Red Komodo or G2

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michaeldhead

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostThu May 28, 2020 8:26 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:And still no footage at all from RED?


https://nofilmschool.com/new-red-komodo ... -cold-open
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostThu May 28, 2020 8:47 pm

Those samples show about nothing. Let's wait for "real samples".
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Dmitry Shijan

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostFri May 29, 2020 9:09 pm

It was a test posted on reduser. I guess this is a Xyla 20 stops test chart. Both cameras seems like have 13-14 stops and next goes into noise and FPN recovered from shadows. And this is downsampled from 8K. Imagine how it look at 1:1 pixel.
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Nothing special here, i can do same 20+stops of dynamic range recovered from shadows even with BMMCC in native HD resolution :)

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Dmitry Shijan

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostMon Jun 01, 2020 4:02 am

And it is really tiny. Only a fraction larger than rigged BMMCC in cage.

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Dmitry Shijan

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostMon Jun 08, 2020 10:47 am

First decent test footage. Colors seems ok, greens are green. But nothing special...


Also here is someones 20GB R3D file archive with extreme low light underexspose tests. https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A ... ZJLslIePNA At ISO2000 even 6K downscaled to HD shadows are noisy. ISO12800 is useless. If you uncheck special Chroma NR option in R3D RAW, noise will look way more stronger and uglier. I guess it is very nice result for Global Shutter camera.
Not sure why, but i was unable to remove strong noise with Temporal NR in Resolve. Temporal NR in Resolve just ignored that noise at any setting. Maybe it is something specific to R3D files?
Anyway temporal NR always works way better with Ursa/BMMCC DNG, probably because dual gain sensors produce better noise structure that is easier to recognize.

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Dmitry Shijan

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostMon Jun 08, 2020 1:02 pm

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Not exact same ISO settings and setup but you can compare it to my BMMCC tests
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostMon Jun 08, 2020 3:17 pm

After seeing some of those early samples I'm not impressed. Maybe it will improve with time. We will also get more details about real usability etc. so maybe it will end up been a decent option for some people.
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John Brawley

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostMon Jun 08, 2020 3:24 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:After seeing some of those early samples I'm not impressed. Maybe it will improve with time. We will also get more details about real usability etc. so maybe it will end up been a decent option for some people.


I think it's very early days. It's a little strange that they're letting this kind of footage out there, but it's certainly creating "talk".

I think that it's also hard to compare a global shutter sensor as well, especially one that's brand new.

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Dmitry Shijan

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostMon Jun 08, 2020 3:39 pm

Seems this is the answer why Noise Reduction don't works. In original size noise structure consists of extremely large particles. It looks like 8mm film grain :). But same time downscaled from 6K to HD it looks nice.
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Dmitry Shijan

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostMon Jun 08, 2020 4:28 pm

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Dmitry Shijan

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostMon Jun 08, 2020 5:31 pm

Last edited by Dmitry Shijan on Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostMon Jun 08, 2020 5:40 pm

Dmitry Shijan wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuGP48SQUNk


Not convincing at all.
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Dmitry Shijan

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostMon Jun 08, 2020 9:29 pm

Pros to get KOMODO:
- Global shutter (better motion look, no photo flash artifacts, nice looking rotating wheels and propellers)
- Seems decent dynamic range.
- Seems like well calibrated colors.
- Build-in OLPF filter
- No more pattern flares from OLPF filter (well known problem in all older RED camera models)
- High framerates in crop modes.

Cons to get KOMODO:
- By purchasing RED stuff you support RED totalitarian policy and patent aggression against compressed in-camera RAW recording in other camera brands.
- Rather high cost for crash cam.
- Require SDI monitor only.
- Grainy footage structure, but on lower ISO noise looks not too digital.
- Seems like 3200 to 6400 ISO is real life limit.
- May look too grainy in 2K crop mode.
- Canon batteries are high cost and not too popular.
- Battery life.
- Connectors at rear-bottom side are hard to reach. For same reason it is impossible to connect V-Mount battery brick too close to camera body.
- No quick buttons and Record trigger from operator side.
- 22s. boot time.
- UI design feels outdated and overloaded.

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Eugenia Loli

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostMon Jun 08, 2020 9:56 pm

Perfect summary Dmitry. By going RED, and while I prefer their colors to BMD's, you'd support crazy patent litigations and other online aggressive behaviors (I had them and their goonies come after me in 2009, when I was running back then a rather popular video blog). Personally, I'd stay with the bmpcc 4k for when I need raw, but I will get a Canon R6 before the end of the year for most of my normal needs. I like the Canon colors, it's full frame, it's not expected to cost more than $2k, and the new body has IBIS, and AF that works (plus 10bit video, uncropped). Only downside is that it has a bit less DR than Sony sensors or RED. But it makes the most sense for me atm, to shoot short films, music videos, and a spec for a feature film consideration. I don't see me getting either a Komodo or a G2 though.
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rick.lang

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostTue Jun 09, 2020 1:03 am

Seems Komodo has no problem producing greens; even if there’s no green in the shot, just raise the ISO and voilá you have green everywhere. Agree it’s very early days and I’m sure this will look better later than his year.
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Que Thompson

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostTue Jun 09, 2020 1:37 am

If Komodo looks like the best Red there is (8k?), I’d still rather have the Blackmagic version.

All I want is my Pocket 4K in a box.
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Jack Fairley

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostTue Jun 09, 2020 3:52 am

rick.lang wrote:Seems Komodo has no problem producing greens; even if there’s no green in the shot, just raise the ISO and voilá you have green everywhere.

This must be the RED look everyone is always talking about... NO THANK YOU
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WahWay

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostTue Jun 09, 2020 6:59 am

I prefer the Canon look. Lets hope the R5 don't have the problems the 1DxIII is having.
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Howard Roll

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostTue Jun 09, 2020 6:10 pm

If BM is listening, I'd trade any one of these.....

Dmitry Shijan wrote:Pros to get KOMODO:
- Global shutter (better motion look, no photo flash artifacts, nice looking rotating wheels and propellers)
- Seems decent dynamic range.
- Seems like well calibrated colors.
- Build-in OLPF filter
- No more pattern flares from OLPF filter (well known problem in all older RED camera models)
- High framerates in crop modes.


....for all of these.

Dmitry Shijan wrote:Cons to get KOMODO:
- By purchasing RED stuff you support RED totalitarian policy and patent aggression against compressed in-camera RAW recording in other camera brands.
- Rather high cost for crash cam.
- Require SDI monitor only.
- Grainy footage structure, but on lower ISO noise looks not too digital.
- Seems like 3200 to 6400 ISO is real life limit.
- May look too grainy in 2K crop mode.
- Canon batteries are high cost and not too popular.
- Battery life.
- Connectors at rear-bottom side are hard to reach. For same reason it is impossible to connect V-Mount battery brick too close to camera body.
- No quick buttons and Record trigger from operator side.
- 22s. boot time.
- UI design feels outdated and overloaded.



Good Luck
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Dmitry Shijan

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostTue Jun 09, 2020 6:30 pm

Also people complain that komodo blows strong air steam directly to your eye when camera used on shoulder :)
Not sure about Ursa, but BMMCC also slightly blows air into operator eye. I guess it is because commonly used industrial coolers designed to work in one direction. If it possible i can recommend organize air flow in opposite way in future cameras.
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Eugenia Loli

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostTue Jun 09, 2020 8:37 pm

I graded a sample Komodo R3D, using a desaturated film look often found in indie movies, and my special sauce of 35mm texture (tutorial on my youtube channel if anyone wants it), and I got to say, it was rather easy getting to that point. I personally find Arri the easiest to grade, then Canon, then RED.

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Robert Castiglione

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostThu Jun 11, 2020 12:38 am

I know it is just a camera but I find it difficult to support Red anymore by buying their products though I do feel ambivalent about it. They definitely deserve kudos for the disruption that they bought to a sclerotic and overpriced digital camera market. It is difficult to overstate the excitement generated by the Red One and what a crazy ride that was if you were part of it. I have also really enjoyed shooting with the Epic camera for some years. I got to know that camera very well and it produced a lovely softer image I liked - though it was essentially a daylight camera and was pretty useless beyond iso 1000.

But then there was the Red culture - aggression on a number of fronts, calling a camera "the weapon", naming their evf "the bomb" (and thereby causing all sorts of problems if you were travelling through airports), skull and crossbones crap, just not caring about audio - the cam did not even have line level in, massively overpriced media which cost the price of a small car - to put it in perspective one Red SSD cost more than double the cost of an entire bmpcc 4k camera(that was a pretty shocking revelation that it was just off the shelf). A lot of independent filmmakers got drawn into the whole thing and spent a LOT of money on gear that they could ill afford!
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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostThu Jun 11, 2020 1:33 am

Komodo looks interesting. Motion cadence is very filmic, much like other REDs and Alexa. The skin tones and color looks like early RED Epic Dragon though. I'm not impressed. I think that with Blackmagic Pocket 6K being so affordable, I don't see the point of Komodo. Heck, the Pockets at least have a lovely sounding preamp with their XLR input. And with Juan Melara's ARRI 709 LUTs, the Pockets cut great with Alexa. I even used his LUTs with Ursa Mini footage and found them to be the best out there in mimicking the Alexa.
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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostThu Jun 11, 2020 2:13 am

If you love that softer image of the Epic, Robert, just get the RAWlite filter for the BM camera and you'll have very much the same. Other than Sony, Red was always on the conservative side of OLPF filtering. Some criticized them for it and even claimed they are lying about the resolution – until Alexa came along.

I honor Red for the same reasons as you and also despise them just the same.

But regarding losing a lot of money, think of Sony: how much was the F23 they advertised for cinema and how soon came the F35? That was the arrogant market disrupted by Red!

If they also became arrogant now, they deserve disruption by BM.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostSun Jun 14, 2020 8:06 pm

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread ... ost1901436

more RED crap. I think RED will be new Nokia if they keep their current spirit. Times have changed and they are not going to win this with such an approach.
If you have great footage it will always speak for itself. Komodo's early footage is far from it. Their GUI looks "strange" as well (no idea what was the main design goal?).
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Robert Castiglione

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostMon Jun 15, 2020 1:13 am

Hi Uli

Thanks for your post. I have done a bit of research on rawlite and looks interesting. A bit daunting to install?

Also I read from one user that it gives a slight green cast to the image. Is that your experience?

Cheers

Rob
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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostMon Jun 15, 2020 5:21 am

It's pretty easy if you follow his videos, you just need a very clean environment.
You may need to add shims, I needed quite a bit to make my Sigma 18-35mm parfocal again.

And then, no IR filter is totally free of some filtering of the longest wavelengths in red too, it's not possible.
But you can easily compensate for the tiny bit of loss in grading. It's the same in all cameras that are blocking IR better than BM, Sony for example. Manufacturers always need to decide for some balance here, and BM decided for a bit less IR filtering, just like Red in their earlier OLPFs. Matter of taste and use cases, I'd say.

I wouldn't want to miss my RAWlite any more.
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Que Thompson

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostThu Jul 23, 2020 5:21 pm

The Red Komodo is looking very unimpressive so far. Especially for the price.

Has anyone seen any good footage from it?
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rick.lang

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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostThu Jul 23, 2020 6:32 pm

That’s what struck me as well; I like Komodo 6K on paper, but the image isn’t inspiring. And I’m afraid I lost interest once I saw the UMP12K as I do believe it will make a very popular BMPCC8K within another year.
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Que Thompson

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Red Komodo or G2

PostThu Jul 23, 2020 7:36 pm

I’m also 12k all the way. New form factor for me though. I’m waiting, saving my pennies. Hopefully for an 8k pocket with the new sensor.
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Re: Red Komodo or G2

PostThu Jul 23, 2020 9:18 pm

rick.lang wrote:That’s what struck me as well; I like Komodo 6K on paper, but the image isn’t inspiring. And I’m afraid I lost interest once I saw the UMP12K as I do believe it will make a very popular BMPCC8K within another year.


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