BMPCC4K V2

I'm hearing rumours of a Pocket 4K 'update' with a tilt screen, optional loupe, built in battery grip, various anamorphic modes and a user adjustable sensor crop from full sensor to S16 like the JVC LS300 VSM feature.

Hope it's true.

"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say." That sums it up about rumors.

It seems early in the game for BMD to release a new version of the Pocket 4K, but who knows. The generation 2 Ursa Mini Pro 4.6K came out 2 years after the first generation (Ursa Mini Pro was announced in March 2017; Ursa Mini Pro Gen 2 was announced in March 2019). Pocket 4K was announced in 2018.

With many folks in some countries still awaiting deliveries, and having received my camera just over two weeks ago, announcing a Pocket with very significant improvements is going to feel painful. Then again, if it was only announced and still took another year to deliver, not quite the dagger to the heart. Change is constant. There are several areas that could benefit from improvements, while the Pocket 4K is a winner overall.

Honestly though, I’d rather see that new optional viewfinder, like the BMVF, but less expensive, articulated, smaller, and able to be positioned anywhere. The existing BMVF is near perfect except for its design as a dongle to the BM Shoulder Mount kit. A BPVF isn’t going to be painful like a significantly redesigned Pocket camera; it’ll be an enhancement to the camera you own.


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I'm hearing rumours of a Pocket 4K 'update' with a tilt screen, optional loupe, built in battery grip, various anamorphic modes and a user adjustable sensor crop from full sensor to S16 like the JVC LS300 VSM feature.

Hope it's true.

If true, I doubt that it will be 1299.


Ricardo Marty

In a future version ("II")

I would like to see the 2 internal drives removed and replaced with a caddy/cartridge system that utilizes dual slots ->2x, M.2 SSD 80s, that can facilitate dual recording for data safety. SSD are cheap, and EXTREMELY fast and by using a caddy/cartridge system they can be popped in and out as needed.

I would also like to have a large capacity battery/grip that holds a "standard" form factor even if that means a cartridge that holds 4x 18650 lithium ion types (or whatever) giving around 40++Wh. (Or maybe in a flat style that is built into the bottom.

Lastly a screen that flips up and down to see better...

Soooo... that is my 1.5 cents.

Technically, wouldn't this be V3 since V1 was the CDNG version?

No, that was version 1 rev 2.
Cheers

To my knowledge BMD has only updated the ursa cameras. If they would update the p4k I would like it to be in another form factor, maybe like a bigger bm micro studio camera (wider/deeper). Plus all the other things mentioned here.

Ricardo Marty

They can put this https://www.fairchildimaging.com/produc ... rs/mst4323 new Fairchild lmaging's BSI sCMOS 3.0 4K sensor to same body or to the BMMCC-like brick. This allow to match camera to classic look ofBMCC/BMPCC/BMMCC/Ursa4.6k dual gain sensors.

Nah! They'll be coming out with what I suggested, a small form-factor, fixed lens, MFT sensor, weather-proof, cine camera.

Why?

They can put this https://www.fairchildimaging.com/produc ... rs/mst4323 new Fairchild lmaging's BSI sCMOS 3.0 4K sensor to same body or to the BMMCC-like brick. This allow to match camera to classic look ofBMCC/BMPCC/BMMCC/Ursa4.6k dual gain sensors.

May have slighly better color depth at the cost of low light capabilities I think.
Still can stretch Pocket 4K footage too make it look like it has better depth though.
Works fine on the eyes but not so much on the vectorscope lol.

Nah! They'll be coming out with what I suggested, a small form-factor, fixed lens, MFT sensor, weather-proof, cine camera.

Why?

Because!

I would rather see a Micro version of the 4K
and honestly, I don't think Black Magic cares about flippy screens. At least I hope not

Why?[/quote]

Because![/quote]

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My mate Gutterfax would love you.

I'm hearing rumours of a Pocket 4K 'update' with a tilt screen, optional loupe, built in battery grip, various anamorphic modes and a user adjustable sensor crop from full sensor to S16 like the JVC LS300 VSM feature.

Hope it's true.

If true, I doubt that it will be 1299.


Ricardo Marty

Maybe a tad more.

They can put this https://www.fairchildimaging.com/produc ... rs/mst4323 new Fairchild lmaging's BSI sCMOS 3.0 4K sensor to same body or to the BMMCC-like brick. This allow to match camera to classic look ofBMCC/BMPCC/BMMCC/Ursa4.6k dual gain sensors.

that would be a dream of many customers who are dissatisfied with the sony sensor and there are many of them. Well, I'd buy a camera like that right now. Until then, I'm staying at bmpcc.

New pocket 9k soon, can’t wait

This thread didn’t age well lol

I'm hearing rumours of a Pocket 4K 'update' with a tilt screen, optional loupe, built in battery grip, various anamorphic modes and a user adjustable sensor crop from full sensor to S16 like the JVC LS300 VSM feature.

Hope it's true.

If you would, please be so kind and divulge how you became privy to this...

Right Jean, To get back on topic, I would like to see an upgraded Micro type camera also, could be 4K or a larger S35 Sensor 6K, with PL mount.

Cheers

Guys, Jean is winding you all up...
You might want to consider not taking the bait.
Cheers

I think you're winding me up, you have been since I joined.....lay off the troll juice bruva.

Well, the 6k is out. But I wonder if we will get a preview of another camera soon at the show soon. What you describe sounds very much like an more advanced form of my suggested upgrade format for the micro, except rotatable detachable handle. The display breaks away too, to leave just a FOV/DRONE/Crash can/security camera (the good type in security areas and Casinos. Lucrative with braw, but they need to preserve detail for evidence).

I don't know where that post is, but the flip screen goes on the back of a battery and tilts multiple ways, including out and around and up like a camcorder holding position and screen. You can use low, high or side, and get and away from the sun.

In February 2020 Fairchild Imaging released new 4K BSI sCMOS 3.0 HWK4123 sensor with 0.5e- RMS read noise (sort of very low light sensor) https://www.fairchildimaging.com/produc ... rs/hwk4123

So could we see this one in future cameras?

Possibly and the specs look good, but we never know what trade-offs there are. Yes the sensor manufacturer may provide a list of specs but all items may not be implemented at the same time. With this sensor the 120fps at 4K may be a limitation for example that in practice isn’t delivered by cinema camera manufacturers.

Always interesting to see monochrome options which may be fine for the surveillance market this targets, but we may not have that option either in a cinema camera.

I was excited to see this topic pop up this morning but alas, my disappointment..

Here is also some really cool ideas that i love to see in future BM cameras. Simple brick body, interchangable lens mount, electronic ND filter, integrated OLPF filter, multi format battery mount...
https://www.newsshooter.com/2020/04/27/ ... recording/
https://ymcinema.com/2020/04/27/kinefin ... iber-body/

Nice website.

If only they would release those cameras at cheap Chinese prices, or Australian prices.

The new sensor sounds nice, maybe they were waiting for it for a new micro. I fear BM might have it's eye on what's coming down the Sony sensor pipe.

I agree most of that new camera looks very good, but let’s see what is actually delivered at that price. Dmitry would you buy that at $12K or wait for the BMD version well under $10K?

I’ll pass, looking at that camera gives me a headache, all that moire’...
Cheers

I agree most of that new camera looks very good, but let’s see what is actually delivered at that price. Dmitry would you buy that at $12K or wait for the BMD version well under $10K?

Only if they release new simple BMMCC-like camera brick with new 4K Fairchild Imaging sensor for $995. Currently i am happy with BMMCC with Mosaic IR/OLPF and and SLR Magic VariND and for my hobby work i just don't see any practical reason to spend so many $$$ for new camera

I agree most of that new camera looks very good, but let’s see what is actually delivered at that price. Dmitry would you buy that at $12K or wait for the BMD version well under $10K?

I think it's the other way Rick.

Normally feature for feature I'd expect BMD cameras to cost MORE than the KF...

JB

That’s a sobering thought, John. Thanks.

Well Rick, if BM is going to cost a lot more than overpriced Kinefinity, then there will be problems. Kinefinity is only a cheap Red alternative, but BM has been cheaper again in ready packages
It doesn't matters there is a Chinese $2800 or something 8k camera that I didn't post here, as it had a laughable 200mbit per second upper recording rate in h264/h265 which is why I rejected the zcam, even when it was supposed to be over 1200mbit/s before it dropped back to 200mbiy, before it too late went zraw and ProRes. If I wanted to shoot holidays snaps on a 200mbit/s 8k camera, I'd preferably find a phone that could fit than waste my money and time. These companies still don't understand it's better to be closer to 16 bit then 8bit and lossless than consumer C grade. I am not do up myself to demand that it be noise free pristine stops for something special on the edge, that never stopped people watch movies on film or them being top sellers in the old days. But having to film stuff that looks like the quality of nightmares on broadcast and streaming, is a bit too much. I think the new pocket shot Fantasy Isand film look, is a minimum to aim for. I look forwards to new cameras, just don't know, if they will be BM now. Next whatever, is a while away, and close to the release of another product

BTW, they have the first sample footage from the Komodo on that cinema site above.

Wayne, I looked at the sample Komodo footage, but I have no plans to purchase an 8K monitor that might be best to view it. The 2020 televisions look very interesting as there are a few 8K models. One review noted the lack of 8K footage to watch but even included HD footage that the TV upscales to 8K in the fly. These new TVs are almost overwhelming in the extensive range of features and integration with the various home management devices (like telling you that you need to buy vegetables). I don’t want any of that. I haven’t seen a TV that will work like my manual cameras that simply lets me select the look and then shows me what I chose to look at. Just the steak and forget the sizzle please. I guess that simplicity just won’t sell these days.

Komodo is 8k? I did not know, I thought it was an obscenely expensive 6k (compared to the pocket 6k), so never bothered to track. Honestly, the amount of things Red cancelled or changed that wrecked my plans, I've stopped bothering. Anyway, BM could do a micro 8k for $995, but we can't even get a descent 4k micro cinema camera at any price.


Rick, the advanced menu of a high end LG, Samsung, or Panosonic allows you to set looks. I simply adjust the default looks to suite different content. To dull go to this look, too dark go there, to bright and washed out go there. I basically use three looks as different brightness or contrast, and reserve the most calibrated look as close to calibrated. On my set, two looks are featuring on brightness and colour extension, like the pocket 4k look, the other two looks are more lower contrast and more solid colour, like the mini 4.6k. But if you buy a cheap TV, there usually is less ability to adjust, and more stupid looks. I've actually been advocating for a much more customisable look structure to content and users. But an issue is, HDR content can be fragile, because pushing 10 bits to the extreme makes adjustments break it (however I've got around 6 look modes including HDR modes, so I can play nicer with HDR content). Each input has seperate set of looks too, including apps draw, so dozens, which allows the the input a camera is attached to, or content drive for your camera samples, to be separately calibrated. An example is another life on Netflix, interior ship scenes, there is little adjustment there in brightness without the footage breaking.

It's still 6k.

BTW, Samsung 8k is some strange pixel configuration which people don't regard as 8k. They also nuked their Colour gamut range last year.

Some of the cheap Chinese manufactures, or Sharp, have promising LCD Panels, even dual LCD, but it is a bit of a crap shoot trying to find a good TV that has it and allows you to exploit it. Find a good review on a good review site, like rtings.com flatpanelshd, hdtestUk (he has traveled to China and interviewed over there and had done good video of Presentations, including technologies to get closer to full rec2020 from the year before last, or last year). The Chinese have panels over 92% rec2020, but it doesn't mean a TV you can buy will get there. Now, from Hisense and TCL, they very top models have made some good attempts (not feature wise so much, or even broadcast modes). They also have various mini led backlight stats from several thousands to maybe over a hundred thousand (I forget) but most of those models you don't get outside of China. Sharp is a more regular brand, and since they are taking back the Sharp name put on pie quality sets in America by a licensed manufacturer, you might have access to their nice top of the line Japanese sets. But things have changed since I tracked things the year before last.

It's still 6k.

Yes, slip up on my part after two days of looking at 8K options. 6K is good.

Komodo is 6K, global shutter, Canon RF mount and a cube format. Cheaper than yr average Red, more expensive than BM. But global shutter and better form factor than Pocket 6K, but yeah, three times the current price. BM's new motto, "6K for 2K!"

Lol! Thats good!

Lol. Like virtually all these embedded cameras I've seen they use a compromised setup. I'm going be negative this time. According to the laughable documentation (yet you can buy a book for too much) there is not even a proper locked down UHD video rate on it, and the software are just done command line commands. It's a lower 4 series Sony rather than 6 series. What's high quality about that? I talked to one of these embedded camera guys about doing a camera years ago, and they were just plain weird, as was another not so famous camera maker I'm sick of all these weird ass trouble maker people around the place.

And it's bulky. If only Apple kept the nano going to 4k.

Stuff, they need to do something with the best chipset, interfaces and best sensor (Samsung or Sony, or other starting to improve their game) and descent software, then claim it's High Quality.