Timecode - Hyperdeck Studio Mini and RS422

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Mark Simms

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Timecode - Hyperdeck Studio Mini and RS422

PostWed Feb 14, 2018 9:28 am

Hi,

Can the Hyperdeck Studio Mini recorder take in TC via the RS422 port?

I would like to use something like this (item below) to take free run/time of day LTC, convert it to RS422 and then have it on the recorded video file.

http://www.adrielec.com/aec-ubox.htm
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: Timecode - Hyperdeck Studio Mini and RS422

PostThu Feb 15, 2018 10:35 pm

Typically with the RS-422 deck control protocol, the controller reads the timecode from the deck (over RS-422). I'm not sure that it is possible to send continuously generated timecode to the deck using the RS-422 protocol (at least judging from the documentation of the RS-422 supported commands in the HyperDeck manual, there doesn't seem to be a mechanism for this).

The AEC-uBOX device you mentioned is designed for connecting over RS-422 to a video capture card. In that case the video capture card is the controller side (rather than the deck side) of the RS-422 control protocol, so it makes sense for the capture card to be reading timecode over RS-422 (the uBOX device is acting like a virtual deck in this case).

Also note that in the configuration screen on the HyperDeck the only configuration options for the timecode source are input (embedded with the SDI signal) or generated (preset or last clip).

Probably the easiest option in this case is to use an SDI timecode embedder to add the timecode to the SDI signal before it goes into the HyperDeck. For example, the Teranex Mini Audio to SDI is capable of taking LTC timecode and embedding it in the SDI signal.
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videokadr

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Re: Timecode - Hyperdeck Studio Mini and RS422

PostFri Feb 16, 2018 2:35 pm

New ursa broadcast can add TC by the REF input. Lets try add TC by REF input in Hyperdeck Studio Mini.
TC is audio analog signal.
8 cameras OBVAN HD, low prices, working EU area, www.videokadr.pl, videokadr@wp.pl
Jacek Niewadzi
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Gary Adams

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Re: Timecode - Hyperdeck Studio Mini and RS422

PostFri Feb 16, 2018 9:11 pm

It is not possible to "feed" timecode within the RS-422 protocol. The SDI video must already have timecode embedded prior to feeding the Hyperdeck Studio Mini. Some people still put analog LTC timecode audio on track 2 which some software like Resolve can decode, but the best way is to have the TC embedded prior to the SDI input.

Regards, Gary
Gary Adams
Blackmagic Design
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Mark Simms

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Re: Timecode - Hyperdeck Studio Mini and RS422

PostMon Feb 19, 2018 7:54 am

Thanks for your replies everyone.
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Dave Johnstone

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Re: Timecode - Hyperdeck Studio Mini and RS422

PostMon Feb 19, 2018 9:46 am

Hi Gary,

The Sony P2 (RS422) protocol includes a command to preset the VTR's timecode generator
44 04 Time Code Preset
Sets the Time Code Generator value to the time code indicated by DATA-1 thru DATA-4. The data format is as per the 24.31 Cue Up With Data command

Is this not supported by the Hyperdecks?

Regards,

Dave.
Freelance Television Broadcast Engineer
and Software Programmer.
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3.14159

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Re: Timecode - Hyperdeck Studio Mini and RS422

PostMon Mar 16, 2020 12:57 pm

Dave Johnstone wrote:Hi Gary,

The Sony P2 (RS422) protocol includes a command to preset the VTR's timecode generator
44 04 Time Code Preset
Sets the Time Code Generator value to the time code indicated by DATA-1 thru DATA-4. The data format is as per the 24.31 Cue Up With Data command

Is this not supported by the Hyperdecks?

Regards,

Dave.


Hi Dave Johnstone,

Did you found your answer ? I'm interested to do the same.

Regards,
Pierre-Yves
Pierre-Yves MAILLET
ANJOU-IMAGE
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: Timecode - Hyperdeck Studio Mini and RS422

PostMon Mar 16, 2020 11:43 pm

There is a list of RS-422 commands supported by the HyperDeck starting on page 31 of the HyperDeck Manual:
https://documents.blackmagicdesign.com/ ... Manual.pdf

The 0x44 14 (In Data Preset) and 0x44 15 (Out Data Preset) for setting In and Out points for playback are supported.

Unfortunately, the 0x44 04 (Time Code Preset) command is not on the list in the manual, so it is probably not supported.
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Gary Adams

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Re: Timecode - Hyperdeck Studio Mini and RS422

PostTue Mar 17, 2020 1:00 am

Dave is correct. Sorry I didn’t catch this earlier. The timecode preset is not supported over RS-422.

Regards. Gary
Gary Adams
Blackmagic Design
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3.14159

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Re: Timecode - Hyperdeck Studio Mini and RS422

PostTue Mar 17, 2020 6:32 am

Thanks you both for your fast answers.

Have a nice day and take care.

Regards.
Pierre-Yves
Pierre-Yves MAILLET
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shoodtd

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Re: Timecode - Hyperdeck Studio Mini and RS422

PostMon Apr 20, 2020 6:18 pm

I'm going to throw in a couple questions here... I'm working with a HyperDeck Studio, and I am running RS-422 from Crestron to the deck. I am getting proper transport response to the basic commands, but I don't see commands that correspond to the "previous" and "next" buttons on the deck. Neither do I see (in the list of commands/responses in the manual) the responses I'm actually receiving from the deck when I send the transport commands. StatusSense command.
I send a transport command, and I receive \x10\x01\x11
I send StatusSense (\x61\x20\x81\x0D), and I receive \x11\x12\x04\x27
I'm trying to sort out the commands to get the time info (of the recorder's own generated time), but the commands for time are not documented well in the manual (I'm using a device with 2017 FW, thus that manual). Is there a command to get the right time from the recorder? It's a stand-alone system for recording rehearsals in a room with one camera; I just need them to be able to rewind or fast-forward or jog forward or back and get to a place in time that they can note and return to. Actual index markers would be nice, too.
EDIT: In the new software (March, 2020), I see an extension \x81\x03 BMDSeekRelativeClip, which looks like it will do what I need for "previous" & "next" commands. For the StatusData reply, I see I have to pull from the Developer chart. It looks like I'll be translating binary values for the byte to the hex values I need to receive...

Thanks,
Steven
EDIT: //PS: I'm going to start working on getting FW updated while I'm working on this issue...
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Gary Adams

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Re: Timecode - Hyperdeck Studio Mini and RS422

PostMon Apr 20, 2020 11:39 pm

Hello Steven. I think you are wanting the 0x61, 0x0c or Current Time Sense to get the position of the clip.

Regards, Gary
Gary Adams
Blackmagic Design
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shoodtd

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Re: Timecode - Hyperdeck Studio Mini and RS422

PostTue Apr 21, 2020 12:14 am

Thanks for the clarification, Gary.

If I use \x61\x0C... What response should I be looking for? \x78\x00?

Second question: When I send \x61\x20 for StatusSense, I'm not seeing a response. Does the StatusData shove all 9 bytes back, or just 1?

Thanks,
Steven
PS: the relative clip commands doesn't seem to work right off; I may have to do some funny business with programming, as hex strings in Crestron don't usually include negative numbers. There's something weird they use to make them work about which I need to refresh my memory.
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: Timecode - Hyperdeck Studio Mini and RS422

PostTue Apr 21, 2020 1:50 am

shoodtd wrote:In the new software (March, 2020), I see an extension \x81\x03 BMDSeekRelativeClip, which looks like it will do what I need for "previous" & "next" commands.
Note that according to the manual, the clip-based Advanced Media Protocol (AMP) commands over RS-422 are only supported by the HyperDeck Studio Mini and do not apply to the older full rack width HyperDeck Studio models.

I'm not sure if this limitation also applies to the new BMD-specific commands added in HyperDeck firmware 7.1. But given that the release notes for the 7.1 firmware version indicate that it only included changes for the HyperDeck Studio Mini and HyperDeck Extreme Control, it seems likely that these new BMD-specific RS-422 commands are not supported on the other HyperDeck Studio models either.
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shoodtd

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Re: Timecode - Hyperdeck Studio Mini and RS422

PostTue Apr 21, 2020 3:48 pm

Well, that's a drag. The buttons on the front panel don't get replicated in the remote commands, even when they push new software for it. sigh.

Now to figure out if the time readout is worth anything... I have a Tascam audio recorder doing time readout (I'm using mins/seconds, but not frames, to save processing time, since I'm sending it to a tablet), and that's over RS-232. You'd think RS-422 would be about the same ease of function, but there isn't a reply listed in the manual. How do we submit feature requests? Sending a TimeSense command is useless unless I can get a response.
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Gary Adams

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Re: Timecode - Hyperdeck Studio Mini and RS422

PostTue Apr 21, 2020 5:16 pm

Hello Steven. The Current Time Sense returns the current position. Not sure why you are not seeing that. You might also check Ethernet protocol which has a wider command set.

Regards, Gary
Gary Adams
Blackmagic Design
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shoodtd

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Re: Timecode - Hyperdeck Studio Mini and RS422

PostTue Apr 21, 2020 11:28 pm

When I send play (or stop or record), the transport moves as directed, but I only see this returned: \x10\x01\x11
StatusSense and CurrentTimeSense both return this: \x11\x12\x04\x27

I'm not sure what either mean, but they aren't in the book.

I guess I'll give the Ethernet stuff a try, as the RS-422 doesn't seem to be working right. Sigh.
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Gary Adams

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Re: Timecode - Hyperdeck Studio Mini and RS422

PostWed Apr 22, 2020 12:02 am

Hello Steven. Sorry for any confusion. So maybe you should look for the Sony 9 Pin serial protocol. We use a subset but maybe their doc will explain it better. It may be found on the internet. The return from Play and stop is just an acknowledge. The return from current time sense is the timecode but it needs to be extracted from the hex data. This is not ascii text on RS-422. It is a programming protocol to keep communication simple and fast. This has been used since the 70s on very old computers frame accurately. But if you want a more user friendly method, the Ethernet protocol is better.

Regards, Gary
Gary Adams
Blackmagic Design
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shoodtd

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Re: Timecode - Hyperdeck Studio Mini and RS422

PostWed Apr 22, 2020 8:17 pm

The TimeSense response I posted is not timecode at all. It's the hex code for something with its checksum at the end. I recognize that much, and regardless of where I am in the timeline, that's the response I get... I may come back to that issue later, but I'm trying to get a Crestron program written to control the machine that will make using one easier to implement in other programs later.

Having set RS422 aside in favor of the Ethernet protocol, I was still at a loss on how to actually get time readouts. It appears the time-specific commands weren't implemented until version 1.11, and I'm limited to 1.8, since I have an SSD-based unit. It looks like there is a way to get timecode position by continually sending the "transport info" command. The time is buried in the response string, but as long as I get the parsing right, I should be able to get it reliably.

Thanks,
Steven
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: Timecode - Hyperdeck Studio Mini and RS422

PostWed Apr 22, 2020 10:34 pm

Here's a link to the Sony RS-422 9-pin protocol documentation in case it is helpful:
http://forums.stardraw.com/Attachment198.aspx

The Sony document is quite a bit more detailed than the HyperDeck documentation, although the HyperDeck manual is probably useful for determining what commands are supported as not everything in the Sony protocol is implemented on the HyperDecks.

I know that it is definitely possible to read timecode information from the HyperDecks over RS-422 (even with the older firmware) as this works on various hardware RS-422 VTR/DDR controllers that display the current timecode from the deck during recording or playback. I'm not 100% sure what RS-422 commands they are using for this though.

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