Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

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Stephen Fitzgerald

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostMon Dec 10, 2018 8:21 am

hmmm
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Rick Baer

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostMon Dec 17, 2018 7:37 pm

bump
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timbutt2

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Dec 18, 2018 11:44 am

I understand why you're bumping this up so that it stays in people's minds. However, it would be nice if you wrote more than just bump. Give an example of a recent project you wish you had Blackmagic RAW on.

My example is yesterday I shot just under 300 GB of CinemaDNG RAW 4:1 (1.78:1) for about 45-minutes of footage. I mainly shot slow-motion since it was a model shoot. I shot RAW for the highlight recover, and it was a perfect example of wishing I had Blackmagic RAW 12:1 since ultimately I didn't want to take up that much hard drive space.

Now, at the same time I didn't have to shoot RAW on this as I could have done HD ProRes 444. Yet, it's nice to use RAW because it's the best option on the camera. Here's to hoping Blackmagic RAW comes down the line to the URSA Mini 4.6K soon.

Video to come soon...
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Rolands Briedis

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Dec 18, 2018 4:20 pm

Yes, this is the end of this year, please Blackmagic give us the answer, don't let a big part of Your community in the darkness...
I would like to use Braw in my Ursa mini 4.6k because I have limited storage size and I would like to have access to raw settings.
Please...
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Vess Stoytchev

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Dec 18, 2018 4:56 pm

If you read through tge pages. BM support said that they are working on braw for the 4.6k. I can understand you guys. I recently came back to a project we shot on ProRes after shooting braw since it was released as a beta for the UMP. Man oh man do i prefer it :)

@timbutt2 intelligent way of bringing back the thread. :)
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Rolands Briedis

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostWed Dec 19, 2018 3:36 pm

Would like to hear the announcement of release :)

Vess Stoytchev wrote:If you read through tge pages. BM support said that they are working on braw for the 4.6k. I can understand you guys. I recently came back to a project we shot on ProRes after shooting braw since it was released as a beta for the UMP. Man oh man do i prefer it :)

@timbutt2 intelligent way of bringing back the thread. :)
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostThu Dec 20, 2018 7:46 am

„Many thanks for your question

Currently the BRAW update is only for URSA Mini PRO

It might come to URSA Mini 4.6k but not yet and we dont know if it is possible yet.“

This is what I‘ve been told by bmd support. Dont know what to make of it... It‘s a „maybe“ I guess...
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Kofa

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Jan 01, 2019 9:04 pm

BRAW is the future. Shot this on a (borrowed) UMP on one 256 GB CF card. A few shots from the Production 4K camera (about 5%).

Now owning the 4.6K, would love to see this come to this camera as well. But if it doesn't I'll still love my 4.6k like a stepchild.

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timbutt2

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostWed Jan 02, 2019 1:13 am

Now that it's 2019, I think it's safe to say that we can expect to see the update come in the next few months. My fingers are crossed is sooner.

One thing is certain and that is that my New Year's Resolution is to make more short films. I hope to do so on the URSA Mini 4.6K using Blackmagic RAW. We'll see. The first one will probably have to be CinemaDNG RAW if anything while we wait.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostWed Jan 02, 2019 10:54 am

Early 2019. Hmmm? That would be a great start to 2019. But personally I won't hold my breath for the update to arrive before March 2019. That's if! If there is a update for the Ursa 4.6k.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostFri Jan 04, 2019 6:14 pm

+1

I bought the URSA MINI 4.6 only ONE day before the surprise introduction of the PRO.

Hope BM will continue to support and provide updates the the UM46, as many users have concluded, NOT an old camera....

But if BM will not listen to their first and loyal customer base...they will turn their back on the company, sooner or later as there are alternatives!
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 2:52 pm

DorisLondon wrote:Early 2019. Hmmm? That would be a great start to 2019. But personally I won't hold my breath for the update to arrive before March 2019. That's if! If there is a update for the Ursa 4.6k.

I have another Splitt'n Clays for Charity event February 15th, so if BRAW is on the URSA Mini 4.6K by then I would be ecstatic. I shot last year in HD ProRes 422, but if I was able to shoot BRAW 12:1 for this year's event that would be amazing. Granted would still do HD Windowed for 120 fps, but the rest I would try at 4.6K BRAW 12:1.

I also have model shoots, a Valentines Day themed commercial shoot, and other shoots planned in January. So the sooner the better. Nonetheless, I'll keep working. And, I'll keep checking the support page in hope that the update comes.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 6:26 pm

Not to hijack the UM 4.6 thread, but since the Ursa Broadcast has similar (if not the same) processors as the UM Pro, and has DNG Raw, I wounder if BRaw will come to the Broadcast camera as well. As Mrkofa said BRaw is the future. Hope we see the updates coming soon... :roll:
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Rolands Briedis

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Jan 08, 2019 8:08 am

Yes, it is not about when it will be, but about the announcement. I can wait for an actual upgrade, but it would be nice to know officially- BRAW is coming to UM4.6k? Blackmagic don't let us behind.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Jan 08, 2019 12:52 pm

BM team appear to like the 14th of the month. E.g. 14th September ( beta 6 release ) 14th November ( 6 release ) But what month? lol.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Jan 08, 2019 1:17 pm

DorisLondon wrote:BM team appear to like the 14th of the month. E.g. 14th September ( beta 6 release ) 14th November ( 6 release ) But what month? lol.

If I woke up January 14th to the update I would be ecstatic! Why? I have a shoot that day for a client and I would totally do it all in BRAW on the UM4.6K.
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DorisLondon

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostMon Jan 14, 2019 3:15 pm

DorisLondon wrote:BM team appear to like the 14th of the month. E.g. 14th September ( beta 6 release ) 14th November ( 6 release ) But what month? lol.
"14th "Oh well .....I got that one wrong.lol. nevermind roll on the 14th February or March? April? lol.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostMon Jan 14, 2019 3:30 pm

DorisLondon wrote:
DorisLondon wrote:BM team appear to like the 14th of the month. E.g. 14th September ( beta 6 release ) 14th November ( 6 release ) But what month? lol.
"14th "Oh well .....I got that one wrong.lol. nevermind roll on the 14th February or March? April? lol.


That’s funny I said the same thing on another thread. Hopefully we didn’t jinx it lol
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostMon Jan 14, 2019 3:38 pm

DorisLondon wrote:BM team appear to like the 14th of the month. E.g. 14th September ( beta 6 release ) 14th November ( 6 release ) But what month? lol.


It has to do with Voodoo and Black Magic.
Being the day after the 13th, it is a sign of good luck if you have survived a Friday the 13th.

This should bode well for economic purposes. ;)
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostThu Jan 17, 2019 3:01 pm

The 14th came and went. And, I did my shoot with UHD ProRes 422 HQ and still loved how the footage came out. Would have loved doing the Valentines Day themed video with BRAW. Oh well. Maybe February 14th we'll get a Valentine's Day gift from Blackmagic with Blackmagic RAW for the UM4.6K.

Blackmagic Design, will you be my Valentine?
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostThu Jan 17, 2019 9:41 pm

My guess is if and if? Mini Ursa 4.6k gets BRaw and or Color science 4 ( in camera) it will arrive just before NAB 2019 (April)
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostFri Jan 18, 2019 11:31 am

DorisLondon wrote:My guess is if and if? Mini Ursa 4.6k gets BRaw and or Color science 4 ( in camera) it will arrive just before NAB 2019 (April)


I think so too. It wouldn't make a lot of sense to release just an update with BRAW for the 4.6K, since if you can say it like this - compared to the Pro an update is due regarding serveral aspects, not only BRAW. So why would the deliver BRAW alone but not Color Science 4.

This is in case they will do it and give the non-Pro Ursa Mini an upgrade to be fit for years to come. Keeping fingers crossed.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostFri Jan 18, 2019 6:04 pm

We need an emoji for “fingers crossed.”


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostFri Jan 18, 2019 6:37 pm

I think you will find, you need color science 4 to properly use BRAW, they go together as a single package, as it ddid on the UMPro. The Ursa Broadcast has Color 4, so it only needs the BRAW codec added.
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Stephen Fitzgerald

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSat Jan 19, 2019 7:14 am

Let's get on this BMD. It's been quite a while now, obviously it's your prerogative, but the community would really appreciate some transparency as to progress on this. Some companies do blog updates from the team, that would be a great addition here as your community is very passionate.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSat Jan 19, 2019 8:13 am

DorisLondon wrote:BM team appear to like the 14th of the month. E.g. 14th September ( beta 6 release ) 14th November ( 6 release ) But what month? lol.


July.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSat Jan 19, 2019 8:23 am

Stephen Fitzgerald wrote:Let's get on this BMD. It's been quite a while now, obviously it's your prerogative, but the community would really appreciate some transparency as to progress on this. Some companies do blog updates from the team, that would be a great addition here as your community is very passionate.

i was burned from this abitude, from NewTek that start a blog then for three years silence. I prefer Bmd that when is ready is ready but not count down. it's better for my heart :D
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSat Jan 19, 2019 8:26 am

i observe a strange thing, many people want more the shiny new tool like Braw, but few see that real new gems are ColorScience 4 and new debayering algorithm that give you better result with dng/braw/prores from sensor 4.6k, that reduce FPn and more...

actually you just have raw in different flavour, uncompressed/3:1/4:1 then is more interesting a new image quality, and a new color science (that you can obtain shooting raw and change raw developing on davinci).
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSat Jan 19, 2019 10:58 am

As a few here have already stated Color science 4 is available in Resolve software.

And yes I and many others would love to have the BRaw option for our Ursa Mini 4.6k cameras as this would really improve our editing work flow among other benefits, But honestly I love the image qualty of my current camera and wouldn't be to upset if BRaw wasn't possible. BM make fantastic products with overall excellent support IMO. So no real complaints from me.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSat Jan 19, 2019 6:08 pm

I may be wrong, but I thought BRAW and Colour Science 4 were joined at the hip on a camera. Having that as a selection option in Resolve for non-BRAW footage is only going to provide accurate colour if the camera utilized 4 as well. I know 4 can work and give you something useful, but it’s not going to be accurate unless the footage was shot with the same colour science.

I’d love to be wrong on this so fire away.


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSun Jan 20, 2019 3:13 am

rick.lang wrote:I may be wrong, but I thought BRAW and Colour Science 4 were joined at the hip on a camera. Having that as a selection option in Resolve for non-BRAW footage is only going to provide accurate colour if the camera utilized 4 as well. I know 4 can work and give you something useful, but it’s not going to be accurate unless the footage was shot with the same colour science.

I’d love to be wrong on this so fire away.
The color matrix (whether its v1 or v3 or v4) is applied when the sensor data is debayered. That's how you can get v4 color even today on the 4.6K Ursa Mini by shooting cDNG and then choosing to debayer to v4 in the raw tab of Resolve. There's no inaccuracy to the color. There will be a different look to the noise structure and fine detail between cDNG and BRAW (as examples in other threads have shown BRAW has less noise and less aliasing), but that difference doesn't affect the color matrix. If you shoot cDNG and debayer to v4 color, it is accurate.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSun Jan 20, 2019 7:22 pm

Okay, thanks, Jamie. I’m in the process of grading a few CDNG raw3.1 videos this week shot on the URSA Mini 4.6K and I’ll take a look at the colour difference applying colour science 3 and 4. I had tried that when 4 was first available in Resolve, but didn’t think it was valid so I stayed with 3.


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSun Jan 20, 2019 7:29 pm

I just wish we could have CSv4 for ProRes, I’m one of those people who even if I do sensor calibration I still get FPN, and I have to be very careful about the shadows. I’ve seen some shots with BRAW at 3200 on the UMP that has less FPN than my Ursa 4.6 at 800. Sucks.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSun Jan 20, 2019 9:07 pm

Stephen Fitzgerald wrote:I just wish we could have CSv4 for ProRes, I’m one of those people who even if I do sensor calibration I still get FPN, and I have to be very careful about the shadows. I’ve seen some shots with BRAW at 3200 on the UMP that has less FPN than my Ursa 4.6 at 800. Sucks.

The difference in noise character is not due to the v4 color matrix. It’s a result of the new debayer that was added as part of the BRAW update to the Ursa Mini Pro.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostMon Jan 21, 2019 3:15 am

Jamie LeJeune wrote:
Stephen Fitzgerald wrote:I just wish we could have CSv4 for ProRes, I’m one of those people who even if I do sensor calibration I still get FPN, and I have to be very careful about the shadows. I’ve seen some shots with BRAW at 3200 on the UMP that has less FPN than my Ursa 4.6 at 800. Sucks.

The difference in noise character is not due to the v4 color matrix. It’s a result of the new debayer that was added as part of the BRAW update to the Ursa Mini Pro.


Ahhh thanks Jamie, nice to have a better understanding of this.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostFri Feb 01, 2019 1:46 pm

Hmm? 14th February? Well... dont blame us for living in hope, month to month. lol.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostFri Feb 01, 2019 5:53 pm

BM Support recently said, the PC4K version is still in Beta, so this has to be finished before BM moves on to the UM 4.6. Here is hoping it is possible.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSat Feb 02, 2019 1:22 am

I’m hoping it hits at the same time as the Pocket 4K. Fingers are crossed.


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSat Feb 02, 2019 3:49 am

Valentine’s Day or late March to coincide with an email or video from Grant Petty.


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostMon Feb 04, 2019 11:10 pm

Well Firmware 6.1 came out today and it doesn't have BlackmagicRAW for either the UM4.6K nor the Pocket 4K. In fact, all the updates were for the Pocket 4K and yet, still no BRAW for the Pocket. Here's to hoping another update comes soon that brings BRAW to both cameras.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostMon Feb 04, 2019 11:18 pm

Yes, the Pocket and other BM camera’s first FW update were mostly corrective patches to improve camera performance or fix known bugs, then extra features were added in subsequent FW updates. The new Pocket 4K is following the same pattern. So new features (like BRaw) may get added in the next FW release.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostMon Feb 04, 2019 11:21 pm

Yeah, Denny the pattern seems to hold true.

Still, I was hoping in my heart when I saw the tweet pop up on my phone that BRAW would be here for the UM4.6K since I have a model video shoot tomorrow and then next week I'm shooting the next Splittn' Clays for Charity event:
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Feb 19, 2019 12:03 pm

Holly bump :)
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Feb 19, 2019 7:42 pm

I couldn't wait any longer and swapped my 4.6K for the Pro. I loved my 4.6.. I had it the second it started shipping and I used it a lot never hating anything about it.

BRAW was the second main reason to switch. If someone is going to pull the trigger on that, call Adorama Used Department, tell them you want to sell your URSA and purchase Pro from them right away and they'll give you a very nice deal. They give you shipment label → look at the camera → you pay the difference → now you can use BRAW (which is the only thing I use now since whole post-production environment is DaVinci anyway).
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Feb 19, 2019 7:57 pm

pprokhor wrote:I couldn't wait any longer and swapped my 4.6K for the Pro. I loved my 4.6.. I had it the second it started shipping and I used it a lot never hating anything about it.

BRAW was the second main reason to switch. If someone is going to pull the trigger on that, call Adorama Used Department, tell them you want to sell your URSA and purchase Pro from them right away and they'll give you a very nice deal. They give you shipment label → look at the camera → you pay the difference → now you can use BRAW (which is the only thing I use know since whole post-production environment is DaVinci anyway).

As much as I understand the swap from 4.6K to Pro, I still can't justify doing it since I've got a suspicion that a new URSA Mini will be announced at NAB this year and I'd rather wait for that. At this time it makes more sense to go from UM4.6K to UM-2019 than the Pro.

We'll find out in less than two months of course. Yet, I'm still going to hold out hope for the UM4.6K to get BRAW.
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2, URSA Mini 4.6K EF & Cinema Camera 2.5K EF
Computers: iMac 5K (Late 2015) & MacBook Pro Retina 15.4in (Mid 2018)
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DorisLondon

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Feb 19, 2019 8:31 pm

timbutt2 wrote:
pprokhor wrote:I couldn't wait any longer and swapped my 4.6K for the Pro. I loved my 4.6.. I had it the second it started shipping and I used it a lot never hating anything about it.

BRAW was the second main reason to switch. If someone is going to pull the trigger on that, call Adorama Used Department, tell them you want to sell your URSA and purchase Pro from them right away and they'll give you a very nice deal. They give you shipment label → look at the camera → you pay the difference → now you can use BRAW (which is the only thing I use know since whole post-production environment is DaVinci anyway).

As much as I understand the swap from 4.6K to Pro, I still can't justify doing it since I've got a suspicion that a new URSA Mini will be announced at NAB this year and I'd rather wait for that. At this time it makes more sense to go from UM4.6K to UM-2019 than the Pro.

We'll find out in less than two months of course. Yet, I'm still going to hold out hope for the UM4.6K to get BRAW.
Yep I reckon that's two good summaries guys. Arguments for both really.
Personally I don't have a budget for a new camera or a trade in . So I'll hold out for BRaw coming to the Ursa mini 4.6k.
If it doesn't come just before NAB 2019 or during or indeed shortly afterwards, it won't be coming at all! IMO.
So if it does receive that update it will most definitely be it's last significant improvement until it finally fades into obsolescence over the coming years. Still a great camera though.

Doris.
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Chris Shivers

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Feb 19, 2019 8:39 pm

Don’t worry the ursa mini 4.6k will get Braw it’s has the same sensor and everything as the pro, except the pro has more pro features like more external buttons. First the P4K will get it, then it will roll out for other cameras that can support it
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michaeldhead

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Feb 19, 2019 9:44 pm

Chris Shivers wrote:Don’t worry the ursa mini 4.6k will get Braw it’s has the same sensor and everything as the pro, except the pro has more pro features like more external buttons. First the P4K will get it, then it will roll out for other cameras that can support it


I hope you're right, but there is a chance the actual computer components of the camera (CPU, RAM) might not be able to handle the decoding requirements. Again, I hope it does come, but it is something to keep in mind.
Michael D Head
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Oyvind Fiksdal

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Feb 19, 2019 10:33 pm

pprokhor wrote:I couldn't wait any longer and swapped my 4.6K for the Pro.


Quite sure there is a bit of strategy in this. BRAW is a big hit already, and the only way to be able to use BRAW, without a beta, is by purchasing a URSA Pro. You are a living proof of that. BM probably sell a bunch of Pro's because of BRAW alone.

Hopefully we see more of BRAW in April, but if they announce another camera with BRAW… Well than I believe it’s quite a low chance they role out BRAW to older cameras at the same time, shadowing their new product. Hopefully they bang us with the news that several of the already existing cameras get BRAW “here is the link for the update”. That would be great and quite black magic of them. I almost hope there will no introduction of a new camera, for that reason alone.
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DorisLondon

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostWed Feb 20, 2019 9:14 am

Oyvind Fiksdal wrote:
pprokhor wrote:I couldn't wait any longer and swapped my 4.6K for the Pro.


Hopefully we see more of BRAW in April, but if they announce another camera with BRAW… Well than I believe it’s quite a low chance they role out BRAW to older cameras at the same time, shadowing their new product. Hopefully they bang us with the news that several of the already existing cameras get BRAW “here is the link for the update”. That would be great and quite black magic of them. I almost hope there will no introduction of a new camera, for that reason alone.
Hmm. A Mass! Software update!! Sounds a wonderful thing..lol. it also sounds like one of those fairly tale endings.lol.
" I do believe, I do believe in fairies"
haha. But who knows?
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