Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

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Martin Myrick

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Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostSun Sep 23, 2012 4:46 pm

I am new to this forum and I am excited about the MFT addition because I own the GH2 and GH1. I have been watching the release of the news and footage concerning the GH3 and I'm torn between it and the BMC, but only due to the pricing structure. I love the ability to capture raw with the BMC, but quite honestly I wouldn't be using it for that, the ProRes workflow is much more desirable for my situation and I think that will be the case for most MFT buyers who are moving from the GH2. For me, the picture quality of the BMC is superior to the GH3, but the GH3 may be good enough and who knows how good it will be after it is hacked. I'm not saying that the BMC package isn't worth the money, it is, but for independents every dollar matters. If Blackmagic will decouple the BMC from the software package and offer the camera for between $1,500-$1,800, it will be a no brainer, and I believe they will convert many people like myself who are looking at purchasing the $1300 GH3 into customers for the BMC. In addition, after getting use to the BMC I believe many would then look at acquiring Davinci as their production values and successes begin to climb. Please consider this option!
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Sean Tyler

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Re: Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostSun Sep 23, 2012 11:16 pm

Wow, this is really the cherry on top... I've often wondered if they introduced this camera at twice the price if there would be any less interest. Sure people looking at the mkIII may consider it too big a price jump but I've seen all the the footage and the images coming out of this camera and based on that alone this would be my first choice of any of the sub twenty grand cameras. I can deal with the "issues" people continue to harp on, like batteries and wide lens options, because the color science and dynamic range is undeniable...
Sean Tyler
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Nick Smith

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Re: Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 12:15 am

I don't think that taking out all the software would actually make the camera any cheaper. From what I can figure, you're only paying for how much the camera costs to make (plus whatever profits Black Magic are making), and the free copy of resolve is actually a completely free bonus. The reason it costs more than a GH3 is simply because it's a better camera than the GH3.
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Nick Bedford

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Re: Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 12:22 am

Considering the cost of Resolve 9 is only a CD and a USB dongle, I doubt that the price is actually including Resolve's standalone price. That is the beauty and curse of a freely copy-able product. It just sweetens the deal so that more people consider the physical product that is really being sold.
Nick Bedford, Photographer
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CraigG

Re: Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 12:38 am

The software is a generous bonus not a contributing factor to the conservative cost of a remarkable camera.

The video capabilities of still cameras such as the GH3 :x , Mark III :x , A99 :x , D600 :x , D800 :x , 6D :x cannot be compared to the BMCC :shock: , it is in a league of its own. Set your target on the BMCC and forget the cartel toys.
Last edited by CraigG on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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CaptainHook

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Re: Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 12:44 am

Haha.. "Arri, please match the price of your Alexa to the BMCC, you'd get way more customers, thanks."
**Any post by me prior to Aug 2014 was before i started working for Blackmagic**
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Martin Myrick

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Re: Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 5:57 am

Wow, its always amazing to find such genius on these forums, but I can see we're already dealing with a cult mentality, not surprising. I really don't care what you think Captain Hook. If you don't ask for something in this life then you probably won't get it and I was asking for a consideration from Blackmagic not for your worthless opinion. I never join these forums just because of having to deal with the proliferation of fanboys such as yourself. Your anonymity allows you the courage to make snide comments here, but I'm more than certain it would be quite lacking face to face.
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Stephanie Hueter

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Re: Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 8:01 pm

Let's please keep all discussions pleasant and civil. If this discussion continues with any more incivility, we'll be forced to lock the thread.

- Stephanie
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paul schefz

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Re: Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 10:32 pm

Stephanie Hueter wrote:Let's please keep all discussions pleasant and civil. If this discussion continues with any more incivility, we'll be forced to lock the thread.

- Stephanie


YES! please lock the thread now before we all get contaminated with this stupidity....
i love how "the camera really would be a no brainer at 1500-1800$"...or even better: how about 500$! the camera would be a steal at 5000$...without software....which is probably why it is not actually shipping yet and nobody knows when it will ship!
if you don't want to shoot raw, why even consider the BMC? also: i am pretty sure panasonic sells more gh3s to people who use it as a stills camera....
btw: i am not a fanboy....actually pretty much gave up on this...

just really bugs me when people start asking for full frame and even lower price before the thing even ships.....crazy....
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Martin Myrick

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Re: Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 11:55 pm

I find it amazing that anyone here would try to censor my ability to ask Blackmagic for a pricing consideration. I don't care though and I will ask it again. For the guys at Blackmagic, besides allowing for the use of MFT lenses, I assume the reason for adding the MFT to your line is to go after GH2 users. Several GH2 user have expressed the same idea I have already asked for above. Many of us would not be interested in switching to a Raw workflow at this point, but love the look of the camera with ProRes. The quality with ProRes is amazing, just look at Philip Blooms demo. If you debundle the BMC package to sell the camera by itself even for around $2,000, you would change the minds of many of who are considering the GH3. Another justification for doing so is that users of the BMC with Canon mount are probably more likely to use Raw, than those who use MFT. In addition, the Canon mount allows for the use of electronic lenses while the MFT mount lacks this feature and is manual only, eliminating the use of electronic MFT lenses. This situation could provide even further justification for allowing it to be sold separately at the lower price. For those who think that Davinci is just a bonus and not really worth the thousand dollar asking price, bundled or not, you don't know Davinci. For those who think this is stupidity and want to shut this thread down, get a life. This is a free forum and I will ask what ever questions I feel like.

CraigG

Re: Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostTue Sep 25, 2012 1:38 am

Trumpetman,

With some respect, your suggestion and logic are both unreasonable. Most companies would have only bundled the 'lite' version of the software; in effect, that, to some extent, represents the cost of the software component inclusion in the BMCC package (if any), not the imaginary $1000 you appear to envision. Inclusion of the full version of Resolve is a remarkable decision by BM for which we are grateful, not to mention or understate the abilities of the BMCC itself and the pricing structure that makes such equipment available to us mere mortals.

:!: The BMCC is not competing with the GH2/3 intentionally or otherwise. There is NO comparison...period!
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Mark de Jeu

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Re: Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostTue Sep 25, 2012 2:22 am

Trumpetman,

Not trying to gang up on you here, but part of the confusion might be caused by your assumption that BlackMagic released the MFT mount to appeal to the GH2/GH3 crowd. This is not the reason for the MFT mount. Refer back the Philip Bloom review for his take on why the MFT mount makes more sense for the BMCC than the EF mount.

The GH3 looks like a pretty special camera, producing an excellent picture quality, and those who are not able to afford the BMCC should feel no shame in picking the GH3 for their filmmaking needs. That could be a smart move if you decide to couple the GH3 with the right lenses and later add the BMCC to your kit when the budget allows.

- Mark
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Pete Proniewicz-Brooks

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Re: Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostTue Sep 25, 2012 8:52 am

Trumpet an, no-ones trying to censor you. They are just explaining why removing the software wouldn't affect the price anywhere near as much as you think it will.

No-ones saying the software isn't worth $1000 either, just that its not contributing that much to the cameras price.

There is a solution to get a cut price BMCC using the logic you are using. Buy the camera sell on the software and dongle. Even with a second hand markdown you'll end up better off than the price BM would charge without Resolve.
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John Waldorff

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Re: Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostTue Sep 25, 2012 2:08 pm

Im more than willing to pay the price Blackmagic asks for this camera.
This camera is awesome.
I have mine already preordered cant wait.
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Mark Wilhelm

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Re: Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostTue Sep 25, 2012 2:43 pm

This discussion could have gotten a lot worse, but it seems the last few responses are incredibly polite.

I'd like to remind anyone not using their real full name as their username on these forums that you're encouraged to change your username as soon as possible in order to promote authenticity and civility.

Gregg Bond

Re: Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostWed Sep 26, 2012 12:50 am

Anyone that thinks the BMCC is overpriced needs to watch this video.

http://gizmodo.com/5945408/watch-the-bl ... eo-quality
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Noel Sterrett

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Re: Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostWed Sep 26, 2012 12:08 pm

There are compelling business reasons for bundling the camera and Resolve. The only problem I see with the bundle is when I want to buy two or more cameras. I may only need one copy of Resolve, so can I sell the second copy?

Perhaps two cameras and one Resolve for $5k?

Cheers.
Admit One Pictures
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Toby Angwin

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Re: Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostFri Sep 28, 2012 3:33 am

Trumpet, I think you have it a bit wrong. I feel sure the choice to offer the MFT version is far more about lens choice and listening to users requests than going after GH2 users.
Toby Angwin - Director/Compositor

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xoce

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Re: Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostSat Sep 29, 2012 5:08 am

Trumpetman wrote:I find it amazing that anyone here would try to censor my ability to ask Blackmagic for a pricing consideration. I don't care though and I will ask it again. For the guys at Blackmagic, besides allowing for the use of MFT lenses, I assume the reason for adding the MFT to your line is to go after GH2 users.


With all due respect Trumpetman, the reason many of us are having problems with this thread is because you're pretty much missing the point with almost all of your suggestions and request and still request for leniency to present your case.

Case in point the quote above. BM has stated that the main purpose for the new BMCC MFT announcement was to extend the variety of lenses that the BMCC could use, specifically PL professional cinema glass, an option that many are asking for, and NOT to attract the "GH2/3" crowd. This camera is WORTH multiple times more than what BM is asking for it, so suggesting that BM lower the price even more is almost insulting, I hope you can understand that.

edit: Toby just just got to the point quicker than me. :-)

Obviously you have the right to express your opinion, and you have. Now us, the rest of the user base also have the right to respond to your message and judge the request on its merits. And we have. This camera is NOT for everyone. A cinema camera is a unique beast that requires a certain level of cinematic knowledge to operate properly. The BMCC has its flaws, but the price point is certainly NOT one of them.
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Margus Voll

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Re: Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostSat Sep 29, 2012 7:42 am

I see mft as the doorway to PL lenses more than using gh lenses.

Removing resolve from bundle is not so smart to me as you can make what ever
workflow out of it with ease. All adobe based workflows are too complicated
and time consuming. Having Resolve with camera as an extra does not make camera
cheaper if you remove it you just get more with the camera. Building a camera
is really complex task in technical sense why one would like to get it cheap?
We want it to be top quality not for free. You can have cheap with something like canon 600.

For me beautiful part is that one does not have to buy this camera as if it does not
meet they'r needs. you can go with alexa red or cheaper canon or panasonic solutions.
so many options to choose from.

For me it is just fantastic as i can get my own camera setup for lets say 250€ a day
as alexa is 1200€ so it is dirt cheap :) and good as hell compared to canon setups
we had to use for small stuff. (i meant here the whole setup not only camera body)

so coming down in price does not give anything in my mind for now.
maybe it will happen in some years when newer models will be released
but until then it does not seem reasonable. camera is not out yet for most users
and already start complaining for the price does not seem right.
Margus Voll, C.S.I.

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margus@iconstudios.eu
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Resolve 15 W10 (i9-7940x 14c OC @4.4 Ghz, 2x Titan Pascal, 128 gb ram)
Resolve 12.5.4 OSX
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Toby Angwin

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Re: Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 10:19 am

Noel Sterrett wrote:There are compelling business reasons for bundling the camera and Resolve. The only problem I see with the bundle is when I want to buy two or more cameras. I may only need one copy of Resolve, so can I sell the second copy?

Actually having one resolve dongle just living in your kit bag would be fantastic as you could leave one permanently at your base and still be able to use it anywhere else.... I may have just talked myself into buying a second resolve license!
Toby Angwin - Director/Compositor

http://www.soupkitchenfilms.net
@soupkitchen on Twitter
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bhook

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Re: Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 12:49 pm

Dongles are so 1980s. ;)
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Bill Rich

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Re: Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 5:25 pm

Hey Trumpetman.. Your question is completely valid. And it's for BMD to answer you.

Just FYI. the BMCC MFT mount is passive.. While your Lumix MFT lenses will fit on the camera.. There is no way to control the aperture unless a third party adapter manufacturer makes a MFT=MFT adapter with an aperture ring (which could possibly happen)

The GH3 seems to be an impressive looking camera and I'm sure it will definitely sell well to the DSLR crowd both for stills and video. Heck I might pick one up to replace my 60D!

Regards,
Bill
Bill Rich
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Noel Sterrett

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Re: Please decouple Blackmagic MFT to match GH3 pricing.

PostSun Sep 30, 2012 6:57 pm

Toby Angwin wrote:Actually having one resolve dongle just living in your kit bag would be fantastic as you could leave one permanently at your base...

While the other one falls out of your kit bag and is lost somewhere on the set. :)

Cheers.
Admit One Pictures
Ubuntu 20.04 | Asus Z10 Xeon*2 32G | GTX 1080 8G | Resolve Studio 16 | Desktop Video 11

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