ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

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PhotoJoseph

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ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostFri Feb 14, 2020 11:29 pm

Is anyone using an ATEM Mini with GoToWebinar or GoToMeeting? I've just tried this and am getting a cropped image from the Mini as a "webcam".

Here's what I mean. This is Skype, looking at the ATEM Mini. You are seeing the full width of the feed from the ATEM:

Screen Shot 2020-02-14 at 15.15.17.png
ATEM Mini in Skype
Screen Shot 2020-02-14 at 15.15.17.png (663.19 KiB) Viewed 12658 times


And here's what you see in GoToWebinar or GoToMeeting… first, in 16:9 mode:

Screen Shot 2020-02-14 at 15.25.34.png
ATEM Mini in GoToMeeting 16:9
Screen Shot 2020-02-14 at 15.25.34.png (411.59 KiB) Viewed 12658 times


And here it is in 4:3 mode:

Screen Shot 2020-02-14 at 15.25.39.png
ATEM Mini in GoToMeeting 4:3
Screen Shot 2020-02-14 at 15.25.39.png (511.07 KiB) Viewed 12658 times


You can see how much it's cropped. If you compare a regular webcam (i.e. a Logitech C920), the image in Skype and GTW are identical.

Any ideas on why this would happen and how to solve it?
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostSat Feb 15, 2020 12:35 am

Logically, I tried taking the HDMI out of the ATEM Mini and converting that to USB using an epiphan av.io and GoToWebinar sees the full signal that way, just as it does with a cheap webcam. So it seems like there's some miscommunication between GTW and the ATEM, which I'm guessing is GTW's problem since their software is the only one I've seen with this issue. I've already had a conversation with them and they are at a loss… very curious to see if anyone here knows more!
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostSat Feb 15, 2020 5:24 am

I am experiencing the same issue with Zoom.us. Haven’t tried the HDMI out from the ATEM mini but will give that a shot on Monday.


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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped

PostSat Feb 15, 2020 7:40 pm

nickwalkr wrote:I am experiencing the same issue with Zoom.us. Haven’t tried the HDMI out from the ATEM mini but will give that a shot on Monday.


Really! that's interesting… I had tested before, and just did again, and Zoom.us is fine. I'm seeing the full image. I'm on macOS Catalina 10.15.3 and Zoom version 4.5.9. You?
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostSat Feb 15, 2020 8:50 pm

I love how UVC was supposed the be the savior. :lol:
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostSat Feb 15, 2020 11:38 pm

Just to let everyone know the ATEM Mini does not crop or flip the image. This is done by the streaming software that has control. There are softwares that do not do this with the Mini.

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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostSun Feb 16, 2020 12:23 pm

Joseph Linaschke wrote:
nickwalkr wrote:I am experiencing the same issue with Zoom.us. Haven’t tried the HDMI out from the ATEM mini but will give that a shot on Monday.


Really! that's interesting… I had tested before, and just did again, and Zoom.us is fine. I'm seeing the full image. I'm on macOS Catalina 10.15.3 and Zoom version 4.5.9. You?


Here no problems at all with Zoom.us.
Just some times depending on your zoom.us video screen aspect ratio you will see some parts of the image cropped.
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostSun Feb 16, 2020 8:29 pm

rogersuski wrote:I love how UVC was supposed the be the savior. :lol:


UVC?


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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostSun Feb 16, 2020 8:32 pm

Gary Adams wrote:Just to let everyone know the ATEM Mini does not crop or flip the image. This is done by the streaming software that has control. There are softwares that do not do this with the Mini.


Thanks Gary. No doubt in my mind this is a GoToWebinar issue and not a BMD issue, but still trying to resolve it. Do you have any idea why this would happen? Is there any reason you can think of ghat GTW would be cropping the ATEM’s image?


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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostMon Feb 17, 2020 10:38 am

We regularly see the same issue with a BMD UltraStudio USB3 or Mini Recorder on first opening Wirecast. The solution has always been to click on "Scale to Fit", even when the input and Canvas (i.e. preview and programme monitoring) resolutions are the same. Same thing sometimes happens with a black input - switching the Monitoring button off and on cures it. In a word, find a way to "give it a kick".
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostMon Feb 17, 2020 1:20 pm

RichardJolly wrote:We regularly see the same issue with a BMD UltraStudio USB3 or Mini Recorder on first opening Wirecast. The solution has always been to click on "Scale to Fit", even when the input and Canvas (i.e. preview and programme monitoring) resolutions are the same. Same thing sometimes happens with a black input - switching the Monitoring button off and on cures it. In a word, find a way to "give it a kick".


Unfortunately the GTW interface doesn’t have a kick button… or scale to fit for that matter. The only choice is to switch between 16:9 and 4:3. Using the ATEM, as you can see from the screenshots above, 4:3 is already cropped on the sides, and 16:9 additionally crops the top and bottom. With a regular webcam, 16:9 is the full image and 4:3 is cropped on the sides.

I’ve tried reconnecting the hardware and relaunching software and toggling between cameras. No love.

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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostWed Feb 19, 2020 12:48 am

I am getting the same issue here in GTW! I used Cam Twist to try to solve this, but the video quality was poor. My idea is creat about 15 DIY kits for VC's rooms with two Black Magic Micro cameras and a Laptop with ppt with GTW. So, at the moment I am in the point zero again! I have been contact GTW and nothing until the momente.

Someone had some news about this issue?

FIY

Cam Twist worked with no crop when I set up the output for 720p!

The Atem Mini output is only 1080!

Can be some problems with resolution incompatibility?

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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostWed Feb 19, 2020 3:41 pm

thiago_afc wrote:Cam Twist worked with no crop when I set up the output for 720p!


Yeah, that could well be. I think that GTW’s claim of “HD” is BS. Here’s what Support shared with me yesterday:

Anyone with an Internet connection and a webcam can use HDFaces in GoToMeeting sessions. You can start sharing video with a single click; our Multistream HD technology provides up to 6 video streams at a resolution of 640p x 480p each, for a total maximum resolution of 1920p x 960p.

Here’s what I replied:

So up to six cameras… OK, but if I’m using one camera, does that mean it’s at 1920x960? And I can’t even imagine why that odd resolution… but OK… so if I have ONE camera, is it 1920x960, or is it 640x480 scaled up to 1920x960? Incidentally, 640x480 is a 4:3 ratio (and not even marginally HD; that’s SD through and through), and 1920x960 is a 2:1 ratio, while actual HD is 1920x1080, a 16:9 ratio. I’m so confused.

Their technical explanation really doesn’t make any sense to me, but it does tell me that they are NOT actually taking in a 1920x1080 feed. After comparing aspect ratios and how bad a computer screen shared through the ATEM looks once it’s on GTW, here’s my working theory: It appears they are center punching 4:3 crop of the image, possibly scaling that down to 640x480, cropping that for 16:9, then scaling that up to 1920x960, but only using a piece of it. I mean that sounds utterly ridiculous but nothing else adds up.

Sadly what this ultimately means, I think, is that I can NOT use the ATEM to switch between a camera and a screen, which was my intention. Their screen sharing is soft, but this scaling is way softer. I wanted to go full screen between camera and computer, not have their side-by-side view, but I don’t think that’s going to be possible now. Lame.
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostWed Feb 19, 2020 4:06 pm

1920X960 is a 3:2 grid of 640x480. Your six streams are Hollywood Squares. I’d wager anything going through that pipe gets cropped and scaled to 640x480 then put in the box next to Shadoe Stevens for the win.

Good Luck

Edit: The crop is likely due to first cropping 16:9 to 4:3. The footage is then cropped again going from 4:3 to 16:9.
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostWed Feb 19, 2020 7:55 pm

Howard Roll wrote:1920X960 is a 3:2 grid of 640x480. Your six streams are Hollywood Squares. I’d wager anything going through that pipe gets cropped and scaled to 640x480 then put in the box next to Shadoe Stevens for the win.


Ah, I hadn’t noticed that math. OK, that makes a lot more sense now. Geez the nerve of calling it HD.
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped

PostThu Feb 20, 2020 2:22 am

Joseph Linaschke wrote:
rogersuski wrote:I love how UVC was supposed the be the savior. :lol:

UVC?
UVC is short for USB Video Class which specifies a standardized way to transmit video over a USB port:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_video_device_class

This is what makes it possible to use the USB output from the ATEM Mini or other USB video class devices across different computers without needing to install device drivers (the support for UVC standards are already built into all of the major operating systems). The USB video device class specifications were probably most widely implemented in webcams, although they have also been used in various USB video capture devices as well.

Even though the USB Video Device Class protocol is standardized, there is actually a lot of flexibility in terms of the video stream formats that devices can support (including the resolution, frame rate, aspect ratio, color space, and even compression codec). To accommodate this range of possibilities, the USB video class drivers (built-in to the OS), will typically probe the attached USB video device to determine what video formats are supported by the device. And then the application (going through the UVC driver) will set the current video properties to use on the device when streaming video from it over USB.
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped

PostThu Feb 20, 2020 5:51 am

Dave Del Vecchio wrote:UVC is short for USB Video Class which specifies a standardized way to transmit video over a USB port…


Thanks for the lesson! Interesting for sure. And now I get the sarcasm ;-)

Sadly no closer to resolving this and unless a bunch of people complain to GTW I don't see them caring. Unless we could prove it's a BMD issue and get them to look into it.

fun. Thanks everyone.
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostTue Feb 25, 2020 8:14 pm

Thanks for the info here.

My problem is GTW or GTM will recognize the BlackMagic Design in the drop down menu to choose a camera, but then the image never shows up. It just keeps showing a spinning wheel as if it is trying to load the signal.

Any tricks for how you got the signal to show up in GTW?

Using a Canon R800 Camcorder currently to test the system.
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostTue Feb 25, 2020 10:11 pm

nikwashere wrote:Thanks for the info here.

My problem is GTW or GTM will recognize the BlackMagic Design in the drop down menu to choose a camera, but then the image never shows up. It just keeps showing a spinning wheel as if it is trying to load the signal.

Any tricks for how you got the signal to show up in GTW?

Using a Canon R800 Camcorder currently to test the system.


Oh interesting. I have not seen that happen. But given my and others' experience, unless you're able to go wide on that camera so the GTW system crops to what you actually want to show, there may not be much point in trying to get it to work.

However unfortunately I can't really offer any other advice… except to ask that you can see the ATEM in Skype or some other service? Oh do make sure that none of those other services are running -- some apps won't share the signal and hijack it once they have it.
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostTue Mar 03, 2020 9:58 am

nikwashere wrote:Thanks for the info here.

My problem is GTW or GTM will recognize the BlackMagic Design in the drop down menu to choose a camera, but then the image never shows up. It just keeps showing a spinning wheel as if it is trying to load the signal.

Any tricks for how you got the signal to show up in GTW?

Using a Canon R800 Camcorder currently to test the system.


I have the same problem like nikwashere. I tried it in GoToMeeting and GoToWebinar. None of both works and I'm just seeing the spinning wheel. :twisted:
It works in Skype without cropping. Any more ideas why GTM/GTW don't work?
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostMon Mar 16, 2020 2:33 pm

nikwashere wrote:My problem is GTW or GTM will recognize the BlackMagic Design in the drop down menu to choose a camera, but then the image never shows up. It just keeps showing a spinning wheel as if it is trying to load the signal.


Same thing here.

ATEM Mini works in a virtual webcam software that can then be mapped into GoToMeeting. Unfortunately then there's almost a second of lag. :(

The GoToMeeting browser plugin recognizes the ATEM Mini but flips the input horizontally with no way of changing this setting :x
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostMon Mar 16, 2020 5:56 pm

nikwashere wrote:My problem is GTW or GTM will recognize the BlackMagic Design in the drop down menu to choose a camera, but then the image never shows up. It just keeps showing a spinning wheel as if it is trying to load the signal.


kkta80 wrote:I have the same problem like nikwashere. I tried it in GoToMeeting and GoToWebinar. None of both works and I'm just seeing the spinning wheel.


PaulDash wrote:Same thing here.


Wow so interesting that this isn't working at all for so many of you. I'll reiterate again that there's not much point in struggling with it since it crops the image, but if somehow that's OK with you, I'm sharing my configuration that is working:
  • macOS 10.15.3 (19D76)
  • GoToMeeting Version 10.8.0 Build 16786
  • ATEM Software version 8.1.1

PaulDash wrote:The GoToMeeting browser plugin recognizes the ATEM Mini but flips the input horizontally with no way of changing this setting :x


Typically when you see that in an app it's just the preview, set up for your own "benefit" of fixing your hair and not feeling like it's backwards (so it's like looking in a mirror). Usually this is not seen on the broadcast. Have you tried broadcasting?
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostWed Mar 18, 2020 1:53 pm

Similar question here:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=108170&p=604297#p604297

If you're having issues with GTM/GTW not working at all, that might be a better place to discuss. Sorry @PhotoJoseph for hijacking cropping thread.
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostWed Mar 18, 2020 7:38 pm

PaulDash wrote:Similar question here:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=108170&p=604297#p604297

If you're having issues with GTM/GTW not working at all, that might be a better place to discuss. Sorry @PhotoJoseph for hijacking cropping thread.


Not at all, that's fine.
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostWed Nov 11, 2020 12:27 pm

Hey Joseph,

Firstly thx for doing tutorials on YT, nice work :-)

Secondly, I don't use the software you mentioned, but I have a similar problem with my GoPro that doesn't show the superview mode. Instead (although it says it's on superview) it shows the wide mode, so it's sort of cropped too :-S

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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostWed Nov 11, 2020 4:43 pm

Borissimo wrote:Hey Joseph,

Firstly thx for doing tutorials on YT, nice work :-)


Thanks!

Borissimo wrote:Secondly, I don't use the software you mentioned, but I have a similar problem with my GoPro that doesn't show the superview mode. Instead (although it says it's on superview) it shows the wide mode, so it's sort of cropped too

Where do you see the cropped view, since you're not using GoToWebinar?
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostWed Nov 18, 2020 4:35 pm

I used GTW for the first time yesterday. Cropping is still an issue. Running Catalina on a 2015 MacBook Pro. 1080P camera signal (input 2) and PPT out of 2012 MacBook Pro (input 1) HDMI into ATEM Mini Pro (latest updates). We were live to 100 people for an educational seminar. We had to scramble to scale down PPT slides and zoom the camera waaaaayyyyy out to make it look right. How can GTW have not solved this problem by now?
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostFri Nov 20, 2020 6:28 pm

Jayhawk Theatre wrote:I used GTW for the first time yesterday. Cropping is still an issue. Running Catalina on a 2015 MacBook Pro. 1080P camera signal (input 2) and PPT out of 2012 MacBook Pro (input 1) HDMI into ATEM Mini Pro (latest updates). We were live to 100 people for an educational seminar. We had to scramble to scale down PPT slides and zoom the camera waaaaayyyyy out to make it look right. How can GTW have not solved this problem by now?


Apparently it's not just GTW. I'd love to hear something from BlackMagic, to know if they have any idea why it's happening and if there's anything that they can do about it!
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostSat Nov 21, 2020 3:59 am

PhotoJoseph, probably unrelated, but I fixed my issues with Web-Ex by using the HDMI Out on the ATEM Mini into an Elgato Camlink then into my laptop. The beauty of this solution is two-fold: 1) it probably won't fix your particular problem, and 2) it lets you purchase another piece of hardware you don't want.

Also a big fan of your channel!
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostMon Nov 23, 2020 5:59 pm

I just tried my AMP Iso in Zoom and I have the same cropped issue. I have no problem if I run the ATEM through vMix or OBS and use their virtual cameras in Zoom, but I can't use my ATEM directly. I'm using the HDMI out to a desktop capture card (Flint 4k). This setup works like a charm, but not with the ATEM directly.
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostThu Jan 28, 2021 5:45 pm

ward@wardcameron.com wrote:I just tried my AMP Iso in Zoom and I have the same cropped issue. I have no problem if I run the ATEM through vMix or OBS and use their virtual cameras in Zoom, but I can't use my ATEM directly. I'm using the HDMI out to a desktop capture card (Flint 4k). This setup works like a charm, but not with the ATEM directly.


That's surprising… Zoom has always worked fine for me. It's just GoToWebinar that has the crop issue.
https://youtube.com/photojoseph

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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostFri Oct 15, 2021 9:00 am

Just experienced the same with Zoom live events.
Receiver side sees a cropped window.

Will try "fit to scale" this afternoon and report back.
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Watchman

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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostTue Nov 09, 2021 9:13 pm

Just to touch base in November 2021, GoToWebinar is still cropping the USB output of my ATEM Mini Pro. Fortunately I had an older 2017 (non-HD) BMD Web Presenter. Going HDMI out from ATEM Mini Pro into the older Web Presenter and USB/Webcam out of the Web Presenter into GoToWebinar allows me to share the full frame. One major drawback is that I lose my Multiview out of the ATEM because I have to use Program out of the HDMI to feed the Web Presenter. So I'm sorta flying blind and limiting myself to simple keys and wipes.

I suspect this workaround succeeds because the output of the older, non-HD Web Presenter is 1280x720 via USB. I can't swear that that's the reason it works, but it is certainly my best guess at this point. I have a Web Presenter HD that I will try tomorrow and see if 1080p output once again makes GTW crop the webcam image.

-Thom
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostThu Nov 11, 2021 12:11 am

I have the first web presenter as well, but 720p isn't enough for my clients with pro accounts.

Please report back if you succeed with the HD.

Would prefer to solve the problem without cascading a web presenter
behind the ATEM, though.
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostMon Sep 26, 2022 3:28 pm

I know this is an old thread, but maybe this will help someone.

I've been having the same problems with GoToWebinar as the OP. Ran some tests and I can confirm that GoToWebinar crops a webcam that runs on higher resolutions than 1280x720 to 1280x720. It doesn't scale, it just crops. So if you have a 4k input, the resulting image will be a tiny crop and if you have a 1920x1080, the crop will be a larger portion of the source.

The solution, which could be achieved in multiple ways, is to downscale the output. I was running the ATEM output through OBS and just downscaled the output from there.

Otherwise, you'd have to use a hardware scaler.
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostMon Sep 26, 2022 5:29 pm

twillfast wrote:I know this is an old thread, but maybe this will help someone.


oh heck, it's CROPPING it down to 720p? How funny, I never realized that's what it was doing. I've just zoomed the lens out for my GTW presentations, but this is really good to know. Thanks!
https://youtube.com/photojoseph

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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostThu Nov 03, 2022 2:29 am

OMG totally spent an hour on the phone today with GoTo trying to get the ATEM Mini Pro working with their software. In a desperate search for answers I stumbled on this thread. Looks like after 2 years nothing has been fixed with this. Guess GoTo gave up on trying to compete with Zoom and never got around to fixing their software issues.

In today’s call I allowed GoTo to login and take control. The tech could clearly see that ATEM Mini Pro is working correctly as it is showing up as a webcam in Windows camera app. Then oddly enough it shows up in some version of GoTo’s software, either web based or their meeting app but when trying to use the desktop version of their webinar program… “Camera in use by another program” or “Can’t initiate webcam”. The tech uninstalled and reinstalled their software a bunch of times to no avail. He then sent a message to his supervisor. The reply: “Remove all software that may use the webcam and update any Windows updates.” This is after I told him I came across a similar issue and using OBS to change the resolution. He didn’t seem to know of the issue that is 2 years old. Crazy. I tried using OBS solution on Windows with the ATEM and GoTo but just get a black screen in GoTo or a spinning thing looking for the camera.

Anyway I decided to plug in the ATUM Mini Pro to a Macbook and it instantly worked (well it saw it as a webcam finally). Then the client noticed that the slideshow is cropped, a lot. I figured it was just center cropping or something to make it a lower res to work. After seeing these posts, it looks like that is what is happening.

So frustrating. Spent most of the day trying to make this work, should send the bill to GoTo. Unfortunately I need to use GoTo for this project.

Well the gig is next week so if anyone happens to see this and has any great advice, love and appreciate to hear it. Meanwhile will keep plugging away to make something work and hopefully will post my findings.

Cheers Everyone!

Oh and PhotoJoseph, just found your channel and the Mini Master class… my initial reaction to the first 5 minutes was falling on the floor and crying (my wife asking if I just died) about watching yet another tutorial after watching endless tutorials on the ATEM to get this thing working… But of course I’m going to watch it, with a big bowl of popcorn and endless bottles of scotch and I’ll love every minute of it. Thank You PhotoJoseph for your hard work!
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Re: ATEM Mini + GoToWebinar = cropped "webcam"?

PostFri Nov 04, 2022 10:29 pm

blacklabimaging wrote:Well the gig is next week so if anyone happens to see this and has any great advice, love and appreciate to hear it. Meanwhile will keep plugging away to make something work and hopefully will post my findings.

I have to use GTW for client webinars that I host, and so specifically for this I put a zoom lens on that camera. I normally never change the FoV but when I do GTW shows, I have to zoom out to accommodate. This is of course JUST showing my face, not a screen share. You can't do a screen share through the ATEM into GTW because of the crop. But also, the resolution is such crap that you probably wouldn't want to anyway. Just share your screen using GTW's own screen sharing. I know it's not what you want to do, but it's what you have to do.

blacklabimaging wrote:Oh and PhotoJoseph, just found your channel and the Mini Master class… my initial reaction to the first 5 minutes was falling on the floor and crying (my wife asking if I just died) about watching yet another tutorial after watching endless tutorials on the ATEM to get this thing working… But of course I’m going to watch it, with a big bowl of popcorn and endless bottles of scotch and I’ll love every minute of it. Thank You PhotoJoseph for your hard work!

haha thanks man. Did you find the newest one, v4? That's the fourth (and shortest) one. Here's a playlist with the rest of 'em if you really want to dip into the popcorn and whiskey ;-) https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... UB5rMBxrfU
https://youtube.com/photojoseph

Resolve Studio 18.6.5
macOS Sonoma 14.2.1
MacBook Pro M2 Max
96GB RAM
Blackmagic Cloud Store Mini on 10gb network
Synology RS1221+ 10gb
Blackmagic UltraStudio 4K Mini
ATOMOS NEON 4K reference monitor

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