8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

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Peter Chamberlain

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8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostTue Jun 04, 2019 5:41 am

With the announcement today of the new MacPro and Pro Display XDR I'd like to mention a couple of things that are coming.

We have announced on our press page the new Teranex Mini SDI to DisplayPort 8K HDR with an expectation of an October release. This will permit SDI cable connections from the DeckLink 8K Pro to the 8K Display Port connected monitor via the new Teranex Mini. https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/media/release/20190603-01

DaVinci Resolve Studio already supports multiple GPU's and 8K etc. but with today's announcements I would also like to mention that in a coming DaVinci Resolve Studio release, likely when the new MacPro and display ships, we will support a full screen 2nd monitor display directly from the GPU for those who don't need the longer cable connections supported by the Teranex Mini SDI to DisplayPort 8K HDR.

More details to follow.
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Glenn Venghaus

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8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostTue Jun 04, 2019 5:56 am

Peter Chamberlain wrote:DaVinci Resolve Studio already supports multiple GPU's and 8K etc. but with today's announcements I would also like to mention that in a coming DaVinci Resolve Studio release, likely when the new MacPro and display ships, we will support a full screen 2nd monitor display directly from the GPU for those who don't need the longer cable connections supported by the Teranex Mini SDI to DisplayPort 8K HDR.

More details to follow.


Wow, you will make a lot of people crying for years about this (me not included for the record) very happy.
Great stuff guys
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostTue Jun 04, 2019 10:41 am

Will it be color accurate then without SDI if i get it correctly?

Till now all colors on gui has ben beg no no.
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Glenn Venghaus

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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostTue Jun 04, 2019 10:45 am

Margus Voll wrote:Will it be color accurate then without SDI if i get it correctly?

Till now all colors on gui has ben beg no no.


Likely not , but all the screamers clearly stated that they did not care about color accurate via BM hardware and just wanted a full screen second display.
But who knows with BM , they are always full of surprises ;-)
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostTue Jun 04, 2019 9:48 pm

Please make a Decklink with a thunderbolt 3 (DisplayPort) output, et voilà.
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostWed Jun 05, 2019 4:06 pm

Glenn Venghaus wrote: the screamers clearly stated that they did not care about color accurate via BM hardware and just wanted a full screen second display.


now let's see if they are happy with the $14,000 it costs to avoid the expence of a $150 i/o card ;-)

and for that 14k you get 8 core/32g/minimal gpu + a re housed ASUS + a very fancy monitor stand...
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostWed Jun 05, 2019 4:14 pm

Glenn Venghaus wrote:
Margus Voll wrote:Will it be color accurate then without SDI if i get it correctly?

Till now all colors on gui has ben beg no no.


Likely not , but all the screamers clearly stated that they did not care about color accurate via BM hardware and just wanted a full screen second display.
But who knows with BM , they are always full of surprises ;-)
On that price seems nuts

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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostThu Jun 06, 2019 11:21 am

Dermot Shane wrote:and for that 14k you get 8 core/32g/minimal gpu + a re housed ASUS + a very fancy monitor stand...


I saw that ASUS panel at NAB. It flickered intermittently on cuts in the demo footage and couldn’t maintain 1000nits full screen, so if it really is the same panel, whatever extra work Apple has put into the signal processing and the housing are getting a lot more out of it than ASUS was showing.
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostThu Jun 06, 2019 11:27 am

Thats what you get with assumptions and this continuous part for part comparison. :roll:
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostFri Jun 14, 2019 1:42 pm

Looks like it's going to be Studio feature.
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostFri Jun 14, 2019 8:51 pm

I actually wanted a third screen so I bought a B stock DM 240 Flanders monitor for less than USD$3395.
Fully calibrated from the factory.
Add to that the SDI card and I have full screen Grade A broadcast monitor on a third screen for USD$3500.
There are PLENTY of HD SDI monitors for sale on ebay and FSI have B stock specials around show times.
I also have a 55" OLED LG C8 which is an extremely close match for the FSI.
These are now around USD $1800.

I am happy with my purchases and setup and more importantly, so are the clients

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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostSat Jun 15, 2019 7:07 am

Dermot Shane wrote: a re housed ASUS...


That's interesting, where did you find that?
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostSat Jun 15, 2019 6:54 pm

Glenn Venghaus wrote:
Margus Voll wrote:Will it be color accurate then without SDI if i get it correctly?

Till now all colors on gui has ben beg no no.


Likely not , but all the screamers clearly stated that they did not care about color accurate via BM hardware and just wanted a full screen second display.
But who knows with BM , they are always full of surprises ;-)

The question is...why would anyone interested in color grading, not care about accurate color?
Why buy a $5000+ Apple XDR just to hook it up thru the GPU?
A decklink is little cost add-on to the monitor.
There are people trying to use laptop and consumer screens to grade, and think they can sell their services as a colorist. The reason the Decklinks exist is to bypass the OS color management. It doesn't matter if you are going to use the new Apple XDR, it will still be inaccurate thru the GPU. Unless Blackmagic found a magical way to bypass OS color management in software which I doubt.
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostSat Jun 15, 2019 8:33 pm

No more magic needed than what other companies already do, like Assimilate with their products.
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostSun Jun 16, 2019 8:51 am

Myron Hobizal wrote:
Glenn Venghaus wrote:
Margus Voll wrote:Will it be color accurate then without SDI if i get it correctly?

Till now all colors on gui has ben beg no no.


Likely not , but all the screamers clearly stated that they did not care about color accurate via BM hardware and just wanted a full screen second display.
But who knows with BM , they are always full of surprises ;-)

The question is...why would anyone interested in color grading, not care about accurate color?
Why buy a $5000+ Apple XDR just to hook it up thru the GPU?
A decklink is little cost add-on to the monitor.
There are people trying to use laptop and consumer screens to grade, and think they can sell their services as a colorist. The reason the Decklinks exist is to bypass the OS color management. It doesn't matter if you are going to use the new Apple XDR, it will still be inaccurate thru the GPU. Unless Blackmagic found a magical way to bypass OS color management in software which I doubt.


Because GPU preview can be as (or if you are pedantic even more) accurate than BM card. It's all about software supporting it. BM card in such a case is just waste of PCI-E slot and resources (and money). It can work with any monitor (including reference ones as about all of them have HDMI or DP connections), not just Apple new screen.
There is no magic needed- some software already do it. Stop believing in 20 years old statements. We are in 2019 now, not 1990. Bypassing OS color engine is not a problem at all.
BM card still can be useful depending on the setup, but for many small places it's not needed once color accurate GPU preview is implemented.
It has been debated already many times and time has come. BM made a good decision.
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostSun Jun 16, 2019 3:13 pm

Dermot Shane wrote:now let's see if they are happy with the $14,000 it costs to avoid the expence of a $150 i/o card ;-)

and for that 14k you get 8 core/32g/minimal gpu + a re housed ASUS + a very fancy monitor stand...


When they try to work with 8K they'll be so annoyed that they won't notice that their systems aren't color accurate... or maybe when they see the price tag for the proprietary GPU modules?

Either way, it probably won't matter. Not many will be able to afford a config powerful enough for real work, and those few who can will set it up correctly regardless of what Apple's marketing claims.

I am interested in that Teranex Mini though. It looks like a great deal -- compact, HDR support, will work nicely with modern monitors... if you use it like you'd use any other I/O box in a color managed workflow, would it do the job? Is there any down side to using DisplayPort rather than SDI to a reference monitor, assuming the reference monitor has DisplayPort? Are there any such, now that I'm thinking about it?
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostSun Jun 16, 2019 3:19 pm

There is basically no downside. You have SDI on one side (which can go long distance) and about all pro monitors have HDMI or DP port (you may just need DP to HDMI converter). It's very useful device and people wanted one for long time. If you use monitors like EIZO this is very welcome device.
If I were to complain there should be an HDMI port as well to make things even easier.
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostSun Jun 16, 2019 3:23 pm

So it CAN output a color calibrated feed over SDI? The description made it sound like the SDI outs were only loopbacks from the SDI ins.
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostSun Jun 16, 2019 3:26 pm

Not sure about it. I just meant that SDI goes in, so you can have long cables.
I assume this could be done (even if it's not there already).
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostSun Jun 16, 2019 3:34 pm

Ah... I misunderstood then, I suppose it's not usable as a video I/O device then.
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostSun Jun 16, 2019 4:29 pm

Be aware that the Teranex line of products are usually pretty noisy and not something you would have on a desk.
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostSun Jun 16, 2019 5:03 pm

Really? I didn't realize that. Good to know!

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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostTue Jun 18, 2019 7:12 am

Glenn Venghaus wrote:
Margus Voll wrote:Will it be color accurate then without SDI if i get it correctly?

Till now all colors on gui has ben beg no no.


Likely not , but all the screamers clearly stated that they did not care about color accurate via BM hardware and just wanted a full screen second display.
But who knows with BM , they are always full of surprises ;-)


i never really understood this, although i've read alot about it. Eventually i just followed all the advice.
I got a flanders monitor here, and im grading and editing on it, with a decklink card connected to the sdi input.
for a test, i connected the dvi cable to the flanders as well, and switched from input to see if there were differences. But i absolutely do not see any, not even slightly. didn't test it with other monitors though.
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostWed Jun 19, 2019 11:15 am

Peter Chamberlain wrote:we will support a full screen 2nd monitor display directly from the GPU

Every time I feel like we're in the darkest timeline I just need to read about some new Resolve features or other Blackmagic product announcements to feel better. Soon there'll be nothing left to wish for!
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostWed Jun 19, 2019 3:01 pm

Rick van den Berg wrote:for a test, i connected the dvi cable to the flanders as well, and switched from input to see if there were differences. But i absolutely do not see any, not even slightly. didn't test it with other monitors though.

Single link DVI has a maximum bit depth of 8 bits. If you output a gray ramp it should be easy to detect.
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostWed Jun 19, 2019 4:27 pm

8bit is an old problem. Todays home standards are as good as pro ones or actually better (which is one of the key points of making GPU preview possible).
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostWed Jun 19, 2019 4:54 pm

Yes, but I was referring to Ricks test where he was using DVI.
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostWed Jun 19, 2019 6:51 pm

I know, but he was more interested in colors/gamma difference I assume.
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostThu Jun 20, 2019 8:17 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:I know, but he was more interested in colors/gamma difference I assume.


you're right, although i forgot about the 8-bit/10 bit difference for a sec.
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostWed Jul 03, 2019 11:30 am

Myron Hobizal wrote:The question is...why would anyone interested in color grading, not care about accurate color?


If they are doing any kind of serious color grading, the option of GPU rendering to an external monitor is not a good idea.

The people who would really benefit from this are those who are using Resolve as an editor, maybe as a compositor, not those who are color grading.

In an editor/compositor role, the color accuracy is not as important and this is a good option.

For people doing basic color grading of their own work (for internet distribution and the like) and who are working primarily off the scopes, they can probably get away with it as long as they calibrate the displays and pay attention to what the scopes are telling them. For anything more serious than that, they should be using the proper hardware interface.
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostFri Jul 05, 2019 11:16 am

Peter Chamberlain wrote:.. I would also like to mention that in a coming DaVinci Resolve Studio release, likely when the new MacPro and display ships, we will support a full screen 2nd monitor display directly from the GPU....

Can anyone confirm whether this is likely to be a Mac-only thing, or if it will work for Windows too? Thanks.
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostSun Jul 07, 2019 10:29 pm

we will support a full screen 2nd monitor display directly from the GPU

Talk about burying the lead!

This is most welcome! There are a multitude of valid reasons someone might desire a fullscreen preview monitor (even if 1% +/- color accurate).
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostMon Jul 08, 2019 5:12 pm

I think it's quite possible to get accurate color from the GPU output, but there is a better chance of screwing it up than by going through a decklink card. But with careful setup, very possible.

It would be best to create a 3d display LUT for Resolve though for this workflow. More challenging would be getting a LUT box to work with displayport output... Perhaps this would be a good product for BM to create, a 3d LUT box for displayport connections.
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostMon Jul 08, 2019 6:03 pm

Whole print industry exists without dedicated preview and their setups as as accurate as video monitoring.
It's very possible to do it without dedicated card- all down to software developer to implement it.
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostTue Jul 23, 2019 11:26 am

Can I just add my 2-cents worth about the 2nd monitor display. Although I only use Resolve for voluntary/charity work, it's actually very rare, as the lack of 2nd display has kept me focussed on Adobe PP.

I don't really care about colour issues on the 2nd monitor (although both my screens are fully calibrated) -it allows me to regain some screen real-estate. Colour grading is always done on my primary screen.

When this is released, I'll be moving completely to Resolve and upgrading to Studio.

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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostMon Jul 29, 2019 8:10 pm

Nvidia GeForce RTX cards now support 10-bit color in Adobe

"This is very big news. Previously, you had to buy an expensive Quadro RTX card if you wanted to use a 10-bit HDR monitor during any kind of video or photo editing. Thanks to this update, GeForce RTX cards can now support a 10-bit HDR workflow."

https://www.videomaker.com/news/nvidia-geforce-rtx-cards-now-support-10-bit-color-in-adobe/
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostMon Jul 29, 2019 8:19 pm

Great news- this is about OpenGL (so what you really want), which use to reserved only for Quadro cards.
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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostTue Jul 30, 2019 6:26 pm

Is the full screen preview on 2nd monitor available yet and is it also on windows?

John
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostTue Jul 30, 2019 8:50 pm

Not yet.
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Al Spaeth

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Re: 8K SDI to Display Port and 2nd monitor display

PostWed Jul 31, 2019 11:58 am

We need it for HDR and REC2020 colour space.
What is HDR video?
https://www.videomaker.com/how-to/technology/what-is-hdr-video/
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