Atem Visca camera control

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Xtreemtec

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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostThu Mar 07, 2019 4:24 pm

Are you running the atem in 4K or HD?

In HD you can take 1 Program SDI output from the mixer. Go to the SDI shield inside the PT Joystick controller. The SDI output of the joystick into an SDI splitter. And those outputs go to your cameras.

This will allows CCU, Tally, intercom etc to the cameras.. And PT control from the joystick.

But if you are running 4K this is not an option. Because that shield does not support 4K. And the HD downconverted output on the Atems do not support CCU and Tally. :roll:
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostThu Mar 07, 2019 5:17 pm

Daniel.

4K, HD is depending on the job, but the ATEM can convert so I could just run the PTZ on HD if I had to, the main output from the ATEM would be 4K anyways. (this is why I ask if I can have the arduino on one camera only, example on camera 1 and then have the arduino on ATEM SDI out 1 and then to the camera from the arduino)

If the arduino only works in HD, and if I must use the main pgm out to the joystick then it is a no go...

also I must use the PGM out to my joystick and from there split the signal going to the cam right?

I have to ask:
When you say "program output" is it only the PGM or all 8 outputs?

Sorry but not really clear for me :-/
I have my friend who build a lot of stuff using arduino, he can build me a controller no probs but I need to know I can get it to work as I wanted. We checked the code and there are absolute values so even position presets and macros can bu added using arduino he said, but whats the point if it must use the main PGM out, then I can not use 4K at all. Thats why I ask and ask and ask (and sometimes sounds stupid :-))
_______________________

Hello Kim, thanks for taking part in the discussion.

Basically I just want a joystick to control pan/tilt as the trackball sucks, I don't want to buy visca controller to do this separately, I just want as simple as possible be able to use pan/tilt smoothly
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostThu Mar 07, 2019 6:23 pm

If you are running your Atem in 4K this whole discussion is useless. Because the shield does not support 4K.

And the only way to run PTZ from the SDI and have smooth control is by 3rd party hardware. Which all use the SDI shield which only does HD.

So or you go run in HD. Or you get more hardware and run an ethernet cable along the SDi return cable to run the system on Visca / Visca IP from a Visca Joystick controller.
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostThu Mar 07, 2019 6:32 pm

Hmm I get that Daniel, still noone seems to want to clearify my PGM out question.

So you are telling me that I must use the PGM out, the SDI (the return for each of the 8 sources/cams) will not work for an individual arduino?
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostThu Mar 07, 2019 6:54 pm

I thought I had 2 options, illustrated them both as I feel I'm bad on explaining. Sorry :-/

Does these 2 option work or only 1 or 2?
Attachments
PGM.jpg
option 1
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IO.jpg
option 2
IO.jpg (358.95 KiB) Viewed 24493 times
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostThu Mar 07, 2019 7:03 pm

Grammatically your English is good.. But the sentence buildup is somewhat hard to follow. ;)

Yes both will work as illustrated. And the setup from illustration 1 can also be used with 1 of those outputs above the inputs. These 8 all send out the same signal as the PGM output :) So actually you have 9 PGM outputs. ;)
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostThu Mar 07, 2019 7:21 pm

Daniel, you are Legend!

Thanks! Then I can build my controller :-) This was my only fear that it wouldn't work, yes I know I would need one joystick for each kamera, but I can live with that to be honest.

Looking at the arduino implementation presets and marcos could be possible, also adding slider to be able to set pan & tilt & zoom speed as well according to my friend, but we'll see what we get. :-D
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostThu Mar 07, 2019 7:27 pm

Why not add a few buttons to select the PT head you want to control.. Sounds simpler then 8 joysticks :lol:
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostThu Mar 07, 2019 7:38 pm

Also, to do to what Daniel is saying, trying to control several remote cameras and run the ATEM for switching is asking a lot of a single operator. Having worked on several multi-cam remote operations, yiu really need a second operator to the the “camera person” running the remotes via a dedicated panel, and allow the ATEM operator do the switching and graphics as required. Having tried both, the two person setup is the one that really works well.
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostThu Mar 07, 2019 7:57 pm

Daniel, to be able to use those buttons to chose camera, doesn't that require option 1 of my pictures, just as Kim mentioned?

Denny, i know but yeah, need this anyway :-) my issie to not use other controller is that all of this is wireless as it is now, dont want to add cables due to visca
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostThu Mar 07, 2019 8:07 pm

Kim, I need 2 or maybe 3 units, so thats why I don't mind :-)
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostThu Mar 07, 2019 8:11 pm

All 9 ports have the same data.. So also all CCU data for all 8 cameras. ;) It does not matter were you plug in the SDI distribution. as long as it 1 of those 9 ports.

So you only need 1 Shield. 1 Joystick and a few buttons for the amount of cameras you need.
And connect all cameras to the SDI distribution.

The shield can control up to 20 / 99 cameras :D
Option1PGM.jpg
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostThu Mar 07, 2019 8:59 pm

That's even better Daniel! Thanks for clearing things up :-)




Kim, i think something as this

8 camera choices (as the ATEM TSP4K offer 8 inputs)
Joystick X Y Z (=PTZ)
6 presets
6 macros
slider for pan-speed
slider for tilt-speed
slider for zoom-speed
on/off autofocus
on/off autoiris
slider for focus
slider for iris
indicator for max positions for PTZ

If possible we might go with motorized faders (position memory) so that we can use it as one for several units, that would be perfect. The choice of slider is because it will work as a simple indicator of min/max positioning, so motorized faders would be ideal to be able to use min/max positioning, with knobs that wouldn't work :-)
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostThu Mar 07, 2019 9:08 pm

Good input Kim, thanks!

Levels is a good idea, really. Will keep in mind for sure :-)

Btw, I checked your site, liked the gimbal cyrp45, an older one on the site I liked really much, bit pricy but really nice.
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostFri Mar 08, 2019 11:34 pm

Hello, ive been reading up and have a question. Im trying to use the bmd atem with an 1 m/e panel to control the atem and the cameras over visca. The cameras im looking at have rs-422 visca over ip. If you convert the db 9 cable on the back of the atem to rj 45 would the visca commands carry through to the cameras?

Ive trying to eliminate the need over getting a separate controller just for the cameras.
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostSat Mar 09, 2019 10:59 am

kykoibrahim wrote:Hello, ive been reading up and have a question. Im trying to use the bmd atem with an 1 m/e panel to control the atem and the cameras over visca. The cameras im looking at have rs-422 visca over ip. If you convert the db 9 cable on the back of the atem to rj 45 would the visca commands carry through to the cameras?

Ive trying to eliminate the need over getting a separate controller just for the cameras.

I already replied in a PM which you asked the same question!
But this Sony SRG360she has a Visca port. Only not screw terminals but UTP connection for visca 422.

Image

I guess if you look at the manual you will find a diagram on how to connect this to the BR-300 remotes with screw terminals. ;)
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostTue Mar 12, 2019 12:24 pm

Had a long discussion with bmd and skaarhoj.

"Here are two examples below of controllers that work with our systems, Skaarhoj use the same VISCA protocol as the ATEM which you can connect via ethernet and control the camera:
https://www.skaarhoj.com/products/ptz-fly/
https://www.skaarhoj.com/products/ptz-pro/"

So this solution gives ptz controll through ethernet according to them both, i.e. visca over ethernet :-)
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostTue Mar 12, 2019 4:23 pm

So in theory if i create a DB9 cable that pins out to an rj45 cable, i can then connect that to a switch and connect 4 ptz cameras and control each from the atem? My confusion comes from most RS422 cameras have a daisychain port specifically to add the next camera. and i was getting confused from the SRG360SHE camera, because it had a section for control using a single camera and a section for multiple camera and only the multi camera says anything about UDP commands.
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostTue Mar 12, 2019 4:57 pm

Kyko as far as I know the remote is an output but I know more soon, I've ordered a rs422 cable this morning :-)

Edit: was to fast lol

But as you say if you use it as output it should work, from what I've read you'll have full control
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostTue Mar 12, 2019 5:08 pm

I appreciate the help and i await your findings.
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostTue Mar 12, 2019 6:23 pm

Since this is obviously confusing, I thought I would offer some information. This camera does not have an RS-422 daisy chain loop so only one camera can be connected to the ATEM at a time. You would wire the DE-9 to the RJ-45 with careful attention to Tx to Rx and back. You can use a DE-9 switch or RJ-45 manual switch once you get it working directly. The important thing, this is not Ethernet. It is RS-422 so no Ethernet switching or communication. Once you connect one camera to the ATEM using the VISCA Detect, you can switch between cameras externally without having to re detect again. The ATEM is forgiving in that way. So to the ATEM, only one camera is connected. Hopefully this makes sense.

Regards, Gary
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostTue Mar 12, 2019 6:27 pm

Hi Garry, if you could shed some light on the visca over ethernet it would also help a lot of people here, now and for the future :-)
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostTue Mar 12, 2019 6:29 pm

So does that mean i cant switch between, lets say 4 cameras, on the atem hardware directly? I understand that since this is RS-422 i would just use a dumb switch thats not linked to any networks or anything. My question is would i have to plug in each camera when i need to control it or would the atem know which camera to control if all 4 are connected to a hub/switch with the atem?
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostTue Mar 12, 2019 8:31 pm

Totally understand. The ATEM supports up to 7 VISCA cameras that are wired in a daisy chain loop. Meaning one cable from the ATEM to the first camera RS-422 Input. That camera must have an RS-422 Output which will loop to additional cameras in the same way. Most VISCA cameras are like this. The above mentioned camera does not have an RS-422 output so no more cameras may be connected in this way. To the ATEM, there will only be one camera wired. So if you have several cameras like this you will need to switch between them externally to the ATEM. You can use a mechanical switch to do this but that is the only method that can be used in this case.

There was a question above about IP VISCA. So we do not support this method. Only RS-422. Many PTZ cameras have several methods to control including VISCA over RS-422 and IP. Our ATEM only works with the RS-422.

Regards, Gary
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostTue Mar 12, 2019 8:36 pm

Hi again Gary, thanks for your speedy reply.

I have been in contact with support regarding this and they claimed that "Skaarhoj use the same VISCA protocol as the ATEM which you can connect via ethernet and control the camera"

So this is not accurate?
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostTue Mar 12, 2019 10:12 pm

In that case, is it possible, or has any one used a serial to ip server device....

https://www.moxa.com/en/products/indust ... 00a-series

Ive read an article were this was kind off a attempted but i couldnt follow the technical aspects that well.

http://help.rossvideo.com/carbonite-dev ... /Sony.html
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostTue Mar 12, 2019 10:36 pm

Hello Istvan. I cannot see specifically what you are linking to. Skaarhoj are usually right about what they can do however. The ATEM can only control PTZ cameras using the VISCA RS-422 or using our SDI PTZ protocol which in the end is VISCA over RS-422 at the camera. The ATEM can be controled by IP using the SDK which could ultimately do PTZ of supported devices. But I'm not sure what your query is about connections.

Hello Kim. Yes, the Blackmagic Micro Studio has support for SDI PTZ. The commands are sent via the ATEM to the camera. The camera has a 9 pin RS-422 port which would be plugged into a PTZ head.

I'm sure there will be more questions.

Regards, Gary
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostTue Mar 12, 2019 11:38 pm

Gary Adams wrote:Hello Istvan. I cannot see specifically what you are linking to. Skaarhoj are usually right about what they can do however. The ATEM can only control PTZ cameras using the VISCA RS-422 or using our SDI PTZ protocol which in the end is VISCA over RS-422 at the camera. The ATEM can be controled by IP using the SDK which could ultimately do PTZ of supported devices. But I'm not sure what your query is about connections.



Really appreciate your answers Gary, and I will try to explain further. Skaarhoj you mention has more then 10 configs for their PTZ Pro, 2 of them was in the picture above, BMD-ATEM & BMD-SDI. As they state full Pan/Tilt control from their controller and it use ethernet to connect there must be some available code/language they used to get this connection to work, it seems as you mention that it would be "standard" visca commands over sdi to the cameras expansionport and out to the PT-head (rushworks model1). In the API it is described how you call on function and/or parameters like zoom, focus and such and I have learned how to control it through the computer, but there is nothing in there specifically for PT actions, I have trouble to figure it out atm. I will dig in to the visca protocol library asap to find answers but it has not as obvious as the rest of the CCU yet.
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostWed Mar 13, 2019 9:48 am

Hi Kim, I downloaded your software to have a look, and it looks great tbh. You've added the only thing I miss from ATEM CCU, the pan/tilt controll in the software (amazing how they could let that slide given the fast that the trackball is really a pain in the ass to use for smoth PT movement)

To get this working do I need any other device from you tå handle the communication to the Atem? Please give some details regarding this :-)

Edit: found the manual and read up a bit, it's looking lite a good option this SW, if it is possible to midimap to a hardware controller then we have a good option for a decent pricetag :-)

Here is the link for everyone else for a speedy access :-)
https://github.com/LeViteZer-Oy/LeViteZ ... manual.pdf
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostWed Mar 13, 2019 6:07 pm

kykoibrahim wrote:In that case, is it possible, or has any one used a serial to ip server device....

https://www.moxa.com/en/products/indust ... 00a-series

Ive read an article were this was kind off a attempted but i couldnt follow the technical aspects that well.

We use a similar unit, the Moxa DE-311. The unit can configure one of several ways...you can make it a remote serial port to a PC putting a LAN in between the computer and moxa, or you can use them in pairs to create a tunnel over the LAN to pass serial data.

The second way is how we use them mostly. We have a PTZ controller that uses RS-485 near the switcher, a fiber system connecting the control room to where the cameras are, and of course the PTZ cameras at the end of the fiber. Our fiber system has managed switches at each end, and has VLANs for PTZ control, Dante, Internet, etc. One Moxa converts the RS-485 from the controller and connects to a VLAN in the control room. The other Moxa plugs in the other end of the VLAN by the cameras, and provides RS-485 to the data port on the cameras. This setup lets us put miles of fiber in the middle and still have camera control.
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostThu Mar 21, 2019 1:53 am

Any updates on this? I'm trying to connect a JVC PTZ KY 100 and it won't work.
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostFri Mar 22, 2019 3:38 pm

Hello Ella. A quick look at the specifications and manual, I don't see support for VISCA PTZ protocol which is necessary for control by the ATEM Panels.

Regards, Gary
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostWed Apr 10, 2019 1:25 pm

Hello,
I have made a rs-422 cable for my BRC-H700 SONY camera and i can control successfully zoom in or out.
In pan-tilt i have a problem. Nothing happens when i use the joystick for up-down or left-right... When I make a diagonal movement with the joystick, the camera responds correctly but it will never stop when i leave the joystick... Camera moves until the end... My joystick works fine for up down left right when i enter to camera menu with the remote....
Can anybody help me? I have test that with 1 M/E advanced panel and atem 2M/E 4k production studio also in television studio HD.
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostWed Apr 10, 2019 5:58 pm

That is very weird behavior.. Because you are able to navigate the camera menu correct the right commands are send.. That would almost indicate there is something wrong with the camera interpretation of the protocol.. :roll:
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostThu Apr 11, 2019 8:19 am

Xtreemtec wrote:That is very weird behavior.. Because you are able to navigate the camera menu correct the right commands are send.. That would almost indicate there is something wrong with the camera interpretation of the protocol.. :roll:


when i connect the camera to original remote control, works fine.... it seems like the atem not send the right position only the direction.
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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostSun Apr 14, 2019 1:57 pm

I found out about this gem today by accidental.. :P

Sorry BMD it's from a competitor company. But i think it would partner up nice with a Micro Studio camera.
I think it is too small / lightweight to hook up a Ursa Mini with broadcast lens to it..
So let's hope for that Micro Studio 12G version. 8-) 8-)

What appeals me is that it takes Visca and Visca IP commands. So that is actually great. And i guess it will be much cheaper as the Vinten Vantage.

The price of this PTR-10 is still not available.. But i hope they will tell us soon as it will be available in Q2 2019. :)

[*] 340° Pan ranch, 90° tilt ranch
[*] Support both SDI and HDMI signal input and output
[*] Special design for block cameras with power supported
[*] Tally light built-in, great design for Live event
[*] Controlled by IR controller, VISCA protocol controller, Datavideo RMC-180 Camera controller, RMC-280 TVS controller and also compatible with serial, Ethernet (DVIP).
[*] 12~18V input, power up both the Robotic and Camera on the top
[*] DVIP / RS-422 control



Image
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Vinten Vantage>
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Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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Daniel Binder

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Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostSun Apr 14, 2019 3:30 pm

Hi Daniel,

are you certain about VISCA over IP? AFAIK Datavideo uses their own proprietary DVIP protocol (which is likely based on VISCA over IP), but I have not gotten any reliable information from them so far wether it would work with other VISCA over IP controllers. VISCA over RS422 should work though.

At some point last year, I inquired about their box cameras and wether they would be controllable by a Sony RM-IP500 (as VISCA over IP). Answer then was no.

I have the feeling, they really want you to buy their own controller.

Cheers,
Daniel
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Guy Wolfe

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  • Real Name: Guy Taylor

Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostTue Apr 23, 2019 12:52 am

Hi there,

I realize this is a off topic but it's the closest I could find looking around!

Does anyone here have any info on the Panasonic Control-M 5 pin connectors and protocols? I can't seem to any anywhere...

Thanks
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Xtreemtec

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  • Location: The Netherlands

Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostTue Apr 23, 2019 8:39 am

Guy Wolfe wrote:Hi there,

I realize this is a off topic but it's the closest I could find looking around!

Does anyone here have any info on the Panasonic Control-M 5 pin connectors and protocols? I can't seem to any anywhere...

Thanks

It is not even close.. :lol: But 1 google search and the first search result lead me to someone that has documented it. ;) https://www.avitresearch.co.uk/ctrl-m.htm
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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Guy Wolfe

  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:28 am
  • Real Name: Guy Taylor

Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostThu Apr 25, 2019 7:26 am

Hi thanks.
I am a dufus, all I could find was a product they were selling.
Thanks for the link :)
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Mike Parkinson

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  • Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:36 pm

Re: Atem Visca camera control

PostFri May 01, 2020 12:15 pm

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread but I am tearing my hair out trying to get our ATEM Television Studio HD Pro to function as a PTZ controller for a Sony BRC-H700 via the DB9 socket on the ATEM.

VISCA is enabled, the camera and ATEM are both set to 9600 baud rate and the camera is set for auto addressing - but nothing.

I've following the pin-out per the current BM PTZ control manual (dated April 2018 - I'll try to attach a snip) which is different both to the previous version and to the version which Daniel posted earlier on in this thread. So I am about as confused as I ever hope to be...

Before I stab myself in the eye with the soldering iron, could someone confirm the correct pin-out for me?

Many thanks!

Screenshot 2020-05-01 at 13.14.35.png
Screenshot 2020-05-01 at 13.14.35.png (195.85 KiB) Viewed 2472 times
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