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Will Fusion ever really work?

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Sander

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Will Fusion ever really work?

PostThu Feb 20, 2020 6:06 am

So I have been trying many times to get Fusion inside of Resolve to work for motion graphics, or even just to make simple titles and it has been an 'interesting' experience. I has kind of left me head scratching as to what the intention of it is. It's not that there's just a small number of bugs or inconveniences. The whole thing just feels more like a proof of concept than actually finished software.

First of all: I really would like this to work. I would love to have an alternative to After Effects. And also Resolve needs a way to make titles. Premiere works with After Effects, FCPX works with Motion, Resolve needs something.

Just a few examples for those who haven't tried themselves:
- Try adjust a value inside a box: if there's no slider (for instance x and y value of text!) you can put the cursor in there and move the mouse to adjust the value but if you move too far (invisible off screen?) the value jumps to something impossible big. Then you have to click in de box and try to find a value that make sense again (how about 0? was it 1? no it's 0.5!). This makes adjusting values very slow and frustrating. Just to position your text.
- Opening a fusion composition: the only way seems to be to put the timeline cursor over the clip and then click the fusion tab but then it will open the top most clip. So if your composition is under something you are left wondering what to do.Double click doesn't work, as does right click and you can't open a composition from the media pool... Instead the only way seems to be to HIDE any clip on top and then go to the Fusion tab. Is that really how it was intended to work?
- The text box is small and you can't type on-screen in a Fusion composition, you also can't format text within a text element so for every font change you need to make a new element and merge and so on
- A text size of 1 is HUGE, normal text size is something like 0.04. Why?

I could go on and on but my objective here is not to complain, it's kind of free after all?

There's some good things as well, like the shading tab gives a lot of options for automatic font styling that would be difficult to do in After Effects without plugins and I am happy that Adobe fonts now actually work in Fusion.

But I am just left wondering if it makes any sense to invest more time in learning Fusion or if I should just give up? Will a next version of Resolve fix all these things or is the focus now on new features like a Cut page and is Fusion left as is?
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Uli Plank

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Re: Will Fusion ever really work?

PostSun Feb 23, 2020 2:16 am

Try the standalone version and use VFX Connect.
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SandroSchreiber

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Re: Will Fusion ever really work?

PostMon Feb 24, 2020 12:18 pm

Sander wrote:- Try adjust a value inside a box: if there's no slider (for instance x and y value of text!) you can put the cursor in there and move the mouse to adjust the value but if you move too far (invisible off screen?) the value jumps to something impossible big. Then you have to click in de box and try to find a value that make sense again (how about 0? was it 1? no it's 0.5!). This makes adjusting values very slow and frustrating. Just to position your text.


This problem exists on every page, not only in Fusion.
Take a look at this discussion:
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=95909

The problem seems to only exist on Windows and Linux. In Bob's GIF you can see what exactly happens with the cursor.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Will Fusion ever really work?

PostTue Feb 25, 2020 1:42 am

Ah, sorry, I'm on a Mac.
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Sander

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Re: Will Fusion ever really work?

PostTue Feb 25, 2020 3:08 am

I'm on a Mac too.

Anyway, the point was not a single issue - it's the whole experience. Everything seems to be disconnected.

Since there's no answer from anyone in charge I am going to assume things are just what they are.

Such a shame really, I've been using Resolve since Blackmagic bought it and in the beginning it was really solid and reliable. Resolve is still great for color grading but without a solution for graphics it's not a proper editing suite. Making titles outside of Resolve is not a solution either - there's not even a proper way to refresh footage!

Maybe it's a cyclic thing, I seem to be moving between FCPX, Premiere and Resolve every few years depending on which of the three is currently doing well.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Will Fusion ever really work?

PostTue Feb 25, 2020 4:21 am

VFX Connect is a way to refresh and you can even trick it into accepting footage from other compositing software,
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GregAusina

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Re: Will Fusion ever really work?

PostTue Feb 25, 2020 8:06 am

It’s true that After effects is way ahead of fusion when it comes to text motion graphics. Fusion text+ UI is almost impossible to use because of its size. And the character level styling is not convenient at all. If text text was editable « on screen » fusion would be a real game changer because adding simple text after edit is really something everybody needs.


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Sander

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Re: Will Fusion ever really work?

PostWed Feb 26, 2020 2:28 am

But I assume with VFX connect I would have to buy the stand-alone version of Fusion and I still don't get a preview of how text over my footage would look unless I make a clip a Fusion clip, right? Which then limits my editing possibilities.

I just want a way to put text over my footage and animate it. I want the options of formatting and positioning of the 'text' generator in the 'text+' generator. Not neither one of them does the job.

Fusion inside Resolve has the potential to be an After Effects alternative and people urgently need that with Adobe focussing on profit maximization instead of innovation. Which makes it all the more frustrating since all the tools seem to be there in Fusion but they just don't work.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Will Fusion ever really work?

PostWed Feb 26, 2020 4:59 am

I'm quite familiar with AE, and while it's still ahead in the text department, Fusion inside Resolve is not really that bad. Can you tell please us about your hardware?
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Sander

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Re: Will Fusion ever really work?

PostFri Feb 28, 2020 3:19 am

I have a top of the line 2019 iMac: 8 core i9, 40 GB RAM, Radeon Pro Vega 48 8GB

If you think it is not that bad then please tell me how you do titles and graphics over video inside of Resolve. Maybe I am missing something here but I can't figure it out.
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: Will Fusion ever really work?

PostSun Mar 01, 2020 8:35 am

Sander wrote:But I assume with VFX connect I would have to buy the stand-alone version of Fusion and I still don't get a preview of how text over my footage would look unless I make a clip a Fusion clip, right? Which then limits my editing possibilities.

I just want a way to put text over my footage and animate it. I want the options of formatting and positioning of the 'text' generator in the 'text+' generator. Not neither one of them does the job.

Fusion inside Resolve has the potential to be an After Effects alternative and people urgently need that with Adobe focussing on profit maximization instead of innovation. Which makes it all the more frustrating since all the tools seem to be there in Fusion but they just don't work.


Fusion studio come with resolve studio license.
Also in after effects you should build in the text and go on premiere to see how is, only with essential graphics you have primitive ability to change.
Interactivity is not main point of after premiere couple, only after effects animator for text are game changer, external plugin to after.
I use both from since twenty five years, I teach them from twenty, they are far far to be really integrated and fluid to use. There are many troubles when you work hard in them, from cache that need to be clean every x time to some weirdness of premiere during caching or rendering DL of after combo. Fusion is far to be a after replacement for title, but is not so worst against problems of premiere and after.



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brunocbreis

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Re: Will Fusion ever really work?

PostTue Jun 16, 2020 4:43 pm

- Try adjust a value inside a box: I've had that issue, too. Annoying!!!
- Opening a fusion composition: you can go to effects: fusion composition and drag it to the timeline. you can also right click and create a new comp from scratch from the media pool, which you can open in fusion and then drag to your timeline. you can also turn any clip or combination of clips in the timeline into a fusion comp by right clicking (it creates sort of a nested timeline).
- you also can't format text within a text element... yes you can. but it's VERY awkward. you have to right click the text element and choose modify with: character level styling. it could be much better though
- A text size of 1 is HUGE, normal text size is something like 0.04. Why? because fusion works with sizes relative to the frame. so a text of size one has a character height of about one times the height of your comp's resolution, which is awkwardly huge. this is very useful though cause it makes your comps resolution independent, so a text of a certain size in 4K will look the same in a 1080p timeline!
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Trensharo

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Re: Will Fusion ever really work?

PostTue Jun 16, 2020 8:48 pm

Didn't Adobe have similar innovations to BMD in the AE release just prior to DVR's announcement? I don't think the issue is lack of innovation. They actually do decently, there. It's more the pricing model that some people don't want to deal with - because alternatives (like DVR/Fusion, FCPX/Motion) are a relatively cheap/up-front cost and they do Motion Graphics "Good Enough" (although I'd rank Fusion behind both AE and Motion for that kind of work - VFX is a different matter).
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Vladimir LaFortune

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Re: Will Fusion ever really work?

PostThu Jun 18, 2020 12:55 pm

You can always revert to Fusion 9 if you are on Windows, on Mac I'm not sure how that works.

I would like to add a question will Fusion get any more additional features cause it's been a while. In the mean time I had to switch to Nuke for some other reasons and I hate every minute of it until I need to utilize a single node for something that would require you half a dozens of nodes in Fusion. That's what additional features are, time savers.
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drswoboda

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Re: Will Fusion ever really work?

PostMon Jun 22, 2020 6:47 pm

Sander wrote:snip...

Just a few examples for those who haven't tried themselves:
- Try adjust a value inside a box: if there's no slider (for instance x and y value of text!) you can put the cursor in there and move the mouse to adjust the value but if you move too far (invisible off screen?) the value jumps to something impossible big. Then you have to click in de box and try to find a value that make sense again (how about 0? was it 1? no it's 0.5!). This makes adjusting values very slow and frustrating. Just to position your text.


Longtime Fusion user here. I have been using it since it's early DOS days, over 20 years ago. It is not proof of concept software. That said, Standalone is more robust and Resolve version has many UI gripes.

But concerning the changing of values, the CTRL key is your friend. When adjusting values if you hold the CTRL key and DRAG the values change at a slower rate. This is also true when you DRAG the widgets in the viewports. Which by the way, is a fast, easy and visual way to adjust transform values with feedback. Adjusting the TEXT position(or any transform) is far easier with the in-viewport widgets (With or without a CTRL modifier).

Also, you need to get your head around Fusion's coordinate system as it is on a scale of 0-1 for resolution independence. This means that defaults for transforms are 0.5, 0.5 which is the center of the frame, not pixels from the edge. I think this is called "Normalised" coordinates? AE is based on pixels and while its easier to deal with, its not as flexible as what Fusion does. The history of Fusion is high-end VFX compositing, not motion graphics. That said it is a very powerful tool that does great motion graphics, but you need to get out of AE mode and into Fusion mode. It has a learning curve, but it is usually worth it.

I hope this helps.
-David
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Jeff Ha

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Re: Will Fusion ever really work?

PostWed Jun 24, 2020 3:00 pm

I think the hard cold reality is, Fusion will never really compete with AE for motion graphics.

The fact that BMD doesn't charge more or charge more often for Fusion means it's a backseat product they keep around to make Resolve more attractive and can use as a reason to provide little feature development for the product. I'm not saying it's right but it appears it's the direction BMD chose after they purchased Fusion years ago. They meant for it to fit inside Resolve, along with Fairlight to make Resolve more attractive and a full suite.
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Jason Conrad

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Re: Will Fusion ever really work?

PostTue Jun 30, 2020 7:38 pm

Jeff Ha wrote:I think the hard cold reality is, Fusion will never really compete with AE for motion graphics.


Fusion is fundamentally more analogous to Nuke for VFX than AE for MG. There's the whole node vs layer thing, for one. But also, in VFX, there's less emphasis on repetition. Every CG squib must look unique to be believable. Whereas, a lower third needs to be quick, repeatable, and easily edited. BlackMagic is implementing mograph-centric features like keyframeStretcher and edit templates. Only time will tell if they'll be able to round out the product. I hope so.
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Sam Steti

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Re: Will Fusion ever really work?

PostThu Jul 02, 2020 11:19 am

Hey,

6-7 years heavy user here, and my opinion is not far from drswoboda's one here...

Actually, I'm not seeing Fusion as a "graphic handler app" and neither think it was made for it in the first place. More, I'm also a Motion user and thus have a specific POV on what are their own particular assets, or common boundaries...
Little () here to tell you I won't write about AE cos' I don't like it, I don't want to work with it, I don't want to work with layers apps in sfx/compositing/set extensions/tracking/etc I'm regularly dealing with anyway, and therefore I don't want to bother you with my Adobe excluded religion-like only allowing PS and AI. Anyway, subscription mode would kill anything in the end :)

I'm still on Fu9 Studio and either make standalone compositions here or use VFX Connect from Resolve but never the ReFusion tab. Once you're used to it, you don't even think about it anymore. Consequently, opening a Fusion comp from Resolve only consists in right-clicking and choosing it.
For the text itself, the small text box can be set a lot wider by moving the parameters tab border, but I have no need there. And I see sliders (mac only I don't know) where needed and rather move text with the UI tool of an xf node...

But above all, it appears to me we're chatting about such a minor Fusion "mission" here, it's sort of confusing...
Maybe it's because BMD sells the idea of "the Motion of FCP", or pretty much because users want to see it this way, especially beginners, but well, why not focus on displace3d, matte control, channelbooleans, shaders, bump maps and textures, keyers, custom tool, pEmitter, fastnoise or pTurbulence ? ;)
Because for me, here are some (5% maybe) of the great stuff in Fusion...

So yes, of course I'd like to see font previews and improvements in some areas, but If I can resign not to have cuda performance in Fusion, i can get around second rate issues and keep on making great stuff in there.. Yes, I love Fusion 8-)
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