Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

We hope so. Please bear with us. We have not forgotten you.

As we said at IBC, we are working on finishing the general release for the Mini Pro. Pocket 4K will be next and we will also look at what other cameras we can get it into.

The good news for the URSA Mini 4.6K is the sensor profiling work is already done.

This was October 8, 2018. It was the hope that Blackmagic could do it. Then they started to doubt it based on hardware. Then the G2 came, and the original UM4.6K disappeared from the site. I think the nail is in the coffin.

Unless there is a 2019 Christmas Miracle. At this point my hope isn't too high. If it doesn't happen then let's expect it to never happen.

I'd rather get some of the Pocket updates in the UMPG2 in the next firmware update. This includes custom guides, the Pinch to Zoom up to 8X Magnification, and as well the preset 1:1 and 4:5 Frame Guide options. And, of course those pesky slate metadata updates I've requested.

It's been a fun ride. I've got my original 4.6K still being used as a B-Cam until I sell it. Once it sells I'm using the money for the Pocket 6K to become the B-Cam.

UP!!

We hope so. Please bear with us. We have not forgotten you.

As we said at IBC, we are working on finishing the general release for the Mini Pro. Pocket 4K will be next and we will also look at what other cameras we can get it into.

The good news for the URSA Mini 4.6K is the sensor profiling work is already done.

This was October 8, 2018. It was the hope that Blackmagic could do it. Then they started to doubt it based on hardware. Then the G2 came, and the original UM4.6K disappeared from the site. I think the nail is in the coffin.

Unless there is a 2019 Christmas Miracle. At this point my hope isn't too high. If it doesn't happen then let's expect it to never happen.

I'd rather get some of the Pocket updates in the UMPG2 in the next firmware update. This includes custom guides, the Pinch to Zoom up to 8X Magnification, and as well the preset 1:1 and 4:5 Frame Guide options. And, of course those pesky slate metadata updates I've requested.

It's been a fun ride. I've got my original 4.6K still being used as a B-Cam until I sell it. Once it sells I'm using the money for the Pocket 6K to become the B-Cam.

Been working with the 6k lately and BRAW is just amazing.

Come on Blackmagic, any update ? Even if it's bad news, at least we'll know what's going on.

Crickets...

Why invest money and brain-power in cameras that are no longer sold. If indeed its sensor has been mapped then the new V.A. would probably give it braw capacity, Plus money in BMD bank. I think this would be a fair deal for both sides.

Ricardo Marty

Takes no money or brain-power at all to just say "no we don't plan on doing it" and we can all get on with our lives.
But if I were to replace my URSA Mini and say a week later they come out with BRAW for it, that would break me for BM. No matter how illogical it would be to walk away I would be gone. Not one more cent.

Takes no money or brain-power at all to just say "no we don't plan on doing it" and we can all get on with our lives.
But if I were to replace my URSA Mini and say a week later they come out with BRAW for it, that would break me for BM. No matter how illogical it would be to walk away I would be gone. Not one more cent.

It takes time, money, and brains to retrofit the camera with braw. They said they will work on it but ithey did not say how. Braw with the new VA is a promise fulfilled. like it or not. You can buy a new camera or just the VA.

Ricardo Marty

Where is the new VA? I’m thinking of packaging the old 7” VA with the UM4.6K and getting the new HDR VA 7” for my G2.


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My original business plan was to keep the URSA Mini for 5 years and the buy a second camera. Things are going really well and I could be in a position to move that forward to 3 years, but if my old camera is not a workflow match for a new one why would I make the second camera a BM? What would have been a no brainer if BRAW was my default option is now an open question. By not putting BRAW on the Mini I'm free to pick any camera that takes my fancy. Thanks BM.

Takes no money or brain-power at all to just say "no we don't plan on doing it" and we can all get on with our lives.
But if I were to replace my URSA Mini and say a week later they come out with BRAW for it, that would break me for BM. No matter how illogical it would be to walk away I would be gone. Not one more cent.

It takes time, money, and brains to retrofit the camera with braw. They said they will work on it but ithey did not say how. Braw with the new VA is a promise fulfilled. like it or not. You can buy a new camera or just the VA.

Ricardo Marty

But these cameras can’t output raw. At least they would have to come out with new firmware. And I’m not sure you can fix that problem with a firmware update

They do output raw. I think you can record braw on the ssd recorder so maybe braw needs to be coming down the pipe.

They do output raw. I think you can record braw on the ssd recorder so maybe braw needs to be coming down the pipe.

I mean they can’t output raw on an external recorder, if that was the case then we would be able to use ProRes raw

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... /W-URSA-26

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursaminipro/techspecs/W-URSA-26

That’s just a recorder so instead of recording off cfast or usb ssd, that will allow you record off an actual ssd. I had one of those

One of us is struggling with the English language, not sure which one.

I would be happy to purchase the new assist if the option to record Braw off the original 4.6k will work problem is no one knows

One of us is struggling with the English language, not sure which one.

no one is struggling, you're just confused on what that product does. The video assist is what you're looking for. The SSD recording just allows you to record from an ssd. You're still internally recording from the camera. Right now none of these cameras can send a raw signal. The canon c300 mk II can send a raw signal to a recorder. But the c200 cant since it can record raw internally. Same thing with BMD cameras they have internal raw but cant output raw. There are not a lot of cameras that can output raw. I'm not sure if that can be fixed with a firmware update or if it's a hardware issue. But if it can be fixed with firmware then that's totally possible that the ursa mini 4.6k can do Braw with the video assist

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... /W-URSA-26

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursaminipro/techspecs/W-URSA-26

You keep posting this link, but the SSD recorder is not going to allow you to record BRAW from the first-generation Ursa Mini 4.6k unless that camera receives a firmware update to allow it to record BRAW. The ad copy is misleading, it says "Blackmagic URSA Mini SSD Recorder lets you record Blackmagic RAW or ProRes files onto standard 2.5” SSD Media with your URSA Mini Pro camera!" They should have specified "with your URSA Mini Pro G2 camera!"

The SSD recorder simply allows you to record your footage to an SSD instead of an SD card or CFast card. You set the codec and quality in the camera, not the recorder: for the original Ursa the choices are Prores or CDNG raw; in the Ursa G2 the choices are Prores or Blackmagic raw (BRAW). The SSD recorder will then record files in the codec you chose in the camera -- on the generation 1 Ursa it will record Prores and presumably it can also record CDNG; on the generation 2 Ursa it will record Prores or BRAW. It can't take CDNG from the original Ursa and magically transform it into BRAW. The manual makes this all pretty clear.

A camera doesnt need to record braw if it output sdi 4kraw the external recorder can record it in raw in any raw codecs. Just like atomos can do this to prores raw. If the ursa 4.6 outputs sdi raw the new va when updated will record it in braw. Otherwise you can input via hdmi and record in other non raw codecs.

Ricardo Marty

They do output raw. I think you can record braw on the ssd recorder so maybe braw needs to be coming down the pipe.

I mean they can’t output raw on an external recorder, if that was the case then we would be able to use ProRes raw

The OG 4.6K absolutely outputs serialized raw over SDI/coax to the BM Recorder. The reason there is no Prores RAW is a political limitation not a technical one. Whether or not the SSD could record braw while receiving raw is anyones's guess, it wasn't my point.

They do output raw. I think you can record braw on the ssd recorder so maybe braw needs to be coming down the pipe.

I mean they can’t output raw on an external recorder, if that was the case then we would be able to use ProRes raw

The OG 4.6K absolutely outputs serialized raw over SDI/coax to the BM Recorder. The reason there is no Prores RAW is a political limitation not a technical one. Whether or not the SSD could record braw while receiving raw is anyones's guess, it wasn't my point.

No the highest it can record is 10bit 4:2:2 not raw unless you can prove it otherwise. But the ssd recorder would not be the one to do that, the video assist would have that power

Camera 6.7 is out with BRAW support… for the URSA Broadcast. This was announced back at IBC so it was expected.

Edit: I’ll add that several of the new features added to the Broadcast were in the G2 and Pocket already. However, some of the most recent features added to the Pocket like the new frame guides and custom frame guides were also added, and those have yet to come to the G2. So, there will be one more update soon bringing those features to the G2. That’s the last firmware update to hold hope out on having BRAW for the UM4.6K. Otherwise, it will be time to give up.

No 8X Pinch to Zoom for Broadcast. I hope that is added to the G2 as well. That’s all.


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No the highest it can record is 10bit 4:2:2 not raw unless you can prove it otherwise. But the ssd recorder would not be the one to do that, the video assist would have that power

Do I need to explain this or can we be done?

SSDs.png (195.28 KiB) Viewed 13206 times

No the highest it can record is 10bit 4:2:2 not raw unless you can prove it otherwise. But the ssd recorder would not be the one to do that, the video assist would have that power

Do I need to explain this or can we be done?

SSDs.png

oh i get you you're still talking about the ssd recorder for some reason. What do you think the purpose ssd recorder is for?

Can we put the nails in the coffin of this VA and SSD recorder conversation here. The topic here is BRaw firmware fantasy update for the Usra. mini 4.6k.

So stop talking about actual realworld topics and let's stick to our fantasy topic of a imminent BRaw firmware update for the Ursa mini 4.6k.

P.s. only superceded by the " Turret" upgrade.



Doris.

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Can we put the nails in the coffin of this VA and SSD recorder conversation here. The topic here is BRaw firmware fantasy update for the Usra. mini 4.6k.

So stop talking about actual realworld topics and let's stick to our fantasy topic of a imminent BRaw firmware update for the Ursa mini 4.6k.

P.s. only superceded by the " Turret" upgrade.



Doris.

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The new VA is probably the only alternative to give the 4.5k ursa braw. So its very relevant to the topic.

Ricardo Marty

Today's firmware is probably the answer. It would have happened now if possible.

I remember buying into the whole "Flagship" original 4.6k... well that lasted for about 7 months with all of the cross hatching, pink magenta etc...

Just tell us if the new VA can caputre BRAW off the OG 4.6k already!

So frustrating!

I can't believe this has been abandoned by Blackmagic... I was so looking forward to my OG 4.6K to get BRAW. Switching to RED...

RED has upgrade paths for all its sensors, but also will change internal parts like the processor (from weapon MG to DSMC2) to get higher frame rates etc...

I'm so upset at Blackmagic for not supporting us...

But I must say, i adore resolve. and i really loved my ursa mini but i am just so jaded about this. Sorry for ranting.

Colton, while I share your anger about not getting the update, I hope you are having deep pockets when you are going to switch to RED.

New Komodo Is expected to be affordable, and has a lot of attractive features. Pricing not confirmed, however expected to be under 10K Canadian + A discount and first pick for us H1 early adopters.

Its a lot but i've been saving to upgrade from my Ursa for like 3 years now...

Komodo is 6K and uses cfast, canon batteries, has RF mount, and can use a phone as monitor. I have a lot more accessories and stuff as I've been an owner operator for over 6 years so I have tons of goodies to use on the new Komodo. As well as I have an EOS R so new glass as well as all my other lenses + their respective RF adapters.

Being an owner operator of any camera you need deep pockets

I mean i have easily put $25K into accessories and lenses and media etc for the ursa, and luckily, most if not all of it will translate over to the Komodo

I really do hope Blackmagic releases a large format sensor with an RF mount in a slightly smaller body, then I would upgrade to that rather than RED.

Sorry for my earlier post, I just couldn't believe there was 11 pages of people asking for support with no response! I've checked their website almost every weekend for a year expecting a BRAW update to no avail and finally saw this thread expecting some news, but no nothing

Being an owner operator of any camera you need deep pockets

That IS SO true
I'm owning 8 cameras of different ages/generations and rigging them up has been a bucket without a bottom.

Today's firmware is probably the answer. It would have happened now if possible.

Why will BMD service a camera tha no longer is sold. Its better business to offer a product that they can use. to upgrade .

Ricardo Marty

Today's firmware is probably the answer. It would have happened now if possible.

Why will BMD service a camera tha no longer is sold. Its better business to offer a product that they can use. to upgrade .

Ricardo Marty

Couldn't of put it any better.

However there are many members here who have so much faith in BM, that have been patiently waiting for over 1 year for this now fantasy BRaw update and when questioned about the logic of a company being prepared to still hand out free firmware updates for a discontinued piece of kit, these BM diehards quickly reply by giving examples of other brands who do indeed continue to support there discontinued equipment.
But what they forget is... This is BM. And IMO are not as customer focused long-term on products as those other brands.

And Why?

Put simply, BM make cheap! but great products! That basically work well.

" Pile them high, sell them cheap, then move on to the next product "

Don't expect anything more. Which is fine by me.

Mine and many other members Issue on this topic is a simple one.

Blackmagic! Open your mouths! and Talk! Just Communicate With your Customers!

Doris.

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BM response. 20th December 2019

A member shared BMs reply with me.

See below.

I'm sure BM support won't mind me sharing there email reply.


"""Thank you for your email.

At this moment in time, we have only announced Blackmagic RAW for the Ursa Mini Pro camera, and the new Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Cameras. We have not yet announced that this codec will be available for any of our older cameras.

I am afraid at this time, we cannot guarantee this codec will be available for any other cameras, and it is not something we have announced as a feature. This does not mean it will never happen, but I can only provide you with the information available to the Technical Support team as of this moment in time. No decisions are ever final so I do not believe we can provide you with a yes or no answer.

Please do not hesitate to contact us for any further reason.

Regards,

Callum Mclay
Technical Support Manager EMEA"""


The BM Broadcast Camera is now supported with BRaw.


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So there we still have a hope! My 4.6K would love to see BRAW next year.

BM response. 20th December 2019

A member shared BMs reply with me.

See below.

I'm sure BM support won't mind me sharing there email reply.


"""Thank you for your email.

At this moment in time, we have only announced Blackmagic RAW for the Ursa Mini Pro camera, and the new Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Cameras. We have not yet announced that this codec will be available for any of our older cameras.

I am afraid at this time, we cannot guarantee this codec will be available for any other cameras, and it is not something we have announced as a feature. This does not mean it will never happen, but I can only provide you with the information available to the Technical Support team as of this moment in time. No decisions are ever final so I do not believe we can provide you with a yes or no answer.

Please do not hesitate to contact us for any further reason.

Regards,

Callum Mclay
Technical Support Manager EMEA"""



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Great... More ambiguity. It's like, you waited for a year to hear so keep on waiting on us to let you know--

"Thank you sir, may I have another"

So basically their response is just like mine at this time in my life to any situation that isn't worth my time:

"I have the capability to do it, it's feasible. It's just not worth my time with everything else I have going on. If there's ever a rainy day where I'm sitting around and am bored and have a few hours and motivation to spare, it's possible I'll get it done."

Guys, they've already stated before the profile for the camera sensor has already been profiled. At this point it's just a matter of semantics and making it worth their time. I said it before and I'll say it again. Start a change.com petition/campaign or something demanding the product and showing a willingness to even pay for a days labor for a technician to make it worth his time and maybe they'll hear us. But sitting here whining and moping around like some weak beta males don't work with your girl and it ain't gonna work or get anything done here either...

I already said I'd be willing to pay a few hundred extra dollars for the upgrade. If a few thousand people did too, it'd be worth their time. Heck...I'd even buy a VA 12G to be able to record BRAW exertanally and have the bonus of an extra monitor (and ESPECIALLY if you leave my option to record cDNG)

I'm glad to see that hope hasn't completely died for BRAW on the UM4.6. But I'm not holding my breath either.

This process gradually turns to the ursa turret issue.

This process gradually turns to the ursa turret issue.

The turret thread maybe. By the time Braw was released the OG was eol. “The World’s First Interchangeable Sensor Camera!” is not the same thing as Tony saying “we’ll look into it”.

This process gradually turns to the ursa turret issue.

That's completely bogus. Not once did BMD PROMISE that it would be able to deliver Braw for the original 4.6K. That makes it a very different situation.

Happy New Year Everyone!

I'm looking forward to the Roaring 20's. I have 2020 Vision in mind... haha.

Moving past the Original URSA Mini 4.6K I have a lot of faith in the Blackmagic Design Cameras. I can't wait to see where they go next.

Yeah, BMD will probably have something exciting in store for spring time, to be introduced shortly before NAB and demoed there.

Hahaha ...Just shows how moribund this thread is .lol.

D.

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I can't believe this has been abandoned by Blackmagic... I was so looking forward to my OG 4.6K to get BRAW. Switching to RED...

You do realize that the reason why any of this madness is happening is because of RED?

You're doing exactly what RED wanted to accomplish by suing every camera vendor and Apple ProRes RAW Codec vendor. I think possibly ~$2,000 of every RED camera sales goes to their patent troll lawfirm.

On a technical level I think BM can patch the camera to support BRAW but I think they can't do it on a IPR level as BRAW can't be compressed raw in some way where a RED lawyer can argue there is RAW and compression involved, while other models it's no longer originally raw when coming from sensor/ADC - thus available.

It would probably break their whole BRAW "thing" if deployed on older cameras incapable of compression and de-bayer in one shot.

so glad i waited and got me the the pocket 6k, its everything i ever wanted

If it's possible I prefer to keep the DNG option but to have the new color science v4 rather than the v3 in the genuine 4,6K. It will be easier to match with the actual BM lineup. Is it possible for BM to upgrade the color science as they already did in the past for this camera ?

You're doing exactly what RED wanted to accomplish by suing every camera vendor and Apple ProRes RAW Codec vendor. I think possibly ~$2,000 of every RED camera sales goes to their patent troll lawfirm.

You might have set a record for inanity here...

On a technical level I think BM can patch the camera to support BRAW but I think they can't do it on a
IPR level as BRAW can't be compressed raw in some way where a RED lawyer can argue there is RAW and compression involved, while other models it's no longer originally raw when coming from sensor/ADC - thus available.

The fact that the newer cameras with more powerful processors DO support braw completely invalidates this statement.

Black Magic has a history of adding features to its cameras if they're able to handle them, but there's no way that BMD can retroactively add computing power to an existing camera.