Mini Pro Discount or trade-in for Early ATEM Mini adopters

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petera209

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Mini Pro Discount or trade-in for Early ATEM Mini adopters

PostSat Apr 04, 2020 8:29 pm

I have a very significant question. I have purchased multiple Blackmagic products including the ATEM Television Studio. In December I purchased the ATEM Mini to be used for smaller live event shoots. To see Blackmagic offering a superior product that addresses the main drawbacks of the original Mini, so close to the original launch feels a little upsetting. Had I known about a superior version of the hardware being released less than 4 months after the original I would have waited. The reality is that Blackmagic announced the original Mini earlier in last year but I don't know of anyone who was able to get a retail unit until late November at the earliest. By November, Blackmagic had to know they were planning the Pro model. Shouldn't they offer a trade-in for early adopters of the ATEM Mini or a discount for them? If not that, wouldn't it be fair to offer a firmware update that would offer the mutliview feature? As of a month ago, their phone technical support was saying that an upgrade to the software or hardware might give the Mini multiview capabilities. I just think that for some purchasers, we would have paid the extra money for the extra features had we known they would be available. This would be a fair way to deal with us as early adopters. Any thoughts?
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Andrew Martin

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Re: Mini Pro Discount or trade-in for Early ATEM Mini adopte

PostMon Apr 06, 2020 4:26 pm

I very much doubt they will. I'm not aware of any manufacturer that offers similar. Can see why they will take back and be overrun with an 'inferior' product. One of the drawbacks of being an early adopter of any new offering.

You'll need to do as several others are doing now and get it listed on eBay. Given the current situation in the shortage of supply of the mini, there's a good chance it will sell there as people are still looking for a mini now, get it sold before BMD release the next wave of stock into their dealers.

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Roman Pytkin Pekarek

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Re: Mini Pro Discount or trade-in for Early ATEM Mini adopte

PostMon Apr 06, 2020 4:28 pm

YEs .. If U want to trade MINI to MINI PRO , now is good time to sell MINI .. Lot of people need it and they are missing on market ..
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goran diffner

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Re: Mini Pro Discount or trade-in for Early ATEM Mini adopte

PostMon Apr 06, 2020 4:40 pm

That was my first thought too. I do like my Mini though so I´m gonna keep it but it is not making BM Design look good as I see it anyway. To be honest I would not be surprised at all if people does get P... of by this.
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Re: Mini Pro Discount or trade-in for Early ATEM Mini adopte

PostMon Apr 06, 2020 6:46 pm

Yeah for sure sell that mini right now and you still get new price for it.. There is a big shortage of Mini's on the market right now..

If you wait until the Pro hits the market. The price of the mini will drop a bit as demand will be lower for the mini.. ;)

But forget a trade in.. Just sell it and buy the new unit.
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Roman Pytkin Pekarek

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Re: Mini Pro Discount or trade-in for Early ATEM Mini adopte

PostMon Apr 06, 2020 11:56 pm

I was all weekend thinking about sell ATEM MINI and wait (next half year?) for ATEM MINI PRO .. But no .. ATEM MINI PRO is missing next output .. It have only one HDMI output, and U will be use it for Multivewer .. SO when U need program out (for PRORES recording, external streaming encoder, etc) u cant .. So my ATEM MINI stay at home :)
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Re: Mini Pro Discount or trade-in for Early ATEM Mini adopte

PostTue Apr 07, 2020 12:12 am

You record the program output via the usb output. You wouldn't send the hdmi program output to a streaming encoder, because the Mini Pro IS a streaming encoder.

So, if you want to use OBS, etc, use the mini. If you want to stream directly, without obs, use the Pro.

I am going to have both in my kit.
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petera209

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Re: Mini Pro Discount or trade-in for Early ATEM Mini adopte

PostTue Apr 07, 2020 6:40 am

When I wrote the initial post my thought was that there must be something Blackmagic can do for early adopters. If not trade ins, which I understand might not be an ideal. solution, what about a discount for those who. already shelled out $300 for this product? IReally, the simplest solution would be to offer a firmware update that gives the Mini the ability to have. multiview. How hard could that be? The hardware already offers preview that can be activated through the Atem software. Why couldn't they add multiview as an option? I am not even asking for it for free. What if they offered it as an addon for $50-$100 and limit its availability to anyone who owns the original Mini before a specific date. I just think that there is a certain level of unfairness to offer a new version of a product so. close to the release of the original. Mobile companies have learned to offer different varients of their phones at launch so that consumers can make an informed decision on what options they want to pay for. Why shouldn't Blackmagic do the same exact thing? They absolutely had. to. know at the ATEM Minis release that they were going to release a pro version. Had they announced it at the launch of the Mini, I for one would have waited for the Pro. Fair is fair. A company's best customers are those who purchase their products at release. Blackmagic should reward their loyal customers by giving them some level of loyalty back. It's really simple.
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goran diffner

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Re: Mini Pro Discount or trade-in for Early ATEM Mini adopte

PostTue Apr 07, 2020 7:38 am

Lets hope this not will lead to a shortage of market. In these times with people getting laid of in big numbers all over the world a little solidarity goes long ways.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Mini Pro Discount or trade-in for Early ATEM Mini adopte

PostTue Apr 07, 2020 9:00 am

robertsmu wrote:You record the program output via the usb output. You wouldn't send the hdmi program output to a streaming encoder, because the Mini Pro IS a streaming encoder.

So, if you want to use OBS, etc, use the mini. If you want to stream directly, without obs, use the Pro.

The USB out is compressed H264. So the quality is less then what the HDMI output will do.

Also if you need to stream to a custom RTMP server or your own platform the internal streaming encoder is no good for you as it ONLY supports Youtube, Facebook and Twitch right now... :roll: :roll: :roll: I hope they do add RTMP soon. ( Youtube is already RTMP.. Just need to be able to config your own stream link and account.. )
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Roman Pytkin Pekarek

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Re: Mini Pro Discount or trade-in for Early ATEM Mini adopte

PostTue Apr 07, 2020 1:06 pm

robertsmu wrote:You record the program output via the usb output. You wouldn't send the hdmi program output to a streaming encoder, because the Mini Pro IS a streaming encoder.

I need record PRORES program output for final posproduction .. And i need mostly rtmp stream , but sometimes RTSP or Multicast .. And lot of time I need send Program to LED wall, or Projector , or connected TVs ..
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Roman Pytkin Pekarek

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Re: Mini Pro Discount or trade-in for Early ATEM Mini adopte

PostTue Apr 07, 2020 1:07 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:Also if you need to stream to a custom RTMP server or your own platform the internal streaming encoder is no good for you as it ONLY supports Youtube, Facebook and Twitch right now... :roll: :roll: :roll: I hope they do add RTMP soon. ( Youtube is already RTMP.. Just need to be able to config your own stream link and account.. )

BTW : RTMP is dead .. SRT is future .. I hope BMD add SRT soon ..
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Re: Mini Pro Discount or trade-in for Early ATEM Mini adopte

PostWed Apr 08, 2020 1:52 pm

Andrew Martin wrote:You'll need to do as several others are doing now and get it listed on eBay. Given the current situation in the shortage of supply of the mini, there's a good chance it will sell there as people are still looking for a mini now, get it sold before BMD release the next wave of stock into their dealers.


Looking at current pricing of original ATEM Minis, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the OP can even make a profit on the sale of his mint ATEM Mini!
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Markus Hottenrott

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Re: Mini Pro Discount or trade-in for Early ATEM Mini adopte

PostWed Apr 08, 2020 6:24 pm

I have several BMD products and it happens all the time that you buy something great and then something even better comes out. Mostly it follows very short cycles.

So the accusation is, don't be so innovative so that my investment lasts longer? The Mini is exactly what you bought ... it hasn't diminished.

At my dealer I could exchange the current open order of several Mini's into Pro's, which I found great.

In one setup I will soon have a stack of Mini + Pro's making 7 HDMI channels.
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Brett Casadonte

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Re: Mini Pro Discount or trade-in for Early ATEM Mini adopte

PostThu Apr 09, 2020 2:59 am

petera209 wrote:I have a very significant question. I have purchased multiple Blackmagic products including the ATEM Television Studio. In December I purchased the ATEM Mini to be used for smaller live event shoots. To see Blackmagic offering a superior product that addresses the main drawbacks of the original Mini, so close to the original launch feels a little upsetting. Had I known about a superior version of the hardware being released less than 4 months after the original I would have waited. The reality is that Blackmagic announced the original Mini earlier in last year but I don't know of anyone who was able to get a retail unit until late November at the earliest. By November, Blackmagic had to know they were planning the Pro model. Shouldn't they offer a trade-in for early adopters of the ATEM Mini or a discount for them? If not that, wouldn't it be fair to offer a firmware update that would offer the mutliview feature? As of a month ago, their phone technical support was saying that an upgrade to the software or hardware might give the Mini multiview capabilities. I just think that for some purchasers, we would have paid the extra money for the extra features had we known they would be available. This would be a fair way to deal with us as early adopters. Any thoughts?

Look on the bright side, at least Blackmagic Design updated the ATEM Mini quickly... the current ATEM 1 M/E Production 4k has been around for what, about 5 years or so now, with no hardware updates? Same with the 2 M/E? The entire mid-range of BM's ATEM line is SORELY lacking in updates and features vs all the models that have been released in the last two years... I was really hoping to see some updated hardware for the 1 M/E, 2 M/E, and 4 M/E models during Grant's presentation, however it looks like we'll have to wait longer.... holding out hope for an actual "Broadcast" announcement late this month around when NAB would have taken place... It would be great to see BM's mid-range switchers "catch up" with the features of their $300 and $500 model switchers. Consider the following price points / features:

ATEM Mini - $295 (INCLUDES fairlight audio, per-port standards conversion, advanced chroma keyer, no stream encoder)

ATEM Mini Pro - $595 (INCLUDES fairlight audio, per-port standards conversion, advanced chroma keyer, + stream encoder)

ATEM TV Studio HD - $995 (NO fairlight audio, per-port standards conversion, advance chroma keyer, or stream encoder)

ATEM Production Studio 4k - $1,695 - (NO fairlight audio, per-port standards conversion, advance chroma keyer, or stream encoder)

ATEM TV Studio Pro HD - $2,295 (NO fairlight audio, per-port standards conversion, advanced chroma keyer, or stream encoder)

ATEM 1 M/E Production 4k - $2,495 - (NO fairlight audio, per-port standards conversion, advanced chroma keyer, or stream encoder)

ATEM TV Studio Pro 4k - $2,995 (INCLUDES fairlight audio and per-port standards conversion and advanced chroma keyer, no stream encoder)

ATEM 2 M/E Production 4k - $3,995 (NO fairlight audio, per-port standards conversion, advanced chroma keyer, or stream encoder)

ATEM 4 M/E Broadcast 4k - $5,995 (NO fairlight audio, per-port standards conversion, or stream encoder, 5+ years old, does have advanced chroma keyer)

ATEM Constellation 8k - $9,995 (INCLUDES fairlight audio, per-port standards conversion, and advanced chroma keyer, no stream encoder)

Don't get me wrong, I love BM and their gear, but man, it would be really great to see some mid-range product updates in the very near future that bring the 1 M/E, 2 M/E, 4 M/E models up-to-date.

PS: BM did the same thing with the current TV Studio Pro HD and TV Studio Pro 4k model releases... the 4k is far superior to the HD version with only a moderate price differential, and they were only released about 4-6 months apart from what I recall.

PPS: RTMP isn't dead by far... SRT most certainly is the future, but RTMP is a long way from being dead.
Brett Casadonte
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Mini Pro Discount or trade-in for Early ATEM Mini adopte

PostThu Apr 09, 2020 5:06 am

@brett, I think the atems for mid range were ready in design but as all live events are stopped now and streaming is the bomb at this moment and probably they have so much pre orders on that mini. :D

So I guess that the logical step was now to postpone the bigger switchers and have all production lines cranking out atem minis (pro) to get the streaming market up and going which is what most of us and a lot of newbies need right now.

It would be a waste of production resources if they would have announced a whole range of new atems and other boxes that might not been sold in big numbers due too people holding out on purchases of big new equipment.
So from a sales point I would put all my production capacity into minis right now. And release the big atem lineup in September when this virus has died down a bit and events starting to go again. ;)
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Brett Casadonte

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Re: Mini Pro Discount or trade-in for Early ATEM Mini adopte

PostThu Apr 09, 2020 5:56 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:@brett, I think the atems for mid range were ready in design but as all live events are stopped now and streaming is the bomb at this moment and probably they have so much pre orders on that mini. :D

So I guess that the logical step was now to postpone the bigger switchers and have all production lines cranking out atem minis (pro) to get the streaming market up and going which is what most of us and a lot of newbies need right now.

It would be a waste of production resources if they would have announced a whole range of new atems and other boxes that might not been sold in big numbers due too people holding out on purchases of big new equipment.
So from a sales point I would put all my production capacity into minis right now. And release the big atem lineup in September when this virus has died down a bit and events starting to go again. ;)


They probably do have a lot of pre-orders on the mini and mini pro, but unfortunately for us, they don't even come close to meeting our streaming requirements.

And I wholeheartedly disagree with the assessment that the mid-range ATEM lineup isn't for streaming... our company does a tremendous amount of live streaming, and we've never used an ATEM Mini! Our 1 M/E and 2 M/E switchers have been the mainstay of our streaming productions. We also operate a remote production facility and produce streamed content that features remote cameras as well as other remote video integration, and ATEM switchers have formed the backbone of this facility. While having a stream encoder built in to the switcher is really not a game changer for us, having mid-range ATEM switchers with better heat / power management, advanced chroma keying, standards conversion, more video routing options, and more / better multi view capabilities would be a big win for our streaming productions. I'm quite certain that a "Constellation-Lite" at 1/2 the price of the flagship ATEM is on the wish-list for a number of smaller and mid-size streaming producers like myself. Subsequently, I don't believe that it would have been a waste of production at all to introduce and ship new mid-range ATEM's at this point in time... especially since in order to release them the design work would have long since been completed and manufacturing would have likely started in the Jan / Feb time frame in order to have enough inventory to fill their global distribution channel.

From a product and sales standpoint, I would want to make sure that I had a complete line of complementary switching products, not leave a gaping hole in the middle of my product lineup. There are a good many sales to be had on mid-range ATEM switcher updates, even in today's environment. Remote integration broadcast / streaming facilities are expanding, and even more rapidly now. I believe that it is short sighted to think that there is only demand for ATEM mini / mini pro products at this point... yes, production capacity has to be managed to meet demand, however I would argue that there is a significant market for updated mid-range ATEM switchers (which likely have much better profit margins) to support a wide range of streaming applications and use cases. Subsequently, these higher margin items would be a GREAT use of production capacity, proportional to demand for other models in its ATEM lineup. :D

I'm still holding out hope, maybe mistakenly, that we'll see more from BM in the April / May time frame since they typically release much more than just 1 piece of hardware and 2 software updates at NAB. While I have to believe that their mid-range switches are imminent given their dire lack of features for the price vs the rest of the ATEM line up, it would be disappointing to have to wait another six months (or longer!) to be able to get one! ;)
Brett Casadonte
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http://www.globestreammedia.com
Live Production: on-location and REMI using LiveU
ATEM 2 M/E, 1 M/E, TV Studio Pro 4k, BM URSA Broadcast, & Studio/Micro Studio Cameras
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Re: Mini Pro Discount or trade-in for Early ATEM Mini adopte

PostThu Apr 09, 2020 7:29 pm

Even the original ATEM mini are on pre-order in most places and are selling well above retail on ebay such as the demand, no doubt current event having an impact.

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