, I will be swapping my UM to URSA Mini Pro, I guess.

+1

We hope so. Please bear with us. We have not forgotten you.

As we said at IBC, we are working on finishing the general release for the Mini Pro. Pocket 4K will be next and we will also look at what other cameras we can get it into.

The good news for the URSA Mini 4.6K is the sensor profiling work is already done.

And the GUI and Menu is almost done.


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It would be nice to know as soon as possible if it's even technically possible to get BRAW into URSA Mini 4.6k. If not, I will be swapping my UM to URSA Mini Pro, I guess.

+1

We hope so. Please bear with us. We have not forgotten you.

As we said at IBC, we are working on finishing the general release for the Mini Pro. Pocket 4K will be next and we will also look at what other cameras we can get it into.

The good news for the URSA Mini 4.6K is the sensor profiling work is already done.

Thanks BlackMagic Team. Eagerly waiting.

Cheers for the update Blackmagic Team. Same here , I'm waiting with the baited breath.

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That would be a huge welcome bonus if it's rolled out to UM4.6k!


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It would be nice to know as soon as possible if it's even technically possible to get BRAW into URSA Mini 4.6k. If not, I will be swapping my UM to URSA Mini Pro, I guess.

+1

We hope so. Please bear with us. We have not forgotten you.

As we said at IBC, we are working on finishing the general release for the Mini Pro. Pocket 4K will be next and we will also look at what other cameras we can get it into.

The good news for the URSA Mini 4.6K is the sensor profiling work is already done.

Thank you for the update Tim! I'm eagerly anticipating BRAW coming to the UM4.6K like everyone else. After doing the number crunching it will become my main shooting format exclusively. You guys did an amazing job with the compression and quality.

The fact that I could shoot 4.6K 12:1 on a 128 GB card and get 57 minutes vs shooting 1080 HD ProRes 444 and getting 63 minutes is amazing. I don't mind that I lose 6 minutes of recording time to have RAW and 4.6K because those are welcome improvement. So 4.6K RAW 12:1 will become my main choice for anything that would have been 1080 HD in the past, and means it's UHD future proof at the same time.

You guys are the best. I'm positive the UM4.6K can handle it. So excited, and can't wait!

Thank you Blackmagic for the update, this is the kind of communication we needed. I’m really looking forward to the new color science and the ability to shoot on smaller SSD’s, really needed when using the one a lot one for the UM

I repeat, Great progress update from the Blackmagic Team. But Ursa 4.6k owners and others ( myself included )
Don't! jump the gun and get to confidant. We will have to wait and see for the outcome in regards colour science 4 and BRAW for cameras other than the ones already stated. "Jus sayin"

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It would be nice to know as soon as possible if it's even technically possible to get BRAW into URSA Mini 4.6k. If not, I will be swapping my UM to URSA Mini Pro, I guess.

+1

We hope so. Please bear with us. We have not forgotten you.

As we said at IBC, we are working on finishing the general release for the Mini Pro. Pocket 4K will be next and we will also look at what other cameras we can get it into.

The good news for the URSA Mini 4.6K is the sensor profiling work is already done.

Very good news

Hi, any news on mini 4.6k colour science 4 or braw?

My guess will be early part of 2019. I very much doubt it will arrive before then. IMO.

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Hi, any news on mini 4.6k colour science 4 or braw?

Seeing as the update from BM said they would be sorting it on the BMPCC4K next, I wouldn’t hold your breath for any time soon..

Hm, am I the only 1 here, that cannot see ANY difference regarding noise patterns, when comparing the BMD RAW vs DNG ?

I can see them quite clearly, sorry.

Wish I had BRAW for my current project, let’s make sure BMD doesn’t forget about their other cameras!

Yeah, I have some model shoots coming up in November I really wish I could use Blackmagic RAW on. Either I’ll be shooting HD ProRes 444 or 4.6K 2.4:1 CDNG depending on how much hard drive space I’m willing to give up. I just would rather shoot RAW.

Otherwise, I’m still going to shoot ProRes on a lot of projects due to client demands. So my fingers are crossed for Blackmagic RAW soon, but mainly for my personal projects.


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Tim, consider shooting 2K 16:9 to give you room to do some reframing. I did that last week and I’m glad I did as I made a vertical adjustment on some clips while delivering DCI 2K.


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I everyone on Blackmagic Forum. I bought a Ursa mini 4.6k a few mounths ago for a specific project I will shoot on march 2019. I was wondering if anyone knows with some certainty if the BRAW codec will be available for this model some day or they are planning to forget about the non-Ursa 4.6k PRO consumers for good, and never release it. Is it possible? I don´t understand why they didn´t release the codec for both cameras from the start? Is it a strategy for reward the 4.6k PRO users and punish the others?

I everyone on Blackmagic Forum. I bought a Ursa mini 4.6k a few mounths ago for a specific project I will shoot on march 2019. I was wondering if anyone knows with some certainty if the BRAW codec will be available for this model some day or they are planning to forget about the non-Ursa 4.6k PRO consumers for good, and never release it. Is it possible? I don´t understand why they didn´t release the codec for both cameras from the start? Is it a strategy for reward the 4.6k PRO users and punish the others?

Hi Martin, they’ve stated a few different things regarding bringing BRAW to their other cameras. Obviously those of us like myself don’t like their approach, but we just have to wait and see. There has been no straight answer or timelines given by BMD. I’m just going to keep shooting and keep bumping this thread so it remains visible. Aside from that, the prores is great for me, my camera works great, but yes BRAW would be a fantastic addition. Though, personally I just wanna shoot ProRes with the V4 color science in camera over anything. Get on that BMD

Martin, remember the implementation on the Mini Pro is beta. Personally I’d rather wait for the implementation on the Mini 4.6K after it’s out of beta. And the BMPCC4K I understand is next in the list, so the Mini 4.6K may be shortly after that.


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Tim, consider shooting 2K 16:9 to give you room to do some reframing. I did that last week and I’m glad I did as I made a vertical adjustment on some clips while delivering DCI 2K.


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If I shoot ProRes I’ll consider it.

I honestly prefer RAW always. The model shoot Sunday will likely be ProRes, but the model on the 12th will likely be RAW. Why? Purely because of how more refined the idea of the video is.

However, would always prefer to shoot RAW.


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I everyone on Blackmagic Forum. I bought a Ursa mini 4.6k a few mounths ago for a specific project I will shoot on march 2019. I was wondering if anyone knows with some certainty if the BRAW codec will be available for this model some day or they are planning to forget about the non-Ursa 4.6k PRO consumers for good, and never release it. Is it possible? I don´t understand why they didn´t release the codec for both cameras from the start? Is it a strategy for reward the 4.6k PRO users and punish the others?

It’s definitely because the Pro is now the flagship high end BMD camera. It’s about the future cameras being built off that design. At the same time the original URSA Mini 4.6K will get it because the sensor is the same and I’m positive the processor can handle it. It will only be after the beta phase that it happens. That’s sad though because if it were opened to all the 4.6K sensor cameras the beta feedback would be greater.

Nonetheless, I’ve given my feedback. I’ve got ideas on how awesome the new codec is and what it can allow. I’m working on jotting down some more ideas for the future of BMD cameras to share with the team. I had a fun epiphany the other day about where all the camera technology in the industry is going to go and how it will better integrate with post-production. Hands down, Blackmagic is at the forefront.

I’m glad to be a Blackmagic supporter. They have their fingers on the future. Blackmagic RAW is a great step on the path to that future.


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As a long BMD customer, i doubt they will ever implement BRAW into the Ursa-Mini. As much as i would love this to happen. Its nice they jump into the forum from time to time saying they work on this and that to keep people calmed but it will only raise hopes for something that will never come. Let me remind you on the message still sticking to this forum from Grant saying they work on the turret for the Ursa, its from July 2017..... of course they are still working on it

Like others have stated in this thread, i would rather like them to say we dont do it period.

My hopes are high that they will implement v4 colour science, its a must for Multi-camera shoots with newer BMD Cameras.

As a long BMD customer, i doubt they will ever implement BRAW into the Ursa-Mini. As much as i would love this to happen. Its nice they jump into the forum from time to time saying they work on this and that to keep people calmed but it will only raise hopes for something that will never come. Let me remind you on the message still sticking to this forum from Grant saying they work on the turret for the Ursa, its from July 2017..... of course they are still working on it

Completely different thing. The turret and the sensor upgrade are dependent on a third party manufacturer and they can test a new sensor fix every three months. If the sensor manufacturer is not able to fix the problems, BMD is out of luck.

Implementing braw on the UM46k is just a matter of if it having enough processing power and I'd like to remind you that in its current state braw is BETA in its first implementation.

So I think it will work out well for all.

Completely different thing. The turret and the sensor upgrade are dependent on a third party manufacturer and they can test a new sensor fix every three months. If the sensor manufacturer is not able to fix the problems, BMD is out of luck.

Implementing braw on the UM46k is just a matter of if it having enough processing power and I'd like to remind you that in its current state braw is BETA in its first implementation.

So I think it will work out well for all.

The sensor for the Turret was the same like in the Ursa-Mini, they made it work on the new product..... yes they obviously have had some problems implementing it in the URSA and gave up at one point in time, i dont know why, you dont know why... but your right its not exactly the same only the fact that it sucks. so let me give you another example of why i think it will not happen.

The Shuttle recorder was delivered with a DISP button wich had no function when it was delivered, it was supposed to be done in a firmware update. As far as i know it did never happen, at least until i sold the unit again. they planed to implement it on the next Gen wich did not come or did come. It still was a great product at the time though.

Its the price you pay when you buy yourself into the BM-System, you get incredible products for a fraction of the price but if there is new technology and a new generation of products dont expect it to end up in the old generation, somehow its logical business thinking, still hard to swallow.

I would be really surprised if BMRAW came to the Ursa Mini. Lets hope at least for V4 Colour.

I think to be fair to owners of the 4.6k, the UMP came out very soon after many of them will have actually received their cameras (6 months in my case). I don't have that body anymore fortunately but I would be feeling a bit annoyed too if I did. The UMP came out very soon (in video camera life-cycles) after the 4.6k was meaningfully shipping, and fixed a lot of problems with that camera.

So now adding another reason that the 4.6k is inferior (not to say it isn't a great camera), would be a bit of a kick in the teeth.

I'd love to see BRAW implemented on the URSA Broadcast.

No sure what processor it uses, but being a newer body, similar to the UMP, I'd hope it has the grunt to implement. That would really make it's usability as a Super16 doco camera even more complete.

I've stated it before, I truly believe the original URSA Mini 4.6K processor can handle Blackmagic RAW. I'm 100% it can do it. And, I'm really excited thinking about having it.

I just shot a model video yesterday and got 50-minutes worth of RAW 4:1 4.6K 2.4:1 footage on a 256 GB card. The footage looks incredible! CinemaDNG still is great, but I wish I could have shot it all in Blackmagic RAW. I'll share the footage as soon as it's edited. Running around today doing some necessary errands (damn cars and their need for maintenance) so can't say how much editing I can get done.

The thing I especially love about Blackmagic RAW is what it does for handling the footage in Resolve for editing. I know Hook said they're working on integrating more RAW Controls on the Color Page, so with that in mind the team is still working to improve BRAW.

Have faith. Blackmagic has delivered one fantastic update to the 4.6K with Firmware 4.0 back in 2016. That was a huge stepping stone. Blackmagic RAW would be the next one. No matter what I'll be staying loyal to Blackmagic Cameras because they continually improve with each release.

I've stated it before, I truly believe the original URSA Mini 4.6K processor can handle Blackmagic RAW. I'm 100% it can do it. And, I'm really excited thinking about having it.

I think you're right. It would be a bummer to learn that we're wrong, but from what I understand the Pro and non-Pro Ursa Minis are largely the same under the hood, and I think even the Broadcast model is as well, which bodes well.

My theory for why BMD is beta testing Braw on just one camera right now is that it's to keep things manageable. Spreading the team thinner testing Braw on other cameras at the same time would slow things down overall.

If that's correct, then Braw for the Pocket and (probably) other Ursa Mini cameras that are compatible will come fairly quickly after Braw on the UMP is certified for release.

I just shot a model video yesterday and got 50-minutes worth of RAW 4:1 4.6K 2.4:1 footage on a 256 GB card. The footage looks incredible! CinemaDNG still is great, but I wish I could have shot it all in Blackmagic RAW. I'll share the footage as soon as it's edited. Running around today doing some necessary errands (damn cars and their need for maintenance) so can't say how much editing I can get done.

Can't wait to see it!

Can't wait to see it!

Rough cut done, and a very positive response from the model. Just need to color grade, so will likely release tomorrow depending on the normal "life" variables. Seeing an opera tonight, working tomorrow on a purely money gig (not using a great camera), and trying to fit in the time to get the color done doesn't always work with hopeful release dates.

Will share as soon as it's ready. Again, it looks great! And, the one pass color grade is passable to release. I just want to really give it a grade that I can be proud of.

In additional notes to the reply I just wrote. I really wish I had used Blackmagic RAW on this model video. CinemaDNG still gets the job done. However, those Sidecar files would be wonderful to have. I usually do a stringout edit timeline of all the footage and throw some quick grades on to look at the footage. Often then I'll use the match frame shortcut to get the clip into the viewer so I can then put in and out points to put on an edit timeline. It's a pain then to get the color over sadly. I use the RAW Controls, so that Sidecar file would be very useful.

As I thought about it. Shooting CinemaDNG RAW 4:1 in 2.4:1 and getting 50-minutes of footage on a 256 GB card would have probably changed to less than 128 GB with Blackmagic RAW 8:1 in 2.4:1, and even less in 12:1. Plain and simple I prefer RAW. So I can't contain my excitement about Blackmagic RAW. Hopefully it's available for the UM Pro, original UM4.6K, and Pocket 4K by Christmas. That would be the best Christmas present ever.

I usually do a stringout edit timeline of all the footage and throw some quick grades on to look at the footage. Often then I'll use the match frame shortcut to get the clip into the viewer so I can then put in and out points to put on an edit timeline. It's a pain then to get the color over sadly.

Why not just use Resolve's "Remote Grades" feature for that workflow? You wouldn't have to do any match framing to get the grades to carry over to your edit timeline. They'll just automatically be there.

This linked demo shows how Remote Grades work within one timeline, but they work the same across all timelines in a project. Remote grades flow from the clip within the media pool so will be there for any use of that clip in all timelines in the project (unless manually switched back to local). If you later want to move to local copies, you can use the "copy remote grades to local" command.

I usually do a stringout edit timeline of all the footage and throw some quick grades on to look at the footage. Often then I'll use the match frame shortcut to get the clip into the viewer so I can then put in and out points to put on an edit timeline. It's a pain then to get the color over sadly.

Why not just use Resolve's "Remote Grades" feature for that workflow? You wouldn't have to do any match framing to get the grades to carry over to your edit timeline. They'll just automatically be there.

This linked demo shows how Remote Grades work within one timeline, but they work the same across all timelines in a project. Remote grades flow from the clip within the media pool so will be there for any use of that clip in all timelines in the project (unless manually switched back to local). If you later want to move to local copies, you can use the "copy remote grades to local" command.

Thanks Jamie, I'll check it out more and probably do that on the next video that I'm shooting next week for a different model. At this time I'm in the per clip creative grade aspect of this project. As well as a little shot matching just to make sure it all flows. About to head to this gig, so hoping to get to color when I get home around 7 or 8.

I'm still going to say that the sidecar file is most welcome aspect of BRAW. Plus that single file clip of the RAW instead of image sequences. No matter what, I love shooting RAW.

Finally here is that video I mentioned above:

Hey,

in joining into the discussion because i would prefer buying a UM46 over a second UMP. But with the release of the BRAW codec without a clear statement if it will come to the UM46 aswell (even if it takes a year) iam pretty cautious about pressing the button.

I mean, if it just does the 8:1, or 6:1 BRAW it would still be preferable over CDNG for me and i also want it to be easily matched with my existing UMP and hopefully the BMPCC4k (with braw update) aswell.

So, Blackmagic, could you please clear this up for everyone? I mean, you should know if the processor of the UM46 can handle it in general, you build this thing. If its possible, but just a matter of time - no problem. But if the UM46 is too weak just tell us so we have clearance.

Greetings and thanks,

Rick

+1

Hey,

in joining into the discussion because i would prefer buying a UM46 over a second UMP. But with the release of the BRAW codec without a clear statement if it will come to the UM46 aswell (even if it takes a year) iam pretty cautious about pressing the button.

I mean, if it just does the 8:1, or 6:1 BRAW it would still be preferable over CDNG for me and i also want it to be easily matched with my existing UMP and hopefully the BMPCC4k (with braw update) aswell.

So, Blackmagic, could you please clear this up for everyone? I mean, you should know if the processor of the UM46 can handle it in general, you build this thing. If its possible, but just a matter of time - no problem. But if the UM46 is too weak just tell us so we have clearance.

Greetings and thanks,

Rick