Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

I've read through all 25 pages of this thread so far and have been searching through other sites and forums as well, but haven't yet been able to answer this question definitively:

Can anyone provide specific details about how the audio works in the pocket camera?

It would be stellar if more precise language could be used in the marketing materials. We've got all manners of specificity where the optics and video codecs are concerned, but there's no mention of what happens to the audio going through that external jack on its way to the storage card. I would love to know more!

Perhaps most people are just jumping to the conclusion that given it's "mirrorless" form factor and DSLR competitive price range, that we'll all be shooting with the pocket camera using sync sound and an external Zoom or Tascam (with the camera audio just a lossy compressed backup that will primarily be used for timecode purposes by Final Cut or Plural Eyes). I don't want to jump to that conclusion though, I'd like to know for sure.

There's no point in complaining if the camera forces AC3 or something similar like most similarly priced cameras do, that's not my intention and I'm super excited about this thing...but what if, just imagine, Blackmagic allowed this little gadget to record uncompressed LPCM? If that were possible, this could become the ultimate "stealth" run-and-gun camera for documentarians.

Great question, I think that's something we've all overlooked. I know I'm planning to just run a Rode Videomic directly into the cam. I just assumed the codec would be decent, didn't really put any thought into that.

Christine or JB, got any info on the audio?

Must. Resist. Temptation. To. Screw it! You mean "it's impossible that the camera will ship THIS YEAR!" Sorry had to be done.

So, "spike", how much will you pay each of us if the camera ships before Dec. 31, 2013?

Wait, did I just inadvertently promise (again) to eat one of Marc Hood's shoes if the camera doesn't ship until after New Years Day 2014? Oops!

P.S.: Which camera are we talking about now, I'm losing track ...



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What camera? I would bet eating Marc's shoe on ANY BMD product not being on time no matter what it is.

So far I like everything I have heard or seen about the pocket camera. I want one to take diving, but I want to be able to shoot establishing shots of wrecks so will need a WIDE lens, around 100 degrees AOV would be good. Anyway I think BMD should make sure that they have a housing manufacturer as one of their beta testers. And I would like to suggest Edward Lai of Nauticam if he will do it. Please.

Do you plan for buttons on the underwater housing to control focus via LANC?
Remember: No autofocus.

I would be quite happy with manual focus.

I would be quite happy with manual focus.

But how do you reach it under water?

Mechanical gears

I've read through all 25 pages of this thread so far and have been searching through other sites and forums as well, but haven't yet been able to answer this question definitively:

Can anyone provide specific details about how the audio works in the pocket camera?

It would be stellar if more precise language could be used in the marketing materials. We've got all manners of specificity where the optics and video codecs are concerned, but there's no mention of what happens to the audio going through that external jack on its way to the storage card. I would love to know more!

Perhaps most people are just jumping to the conclusion that given it's "mirrorless" form factor and DSLR competitive price range, that we'll all be shooting with the pocket camera using sync sound and an external Zoom or Tascam (with the camera audio just a lossy compressed backup that will primarily be used for timecode purposes by Final Cut or Plural Eyes). I don't want to jump to that conclusion though, I'd like to know for sure.

There's no point in complaining if the camera forces AC3 or something similar like most similarly priced cameras do, that's not my intention and I'm super excited about this thing...but what if, just imagine, Blackmagic allowed this little gadget to record uncompressed LPCM? If that were possible, this could become the ultimate "stealth" run-and-gun camera for documentarians.

Great question, I think that's something we've all overlooked. I know I'm planning to just run a Rode Videomic directly into the cam. I just assumed the codec would be decent, didn't really put any thought into that.

Christine or JB, got any info on the audio?

Hello,

I would also like to hear a little more details about the audio part;
especially if 4-channel audio recording would be possible.

With the 3,5mm jack in mind,
I would be grateful for 4-channel audio recording,
so the internal mics are always recorded as backup,
in case of bad contact or someone forgot to recharge the battery of the external mic...
(And since there aren't audio VU meters yet, this could be easily overseen )

Best regards,
Bernhard

An interesting option for BMPCC. It would be a specific speedbooster. To cover a S16 sensor. Increasing more than one f stop. In this particular case.

Una opcion interesante para la BMPCC. Sería un speedbooster especifico. Para cubrir un sensor S16. Incrementando mas de un f stop. En este caso concreto.

I've read through all 25 pages of this thread so far and have been searching through other sites and forums as well, but haven't yet been able to answer this question definitively:

Can anyone provide specific details about how the audio works in the pocket camera?

It would be stellar if more precise language could be used in the marketing materials. We've got all manners of specificity where the optics and video codecs are concerned, but there's no mention of what happens to the audio going through that external jack on its way to the storage card. I would love to know more!

Perhaps most people are just jumping to the conclusion that given it's "mirrorless" form factor and DSLR competitive price range, that we'll all be shooting with the pocket camera using sync sound and an external Zoom or Tascam (with the camera audio just a lossy compressed backup that will primarily be used for timecode purposes by Final Cut or Plural Eyes). I don't want to jump to that conclusion though, I'd like to know for sure.

There's no point in complaining if the camera forces AC3 or something similar like most similarly priced cameras do, that's not my intention and I'm super excited about this thing...but what if, just imagine, Blackmagic allowed this little gadget to record uncompressed LPCM? If that were possible, this could become the ultimate "stealth" run-and-gun camera for documentarians.

Great question, I think that's something we've all overlooked. I know I'm planning to just run a Rode Videomic directly into the cam. I just assumed the codec would be decent, didn't really put any thought into that.

Christine or JB, got any info on the audio?

Apparently audio has not yet been implemented with the Pocket Cam

Found in the comments on JBs Pocket Cam Footage vid:

https://vimeo.com/64693161#comment_9166090

I've read through all 25 pages of this thread so far and have been searching through other sites and forums as well, but haven't yet been able to answer this question definitively:

Can anyone provide specific details about how the audio works in the pocket camera?

It would be stellar if more precise language could be used in the marketing materials. We've got all manners of specificity where the optics and video codecs are concerned, but there's no mention of what happens to the audio going through that external jack on its way to the storage card. I would love to know more!

Perhaps most people are just jumping to the conclusion that given it's "mirrorless" form factor and DSLR competitive price range, that we'll all be shooting with the pocket camera using sync sound and an external Zoom or Tascam (with the camera audio just a lossy compressed backup that will primarily be used for timecode purposes by Final Cut or Plural Eyes). I don't want to jump to that conclusion though, I'd like to know for sure.

There's no point in complaining if the camera forces AC3 or something similar like most similarly priced cameras do, that's not my intention and I'm super excited about this thing...but what if, just imagine, Blackmagic allowed this little gadget to record uncompressed LPCM? If that were possible, this could become the ultimate "stealth" run-and-gun camera for documentarians.

Great question, I think that's something we've all overlooked. I know I'm planning to just run a Rode Videomic directly into the cam. I just assumed the codec would be decent, didn't really put any thought into that.

Christine or JB, got any info on the audio?

Apparently audio has not yet been implemented with the Pocket Cam

Found in the comments on JBs Pocket Cam Footage vid:

https://vimeo.com/64693161#comment_9166090

Ah, thanks for that!

What are the odds DM will release a pocket camera with a Canon EF mount?

I come from the Canon 7D family with a mix of Canon and Nikon glass (with adapters), and I'd prefer to not have to buy all new adapters.

I was saving up for the BMCC, and then the BMPCC was announced, which is solves a lot of issues for me (namely, computer software and hardware), but at the same time, it introduced:

1. A new battery (Nikon EL20)
2. A new lens mount (MFT)

I also have Panasonic CGR-D54 and Canon LP-E6 bricks, but I'm sure an external adapter will come along, since the specs seem workable. Id' rather not have to go and buy a whole new set of V-mounts bricks and chargers.

Thanks a lot,
Val Gameiro
Writer/Director/Filmmaker
Austin, Texas

What are the odds DM will release a pocket camera with a Canon EF mount? ...

My guess is the odds are close to zero. But that's just a guess.

It's far more likely that BMD will someday release a firmware update for the BMCC-EF & BMCC-MFT cameras that enables ProRes HQ @ 2.5K, and lossless compressed RAW @ 2.5K & 1080p. BMD strongly hinted (but did not promise) about this possibility a few weeks ago at NAB 2013.

Depending on what your "computer software and hardware" issues are, these new capabilities, if they happen, may help address them.

Meanwhile, BMCC-EF (and eventually BMCC-MFT) ProRes HQ (or DNxHD) 1080p Film (log) looks really, really good, so I encourage you to consider it if you prefer the BMCC vs. the new Pocket Cinema Camera.

For example, see James Tonkin's wonderful BMCC-EF ProRes HQ Film "A Night in Nine Elms" (download the 603MB version of the video):


Cheers.

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Well, the BMPCC is a lot more affordable and small. And so are the file sizes.

I edit on Premiere in Windows.

I do prefer RAW, but can live with ProRes in the meantime.

2.5K uncompressed RAW is too much for Premiere. But I'm hoping that 1080p slightly compressed RAW will be OK. I'd rather not deal with round robin and proxies. I love Premiere because I can edit most footage natively.

I'm just trying to plan out what I'll need for the future, in terms of bricks and glass.

I mean, the 4K camera is my dream because I want to shoot my features on it, but I know that's even worse at the moment in terms of hardware/software.

So many choices!

2.5K uncompressed RAW is too much for Premiere. But I'm hoping that 1080p slightly compressed RAW will be OK. I'd rather not deal with round robin and proxies. I love Premiere because I can edit most footage natively.

It's not too much for Resolve, which is also a lot more stable than Premiere.

I mean, the 4K camera is my dream because I want to shoot my features on it, but I know that's even worse at the moment in terms of hardware/software.

So many choices!

The way things are going, I'm wondering what will ship first: the EF 4K camera or the MFT 2.5K camera. If all else is equal, I'd favor the 2.5K for the dynamic range, but I going to need a dedicated cinema camera sooner or later... preferably sooner, because my Nex just isn't dependable enough for serious production use (it's too prone to overheating when recording video).

I have a electric follow focus rig that is built into an HD monitor. with DSLR and lower end cameras, the viewing monitor turns off when you plug an external monitor in. Is this camera going to allow the operator to view from the camera while the focus puller views from the HDMI out? This looks like a simple firm ware thing I wish all cameras had the option to select.

... Is this camera going to allow the operator to view from the camera while the focus puller views from the HDMI out? This looks like a simple firm ware thing I wish all cameras had the option to select.

To the best of my knowledge, the Pocket Cinema Camera's built-in LCD remains active when its HDMI port is connected to an external monitor or other device.

Since the BMPCC's firmware reportedly isn't finished yet, we won't know for sure about this feature until the camera is closer to shipping.

It takes more than firmware to make this functionality possible. A camera's hardware has to be able to support multiple display devices, which not all camera hardware can do.

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... Is this camera going to allow the operator to view from the camera while the focus puller views from the HDMI out? This looks like a simple firm ware thing I wish all cameras had the option to select.

To the best of my knowledge, the Pocket Cinema Camera's built-in LCD remains active when its HDMI port is connected to an external monitor or other device.



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I haven't checked but yes that should be possible. Both HDMI and the rear display will work at the same time.

jb

JB..(or anyone at BMD)
I have a question which relates to all the BMD cameras..

Are the zebras related to ire units? or the actual clipping point of the sensor?

I noticed when you shot with the pocket camera in ProRes you said you set the zebras to 100% and ettr just like you would do in raw... I've been setting my BMCC to 90% when shooting in prores.. it appears after watching your pocketcam video that 100% zebra setting is safe while shooting in compressed codecs.

Also.. in the pocketcam.. is the ProRes 10bit 422?

I am so ready to pick up the pocketcam as a little brother for my BMCC!!

Thanks!

From my tests and projects I've found the using 100% zebras on ProRes Film mode give perfect results. My thinking is that the internal processor takes the RAW sensor data and compresses it into the 10bit space. So you get all the 16bit info remapped to the 10bit space.

Video mode appears to act different.

Thanks Adam..
I understand that's the best method for exposing.. but I'm trying to figure out if the zebras are related to ire units or not..
and my ProRes questions was related to the pocket camera.. I know the BMCC has 10bit ProRes(HQ) 422.. but does the pocket camera?

Thanks Adam..
I understand that's the best method for exposing.. but I'm trying to figure out if the zebras are related to ire units or not..
and my ProRes questions was related to the pocket camera.. I know the BMCC has 10bit ProRes(HQ) 422.. but does the pocket camera?

In BMD's cameras, zebras indicate sensor clipping, not IRE. See JB's post here:
viewtopic.php?p=49740&sid=439ac20ef088de8e3a5495c854d98d6a#p49740

All BMD cameras announced thus far feature 10-bit 4:2:2 "ProRes 422 HQ" 1080p @ up to 220 megabits/sec., or (in the case of the BMPC-4K: 10-bit 4:2:2 "ProRes 422 HQ" 4K @ up to 884 megabits/sec.

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From my tests and projects I've found the using 100% zebras on ProRes Film mode give perfect results. My thinking is that the internal processor takes the RAW sensor data and compresses it into the 10bit space. So you get all the 16bit info remapped to the 10bit space.

Video mode appears to act different.

John Brawley has posted recently that you may want to back off a little further from ETTR with 100% zebras when using ProRes Film since highlights may be more difficult to work with. If shooting ProRes Video, the Iris Button will take an average exposure much like a DSLR, but if shooting ProRes Film, the Iris button still gives you an ETTR based on the zebras.

For those who have the camera, try a quick test with.ProRes Video and ProRes Film at 100%, 90%, 75% zebras to see the difference. Adding raw tests with varying zebras settings might round out that test nicely... Thanks.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I agree since you need to control broadcast safe whites/Highlights more in proRes, this is nothing new, not sure why it even has this many questions??

JB explains this as simple as he could.

Does anyone know which baseplate and PL mount adapter are being used with the BMPCC in the top two pictures under the "Accessories" tab on the Blackmagic website? The baseplate looks like it makes the camera compatible with a 15mm LW support system for cine lenses - it has green knobs but the manufacturer logo is too small to read.

It also looks like there's a different baseplate/PL mount combo in the photo of the camera with the Arri Alura 18-80.

Are these are preproduction versions of baseplates specifically designed for the BMPCC, or do they already exist and just happen to fit the camera?

Does anyone know which baseplate and PL mount adapter are being used with the BMPCC in the top two pictures under the "Accessories" tab on the Blackmagic website? The baseplate looks like it makes the camera compatible with a 15mm LW support system for cine lenses - it has green knobs but the manufacturer logo is too small to read.

It's a Lanparte baseplate. I've got one. Well machined and very solid.

Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera


I have a set of Zeiss lenses for my Contax G2. Can they, or is there a way to use them on the new Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera?

The Metabones adapter should work

http://www.metabones.com/product/micro- ... bm1-detail

I would also imagine that other MFT to Contax adapters should work as well.

Ned Soltz

Are these are preproduction versions of baseplates specifically designed for the BMPCC, or do they already exist and just happen to fit the camera?

The adaptor is a HOT ROD PL adaptor.

The baseplate / riser is a custom piece mede by BMD to adapt the camera to common optical lens height to allow the camera to be used with off the shelf adaptors. Presumably others will make this riser plate. (it's not a BMD item)

jb

I'm very enthusiastic about BMPC. I need a b-cam for recording many-hours-long live shows, concerts, conferences etc. 50 min per 64Gb is a problem here. Please Blackmagic do firmware update with a codec option with more manageable file size! I realize that many people buy it specifically for 422, RAW capabilities etc, but there are many applications where these heavy streams are WAY too redundant. I really need 13 stops and excellent resolution. But I also need to be able to record for a LONG time with no card swapping. Thank you.

I have to agree here - how cool to be able to record a lower rate intra-frame avchd for those long sessions - I shoot concerts, great little camera 13 stops fantastic, I don't want 28mbs inter frame, that sucks, but something that'll give me a few hours on one card - and a battery grip with "live" swap

Paul

Why a battery grip?
Just connect a 12V battery. When that one is dead, you still have the internal battery.
Just swap in another external 12V one and you're still rolling.
The internal one is charged from the 12V port while the camera is running.

I'm very enthusiastic about BMPC. I need a b-cam for recording many-hours-long live shows, concerts, conferences etc. 50 min per 64Gb is a problem here. Please Blackmagic do firmware update with a codec option with more manageable file size! I realize that many people buy it specifically for 422, RAW capabilities etc, but there are many applications where these heavy streams are WAY too redundant. I really need 13 stops and excellent resolution. But I also need to be able to record for a LONG time with no card swapping. Thank you.

I have to agree here - how cool to be able to record a lower rate intra-frame avchd for those long sessions - I shoot concerts, great little camera 13 stops fantastic, I don't want 28mbs inter frame, that sucks, but something that'll give me a few hours on one card - and a battery grip with "live" swap

Paul

The Atomos Ninja 2 external HDMI external recorder is only ~$650 now. It records several flavors of ProRes, including "ProRes 422 LT". If you want less quality than that, buy a different external recorder or a different camera. My guess is those options are far more likely to be available to you ("soon") than are a BMPCC pocket cam firmware update with ProRes 422 LT or AVCHD in the BMPCC itself.

Hi,
I would like to know if BM Pocket stops recording once the file reaches 16 GB or if it records without interruptions and without losing any frame until depletion of the SD card capacity?
Thank you

Hi,
I would like to know if BM Pocket stops recording once the file reaches 16 GB or if it records without interruptions and without losing any frame until depletion of the SD card capacity?
Thank you

There are no file size limitations.

jb

Does anyone know if there will be SD card size limitations? I got in a discussion with a friend who mentioned his camera (Panasonic SDT-750) can't accept an SD card over 64GB and that got me curious whether 128GB SDXC would be an issue.

Does anyone know if there will be SD card size limitations? I got in a discussion with a friend who mentioned his camera (Panasonic SDT-750) can't accept an SD card over 64GB and that got me curious whether 128GB SDXC would be an issue.

A 128GB card is pictured on the BMPCC product pages more than once, so I doubt that card size will be an issue.

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Does anyone know if there will be SD card size limitations? I got in a discussion with a friend who mentioned his camera (Panasonic SDT-750) can't accept an SD card over 64GB and that got me curious whether 128GB SDXC would be an issue.

SDHC is only up to 32GB, when you want more you have to use SDXC (64GB and 128GB). Obviously the Panny SDT-750 can't handle SDXC, the BMPCC can (as mentioned in the technical details)

Does anyone know if there will be SD card size limitations? I got in a discussion with a friend who mentioned his camera (Panasonic SDT-750) can't accept an SD card over 64GB and that got me curious whether 128GB SDXC would be an issue.

A 128GB card is pictured on the BMPCC product pages more than once, so I doubt that card size will be an issue.

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Thanks Peter, must not have been paying attention. Cheers.

@Camerarick, the SDT750 accepts 64GB, nothing higher though. It's not about card types it has a physical media capacity limitation.

@Camerarick, the SDT750 accepts 64GB, nothing higher though. It's not about card types it has a physical media capacity limitation.

Ah, I didn't know that. However, I think Blackmagic was smart enough to allow more then 64GB with this Cam
So far, the 95mb/s Cards from SanDisk don't exist in anything bigger then 64GB, so I'm not that concerned.

I did a test using my GH2, a Kinor 16 adapter from ciecio7 on eBay, and a handful of Kinor 16 lenses. Julian over at EOSHD.com's forums added the projected BMPCC crop overlay to get an estimation of how these should look on the BMPCC, just in case anyone's interested in looking at these somewhat inexpensive Russian lenses. The 6mm fisheye and 10mm vignette (hence my want for a re-sizable crop feature, unless I just get used to doing it in post). My guesstimation is a 15mm is probably the widest Kinor Prime usable without vignetting, but I don't have one of those handy.

Just found a good link to $20 Nikon EL-EN20 Battery http://www.atbatt.com/product/24734.asp

Anyone tell the cheap quality features of this?

Anyone tell the cheap quality features of this?

Sorry, but I don't understand your question. Perhaps you can rephrase it?

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Hi,

A few questions-

1) Does this have auto white balance? Is it possible to set white balance manually?
2) Does it have auto focus?
3) can't see a manual for this on support site, are you going to put one up?

Just off topic, how come your not using 35mm full frame sensor for 4k cinema camera? Look at the Sony VG 900, I know it doesn't do ProRes 422 but if it did then this camera will be ace.
Secondly make a camera with 3 35mm sensors, probably need a lot of processing power, but possible? The quality from such a camera will be extreme!


Thanks.

Hi,

A few questions-

1) Does this have auto white balance? Is it possible to set white balance manually?
2) Does it have auto focus?
3) can't see a manual for this on support site, are you going to put one up?

Just off topic, how come your not using 35mm full frame sensor for 4k cinema camera? Look at the Sony VG 900, I know it doesn't do ProRes 422 but if it did then this camera will be ace.
Secondly make a camera with 3 35mm sensors, probably need a lot of processing power, but possible? The quality from such a camera will be extreme! Thanks.

1. Auto white balance: No, the BMPCC does not feature auto WB. You'll be able to set the WB manually, as with other Blackmagic cinema cameras.

2. Auto focus: No, the BMPCC does not feature auto focus. Like other Blackmagic cinema cameras the BMPCC will feature focus peaking & magnify on its LCD display.

3. User manual: When the BMPCC is shipping ("late July 2013"), Blackmagic will probably make its user manual PDF available for download.

4. "Just off topic, how come your not using 35mm full frame sensor for 4k cinema camera? Look at the Sony VG 900, I know it doesn't do ProRes 422 but if it did then this camera will be ace. Secondly make a camera with 3 35mm sensors, probably need a lot of processing power, but possible? The quality from such a camera will be extreme!":

The BMPC-4K camera will feature a S35 size sensor, the most common size for motion picture filmmaking. Larger 135-format size sensors are atypical and rarely used in professional filmmaking. Anything is "possible", if you're willing to pay for it.

Cheers.

Just pre-ordered my BMPCC (hooray!).

Curiosity strikes, if the mount is Active MFT and to my knowledge that means powered so camera controlled focus/AF. What's it do for me on a camera without AF? (I'm not bitching about AF, I don't care much for it anyway)

Just pre-ordered my BMPCC (hooray!).

Curiosity strikes, if the mount is Active MFT and to my knowledge that means powered so camera controlled focus/AF. What's it do for me on a camera without AF? (I'm not bitching about AF, I don't care much for it anyway)

Depending on the lens stablisation and apature controle I'd suspect are common features that it enables. Some IS lenses on the MFT mount in particular are seriously degraded by not having such features avaliable (even if you turn them off, the precense of control and power for the feature means it doesnt negatively affect things as much as if it wasnt there).

Just pre-ordered my BMPCC (hooray!).

Curiosity strikes, if the mount is Active MFT and to my knowledge that means powered so camera controlled focus/AF. What's it do for me on a camera without AF? (I'm not bitching about AF, I don't care much for it anyway)

Depending on the lens stablisation and apature controle I'd suspect are common features that it enables. Some IS lenses on the MFT mount in particular are seriously degraded by not having such features avaliable (even if you turn them off, the precense of control and power for the feature means it doesnt negatively affect things as much as if it wasnt there).

Ah, makes sense. Thanks!

auto wb is notorious for reaking havoc on an edit. Even within seconds of rolling on a scene the camera is continually re-white balancing. So when you get to the edit, none of your shots maintain the same fixed white balance. Your colors slip all over the freaken place. auto wb sucks.

Can we use canon yh14x7.3 macro tv lens with BMPCC?