braw setup between project and clip settings, not same

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carlomacchiavello

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braw setup between project and clip settings, not same

PostThu May 16, 2019 11:44 am

today i found a strange (for me) issue.
input : Braw from pocket 4k
if i setup rec709 RCM or Aces i found same issue
if in camera raw i setup Decode using Project or clip (with same setup) i reiceve very different result.

aces 1.1 - clip setup.jpeg
aces 1.1 - clip setup.jpeg (233.72 KiB) Viewed 2691 times

aces 1.1 - project setup.jpeg
aces 1.1 - project setup.jpeg (230.25 KiB) Viewed 2691 times

if aces is active should disable interpretation between project and clip be cause IDT should normalize clip.

to me the only correct interpretation is rec709 clip setup, but i would avoid to setup manually every clip in that way, i read on manual about camera raw but not found some info to justify that difference.
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rec709 davinci managed - clip setup.jpeg
rec709 davinci managed - clip setup.jpeg (222.15 KiB) Viewed 2691 times
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: braw setup between project and clip settings, not same

PostThu May 16, 2019 11:45 am

rec709 davinci managed - project setup.jpeg
rec709 davinci managed - project setup.jpeg (221.72 KiB) Viewed 2539 times
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John Paines

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Re: braw setup between project and clip settings, not same

PostThu May 16, 2019 12:26 pm

As far as I can tell, adding the decode and "clip" option seems to display a more log-like result, as opposed to the "project" default in both fields which looks more like a "normalized" version.

However, the performance here isn't consistent, and there may also be differences between 15 and 16. Sometimes changing these fields creates this difference, and sometimes it doesn't. If there's good news, it's that the difference in display doesn't appear to be destructive.

The relationship between raw project defaults and the raw tab really needs work ... it's not predictable or intuitive.
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: braw setup between project and clip settings, not same

PostThu May 16, 2019 12:55 pm

Difference between ACES and RCM is logical, even if it is decoded to the same colorspace. ACES applies a picture rendering which changes the image.

Why project and clip decoding are different in RCM... it looks like there is exposure difference of one stop or so. One possible cause is that in project level, it is decoded with different ISO value. Why, don't know. But you can try, change the iso in clip settings to 800 and see if you get a match with project level decode.
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carlomacchiavello

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braw setup between project and clip settings, not same

PostThu May 16, 2019 1:10 pm

Sorry if I express in wrong way. I know that RCM and Aces is different, but what I cannot understand is the difference of contrast and shifting of picture between project and clip settings in both of color management.

Usually Aces is a bit darker and contrasted than picture but not so much.
I managed without big difficult braw and cdng of Ursa Mini Pro but with pocket4k I had some difficult to use directly instead of manage every clips (ones of reasons to use aces).


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John Paines

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Re: braw setup between project and clip settings, not same

PostThu May 16, 2019 1:29 pm

What I think is happening is, when "project" is selected the system defaults to the highest ISO in the ISO range. When "clip" is selected, the actual recorded ISO is used.

So, on the BMPCC 4K, with its two ranges of 100-1000 and 1250-6400, clips appear to be defaulting to either 1000 or 6400, when "project" is selected. "Clip" restores the *actual* ISO, which could be as much as a few stops lower, depending on what the actual shooting ISO was.
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: braw setup between project and clip settings, not same

PostSat May 18, 2019 9:48 am

John Paines wrote:What I think is happening is, when "project" is selected the system defaults to the highest ISO in the ISO range. When "clip" is selected, the actual recorded ISO is used.

So, on the BMPCC 4K, with its two ranges of 100-1000 and 1250-6400, clips appear to be defaulting to either 1000 or 6400, when "project" is selected. "Clip" restores the *actual* ISO, which could be as much as a few stops lower, depending on what the actual shooting ISO was.


i did more test, you are right, also if.... i would like to know if is a bug or a feature, if i choose and in a metadata of file i had some iso (100) i not want to see in timeline an higher iso (1000), also if i choosed to use project setup, be cause color space could a fixed choise along clips, but iso no... be cause it's raw... i shoot in raw to change iso, and gamma mapping, if i want to work with fixed iso i shoot in prores not in raw (it's a joke, i prefer the flexibility of raw).
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Nick Lear

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Re: braw setup between project and clip settings, not same

PostMon Dec 02, 2019 1:45 pm

Have any of you gained any insights on this since this last post? I have come across this issue today.

Shot BRAW files on Pocket 4K.

Project Settings > Camera RAW:

RAW Profile: Blackmagic RAW
Decode qual: full
Decode using: Project
WB: As Shot
CS: BMD
Gamma: BMD FILM
Highlight recovery checked (which means it's on for all the clips which is great and the main reason I wanted to do this)


One side issue is that when I go back in to check this, it seems to have jumped back to the default Arri RAW which is strange, but that's not my main issue.

Main problem is this means it's using ISO 1000 (as per John's explanation above - and I can easily see it is using 1000), unless I take the time to change each and every clip in the RAW tab in the Color page. There is no option to use the ISO from the metadata (I realise it's not locked in with BRAW, but the DP has at least got an ISO setting to give the right exposure, so it saves time to use it)

At least I do save a little time with this, as when I click "Decode using: Clip" in the Color>Camera RAW tab, it already has highlight recovery checked and the correct WB, CS and gamma settings + I can edit the ISO if needed. If I instead choose "Decode using: Camera metadata", it hasn't checked highlight recovery and I can't edit the settings. It does get the DP's ISO here though.

What I want to do is have the metadata ISO come through in the project settings, but that doesn't seem to be an option.
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Jim Simon

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Re: braw setup between project and clip settings, not same

PostMon Dec 02, 2019 3:59 pm

Nick Lear wrote:it seems to have jumped back to the default Arri RAW


That top pulldown is just a list of the various RAW formats that Resolve can work with. When you choose a format, you can change it's default settings.

They're sorted alphabetically, and always opens to the first on the list.
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Nick Lear

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Re: braw setup between project and clip settings, not same

PostTue Dec 03, 2019 6:29 am

Ah OK thanks Jim, that clears up my side issue.

Haven't found anyway to get highlight recovery on for all clips and use the metadata ISO. It feels like it should be as simple as it being an option in the final "Use Camera Metadata" section of the settings, which it is for RED but no others. Would be interested as to why it's not there.

EDIT: For me, updating to 16.1.1 has solved this - so presumably it was a bug and has been fixed.
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